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Which Canon should I get?

RagingSamster

RagingSamster

2[H]4U
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Jun 6, 2003
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I'm looking at either the XTi or the XSi

The XTi i could grab now, and I have the lenses in my sig for it - I would most likely get the kit lens too as I would pass my 300D on to my daughter. If I wait until Mr. Bush's check arrives I could grab an XSI with the IS kit lens - if the kit lens is good. the 300 has served me well and taken some nice shots, but I want to take my game up a notch, and before I start dispensing wheelbarrows full of cash for "L" series glass, I want to have a nice base to build on. I also will have enough money to possibly get a Canon flash, would the 430EX be acceptable for use? I do a lot of inside work usually at church and the pop-up just doesn't have the throw I need to capture the sanctuary. When building PCs and now when making photo investment decisions I always like to ask [H] for advice.
 
The 18-55 IS is very a nice, a great step up from the standard 18-55 kit lens.

The 420ex or 430ex would be great. Difference between the two are very minor and both have the same power. If you wanted to use it on the 300D as well, 430ex would be the one to get as it has FEC built into the flash (420ex doesnt), besides that, both are very similar and will give you similar results on the XSI or XTI.

Also check out www.photography-on-the.net as there is a wealth of knowledge there. I am there as Grentz as well.


Overall though I must say, dont expect miracles coming from the 300D as far as image quality. The 300D is a very capable camera as well. SLRs are all very good as far as IQ goes. The XTI or XSI is a nice upgrade though. I moved to a 30D from my 300D and have not looked back. The main issue with the 300D is its slowness to turn on, view images, etc. because of the older digic chip, the new cameras are much faster and nicer to use in that respect.
 
Hmm.. a lot of things going on here. First let's talk about your needs. When you say capture the sanctuary how large a place are you trying to light. If it's too large, it might be hard to light. For better quality light, I recommend a light modifier for forward shooting of things like people or bouncing it off the wall if the wall is not too far away. In either case, it wastes a lot of power and you are best off always having a more powerful flash. 580EX has more power and recycles faster.

I'm going to suggest going with a 30D, 580EX, and preferably a constant aperture f/2.8 zoom like Tamron 17-50. An XTi or XSi is too small and uncomfortable really with a flash let alone a bigger lens and flash so a larger size is important. I prefer medium/high ISO from 30D than XTi.

This will be out of the budget so in terms of experimenting, I'd get the flash first (preferably used), lens, then upgrade the body.
 
I'd wait for the XSi and the 18-55 IS. Good combination. Now the 70-210 f4 is that really the 70-210/3.5-4.5?

As for a flash, get the 430EX. External Speedlights give you way more power and control.
 
I do think I will wait for the XSI, I hope to have enough with the coming "incentive check" to grab that and a 580 EX. The IS will be nice especially for non-flash indoor use, but I really need a flash with reach and although it is spendy, I have heard the 580 is supposed to be quite powerful and will allow me to expand if I go crazy and need more light.

The Rebel form factor is not uncomfortable to me at all, even with my 70-210/f4 (it's an old school lens and I think it's a straight F4) it's not too unwieldy. I will like the live view function of the XSI - having the camera detached from your head while shooting can be a great benefit at times.

Found a picture of the 70-210

newlensflash.JPG


I bought three lenses (one was broken) a useless flash a couple of filters and a nice leather bag for $150 off of craigslist.
 
RagingSamster said:
The Rebel form factor is not uncomfortable to me at all, even with my 70-210/f4
Click to expand...

You mean your current 300D or the other ones? Because the 300D is the only exception being it's 10D sized and that is fairly larger camera. Try the XSi at the store with a larger lens and a flash and see if it's ok with you. I'd never do it myself. I'd get the grip immediately.
 
Thanks for that, I assumed that one rebel was the same as the others. By grip do you mean the grip/battery pack that attaches to the bottom?
 
Nope. The 1st Rebel 300D was a cheaper 10D. They were nearly the same camera. It's in different size class than the next iterations. The cameras started larger, got smaller, and are now getting larger again.

Sizes from dpreview site:

300D 142 x 99 x 72 mm (5.6 x 3.9 x 2.8 in)

350D 127 x 94 x 64 mm (5 x 3.7 x 2.5 in)
400D 127 x 94 x 65 mm (5 x 3.7 x 2.6 in)
450D 129 x 98 x 62 mm (5.1 x 3.9 x 2.4 in)

10D 150 x 107 x 75 mm (5.9 x 4.2 x 3 in)
20D 144 x 106 x 72 mm (5.7 x 4.2 x 2.8 in)
30D 144 x 106 x 74 mm (5.7 x 4.2 x 2.9 in)
40D 146 x 108 x 74 mm (5.8 x 4.3 x 2.9 in)

Yep the grip is the thing which attaches to the bottom which houses batteries. It adds extra dimension.

I would still get the 30D for the size. Live View is a bit awkward to use. It's not a P&S afterall. Also try it at the store.
 
I have the 350D (Rