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WHS Problem

J

Justintoxicated

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 10, 2002
Messages
14,522
So I finaly had a hard drive die. Once I fugred out which drive it was (refering to which physical drive) I took it out, put in a replacement, recovered the data to it. Set the drive letter to what the old drive was.

Ran the backup

WHS complains that a drive is missing... Well Duh! Ok so I guess I need to re-configure the backup to remove the old drive and add the new one.

All I get is this error.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/justintoxicated1981/Computer/Capture.jpg

Obviously the computer is on the network. In fact, I'm accessing the WHS console from that machine so the message makes no sense! If it can't access the drive, well, thats what I'm trying to re-configure! Is the only solution to remove the computer and then backup everything again? I really dont want to wait 24+ hours for everthing to be backed back up....And thats also a huge risk.

In fact if I try to remove the computer the next message is that it cannot because it is currently connected to the windows home server....

Anyone?
 
I unplugged the hard drive that I had restored to.

Now WHS just hangs when I select configure backups for this PC...

Anyone? Do I need to re-install WHS?

Restarted WHS and now it is back to the origional problem... it says it cant access my computers drives although I can clearly hear it spinning them up. It says it might be because it is not able to access it through the network b ut that does not make sense because I'm using My PC to open the WHS Console so it is obviously connected!
 
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i think the following is correct...

in WHS when a hard drive "goes missing" WHS assumes that the hard drive will return, such as a USB hard drive being unplugged etc

if the hard drive has failed and will not return use the console to inform WHS that the hard drive will not return

WHS will update the tombstones on the system drive to remove orphan links to the failed drive

does that make sense?
 
You need to "Remove" the missing drive via the Server Storage tab. WHS will scream at you that you will loose data, but proceed. When WHS finishes removing the drive, it'll be happy again.
 
cavediver said:
You need to "Remove" the missing drive via the Server Storage tab. WHS will scream at you that you will loose data, but proceed. When WHS finishes removing the drive, it'll be happy again.
Click to expand...

The drive did not die on the WHS boxc though, it died on the PC? It died, I replaced it, restored it... Now it will not backup or let me re-configure the backups.
 
Justintoxicated said:
The drive did not die on the WHS boxc though, it died on the PC? It died, I replaced it, restored it... Now it will not backup or let me re-configure the backups.
Click to expand...

ahhh, i was confused from the first post as to what is happening.

Did you restore your PC using the WHS?
Also try using the second to last restore point or an earlier restore point before you knew of any HDD issues.
If the computers HDD died or messed up during a backup operation the backup image may not be completely intact and could be causing your issues.

Also try running this from the PC thats messing up.
C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\Discovery.exe
 
nitrobass24 said:
ahhh, i was confused from the first post as to what is happening.

Did you restore your PC using the WHS?
Also try using the second to last restore point or an earlier restore point before you knew of any HDD issues.
If the computers HDD died or messed up during a backup operation the backup image may not be completely intact and could be causing your issues.

Also try running this from the PC thats messing up.
C:\Program Files\Windows Home Server\Discovery.exe
Click to expand...

Yes I removed the dead drive and restored it using WHS. The PC is working fine now but WHS isnt. it keeps complaining about the missing hard drive durring backups, and will not allow me to re-configure the backup. The drive may have died durring backup, I don't know as the error in the backup log was that the drive went missing. However I restored from a previous restore point that was solid.

The problem is it is looking for a drive that is no longer there. However it won't let me run the backup configuration to tell it to stop looking for it!

Is my only option to remove the computer from the list of backups then re-backup all 5TB of data over the network? Not only would that be risky but this is not practical to do every time a Hard drive dies. This is my first time (other than a practice test) I had to actually replace a drive, and so far I'm not impressed...

I ran that command and it said I'm all setup but I still can't get WHS to allow me to configure this machine. It tells me it is not connected tot he network or cannot access my hard drives when obviously it is doing both...
 
What about

Client PC:
Unistall WHS connector.
Reinstall WHS connector.

Then on the WHS:
Instead of reconfiguring the current PC, try adding a New computer to backup.
Configure the new computer, perform the full 5tb backup.....yes this will take a long time.

If it works then you can delete the old PC backups and essentially start over without placing any data at risk while doing so.

Just curious, why do you have 5tb on a client PC if you are running WHS? and how is it setup?
 
Nitro, what other way would I have this configured?

With large amounts of data backup is needed, thats pretty much ALL I'm use the WHS box for. So it has a large drive pool for backups.

Are you saying there is a way to put all the data on the server and still have it backed up?

I'd like to find some other uses for the server, but I can't think of any. It would be cool if I could use it as my media server, instead of my main PC, but then how would the data be backed up?

I'm sure I can remove the PC and re-transfer all the data (assuming there is enough space it could be done quickly) but why did it break int he first place? I almost feel like I need to find something besides WHS to do my backups if this is required. There MUST be a better solution?
 
Well from doing several PC restores....at least 50 from a WHS, and I can tell you that I have not once had a problem with it.

If you have 5TB of data on your PC/media server, then you obviously have more than that on your WHS.
Why dont you copy all that to your WHS, take out your 5tb raid from the pc and put those drives in the WHS.
You can then use WHS backup server function or add them to the storage pool and turn on duplication.

This way all your pc has is a single drive for the OS/apps, and you backup will take 20minutes opposed the hours its taking now.

Also you can just have the WHS running 24/7 opposed to both running.


I see you point...in that this should not have happened...and your right it shouldnt have, and ive never seen it, obviously others havent as they have zero advice for ya.
Its obviously not common .

But yea I cant believe you don't have your data on the WHS.
 
BTW did you ever get your AHCI drivers figured out?
that was you right?
 
Yea nitro that was me, I completed re-installed WHS from a flashdrive with the AHCI drivers on it already. What a huge PITA that was. I refuse to mess with that flash drive now it's a good easy way to re-install again if I ever need to.

I suppose I see your point, however I'm not running raid-5, and I don't have a raid card. Also the WHS box is almost full of 1TB drives due to the case it's in and ports on the MB being used up.

My Main PC is a stacker, so plenty of space in that one. In fact it would make a better storage server than the WHS box, however theres no way my Thermochill is going to fit in my WHS Antec Mini's case.

So I really can't add all the drives to the WHS box, which in the end is the reason I have it setup as I do. Someday maybe things will change though because I would prefer to just run an OS on my main PC, but I don't think it is possible right now.
 
I tried to remove the computer from the console today using my laptop. By removing the computer WHS automaticaly deletes ALL backups so this is no longer an option. I really need to get my backups running again I have alot of data that is currently not backed up due to this issue.
 
Justintoxicated said:
I tried to remove the computer from the console today using my laptop. By removing the computer WHS automaticaly deletes ALL backups so this is no longer an option. I really need to get my backups running again I have alot of data that is currently not backed up due to this issue.
Click to expand...

Use the addin WHS BDBB to backup your backup database before you remove the computer.
 
cavediver said:
Use the addin WHS BDBB to backup your backup database before you remove the computer.
Click to expand...

Interesting but I cannot get this plug-in to work.
It says the Size of the Database to be backed up is 2184GB
The only target is Server_Storage.

I get a message that there is not enough free space.

is my only optionthen to remove all the backups (Pray nothing dies) then create new backups? Or re-install WHS?
 
Well, I really hate WHS now. I accidentaly deleted about 60GB of data during a slowdown (you know where you delete one folder but it actually deletes something else cause of lag?

Went onto WHS to restore this data and while it was mounting the image I had a power drop.

I use 2 APC UPS's but they never work that well, the sudden power drop always makes my vista machine go to sleep. The WHS box seemed to stay up but would no longer allow me to mount the drive. I had to hard reset it and now it will not even start back up :(

I think I'm going to have to re-install and lose all my backups (and data that I deleted) because WHS SUCKS!

Now is there a way I can re-install WHS without losing all my backups?

Ahh read I can just put the disk in and re-install, however thats going to mean I have to completely make a new boot disk because of the AHCI issues. The one I currently have to get around lack oh AHCI support will auto re-install WHS.

Honestly this is the most unreliable system ever! I'm thinking Raid-1 is a better backup solution at this point...I'm just going to cut my losses for now and re-install while I look for a new backup solution.


EDIT: Ok so I started the re-install. Apparently my thumb drive has become corrupted and was missing some OS file. However whatever it seems to have re-installed allowed me to book back into WHS! Of course non of the computers are now showing up but I am able to recover the lost data.

Not sure weather or not I trust this current install though. Should I completely re-install WHS?
 
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You can't blame WHS for an issue that sounds like it was caused from a power sag via your UPS's.

Given your luck so far, I think you should have a second WHS system to back up your primary WHS :)

I know you knew this was coming.....Raid 1 isn't a backup ;)
 
Neb said:
You can't blame WHS for an issue that sounds like it was caused from a power sag via your UPS's.

Given your luck so far, I think you should have a second WHS system to back up your primary WHS :)

I know you knew this was coming.....Raid 1 isn't a backup ;)
Click to expand...

its not but as far as I'm concerned neither is WHS anymore. That said Im going to still use it until I find something better.

The Problem with the UPS may have caused the issue but I'm not certain it could have just been WHS flaking again. I still can't use it to backup my system because I can't configure the backup.
 
That's very unfortunate you've had such a bad experience with WHS. My setup has been a complete plug and play experience with no issues (knock on wood!).
 
Putting a new drive in the computer you restored makes it a new computer. You have to delete the computer from WHS and then back it up again. It will take awhile but it's really your only option.

Make sure you make a post on the official forums so the devs can see it. Maybe they can roll it in as an update or as part of the next WHS.

I know you say it's not an option but I would consider making some changes to your computer to get WHS into the stacker case. I have mine in a stacker case. All my data, music, photos, all my movies, etc. are all on the server. I don't keep any data on my desktop. All drives are duplicated. I map drives from the server to my desktop, laptop and HTPC. Works great.
 
My Thermochilla PA 120.3 isnt going to fit inside teh Antec mini :p nor will my DFI motherboard!. At this point I don't trust WHS enough to hold all of my data but maybe someday.

it would be tempting to put everything ont he server and that would be idea, but I'm limited on space and SATA ports. I would need to get a SATA Card and new case. And then it would be kind of pointlerss to be using a Micro ATX motherboard? But I guess the C2D board will still make a good server.

I would like to get another stacker though, and wish I had better understood the purpose of building such a system (instead of my idea to find a cheap quiet small case to do my backups). But I have no money as I'm now unemployed. But in either case I'd really end up with a similar setup having data and then a backup of the data, only it would be dependent on 1 machine instead of 2?

In the process of re-backing up now, I got the RMAed Hard drive and backed up my most critical data to that just in case a drive were to go out durring the huge backup....

I guess having all the data on the WHS server would get rid of the problem of replacing drives when they died on the PC. Because at that point you would be doing the Restore anyways so no big deal. I guess I'm not using WHS for it's intended purpose?
 
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Ditch the thermochill. My desktop is watercooled and i've come to the conclusion it's a waste of time. In fact I have the same thermochill. For my next build i'm going back to air cooling. Less hassle, less maintenance. I don't overclock anymore anyways. I just never got an overclock that resulted in a noticable performance improvement that I felt was worth any risk. And if that's what it takes to get your drives in the server....
But that's just me.

Anyways, WHS has been flawless for me. It's allowed me to restore two computers without issue and housing all my data to stream across my network. I'm using an old P4 chip and board too. Works great.
 
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Archer75 said:
Ditch the thermochill. My desktop is watercooled and i've come to the conclusion it's a waste of time. In fact I have the same thermochill. For my next build i'm going back to air cooling. Less hassle, less maintenance. I don't overclock anymore anyways. I just never got an overclock that resulted in a noticable performance improvement that I felt was worth any risk. And if that's what it takes to get your drives in the server....
But that's just me.

Anyways, WHS has been flawless for me. It's allowed me to restore two computers without issue and housing all my data to stream across my network. I'm using an old P4 chip and board too. Works great.
Click to expand...

Maybe if you live in a house with AC, I find using liquid keeps me from cooking my parts in the summer. I have never really ran into a problem with it, also I still overclock... Although I didn't get too far when I switched back to intel since my CPU hits a wall the same with stock voltage as it does when I increase it.
 
Justintoxicated said:
Maybe if you live in a house with AC, I find using liquid keeps me from cooking my parts in the summer. I have never really ran into a problem with it, also I still overclock... Although I didn't get too far when I switched back to intel since my CPU hits a wall the same with stock voltage as it does when I increase it.
Click to expand...

I never found much difference in temps between a stock fan and water cooling. Right now my idle temps are exactly the same with both. Under load temps aren't much different for me on water than what others are getting on air.
I have had leaks. Occasionally I have to replace the lines due to algae build up. The water gets low and needs to be refilled from time to time. I have spilled some without realizing it and the water ran down a line and dripped into the powersupply. When I turned it on powersupply promptly died.
It's no quieter than a stock air cooler. The loudest part in my case are not the case fans, not the 3 120mm fans on the radiator, it's the pump.

Anyways, I recommend ditching it so you can get WHS into a real server case with all your drives and store your data there. May make things easier.
 
Archer75 said:
I never found much difference in temps between a stock fan and water cooling. Right now my idle temps are exactly the same with both. Under load temps aren't much different for me on water than what others are getting on air.
I have had leaks. Occasionally I have to replace the lines due to algae build up. The water gets low and needs to be refilled from time to time. I have spilled some without realizing it and the water ran down a line and dripped into the powersupply. When I turned it on powersupply promptly died.
It's no quieter than a stock air cooler. The loudest part in my case are not the case fans, not the 3 120mm fans on the radiator, it's the pump.

Anyways, I recommend ditching it so you can get WHS into a real server case with all your drives and store your data there. May make things easier.
Click to expand...

What pump did you have? I use a MCP355 with a XSPC top and I find that it is much quieter than my stock cooling (especially with the stock cooler on my HD4870). I also overclock a lot more.
 
kipper said:
What pump did you have? I use a MCP355 with a XSPC top and I find that it is much quieter than my stock cooling (especially with the stock cooler on my HD4870). I also overclock a lot more.
Click to expand...

I no longer water cool my video card. Oh I did on my Radeon x1900xtx as that got quite loud and it kept the load temps down quite a bit. I replaced it with a Nvidia 9800GTX which is just air cooled. It's very quiet. I don't overclock video cards as the actually real world performance gains are pretty minor. Not worth the risk. And i'd rather not purchase another waterblock for it.
My CPU is watercooled now.
My pump looks like this http://www.dangerden.com/store/dd12v-d5_pump-fixed-speed-by-laing.html?&cat=23
but I think I have an older model.
 
Well I don't have the same results you do. My water cooled PC is pretty quite, my air cooled is actualy quieter but thats because the CPU in the WHS box is never under a load so it never spins the fan up. my 8800GTS G92 was quite loud on air cooling so I had to shut it up. I didn't have to buy a new block just some memory sinks. I mix 10/th to 1/7th pentosin to water. Some say this is too much and will reduce my temps slightly but it is very low maintenance, I had a slight leak once (never any problems from it) when I used plastic barbs.

I have the 120.3 thermochill on the bottom of my stacker PSU up top, Video and NB blocks.

I have to top it off every 6 months or so but thats about it. That is with a T-line. I have a D5 pump wrapped in sound deadener, some people said it would get too hot like this but the D5 pump is cooled by the water pumping through it. I have had this pump for about 4 years now.
 
To the OP, it wasn't your fault. This is a bug or problem in WHS, I have hit it too.

Client with two drives, the non-system drive fails. Both drives being backed up by WHS. I replace the failed drive. Try to recover data from the failed drive to its replacement with the same size and drive letter was problematic. Trying to resume regular backups after that event was downright impossible without basically deleting that computer from WHS then adding it again, which as you noted purges the old backup history.

I've had enough glitches with WHS (total lack of resiliency to loss of the WHS system drive; lack of polish in handling client recovery scenarios with multiple drives on the client) that I think anyone considering it for critical data should inventory the common failure modes, understand then, and test each one out and be aware of its behavior. It does work very well for simple tasks. It's already saved me once with a run of the mill laptop HD failure. But, it's just not architected for more complex failure modes.

For me, after several unsuccessful tests, I no longer consider WHS's backup capabilities (of clients or of itself) to be terribly reliable, so I try not to keep important data on clients, and I don't use WHS's own backup ability but instead simply copy (in my case, robocopy) WHS volume contents to another storage system on a scheduled basis.
 
sphinx, thanks for your post. I was starting to thin I was crazy. I don't feel that restoring a non OS hard drive is a complex operation, it certainly SHOULD be able to handle this without having to remove your entire backup afterwards.
 
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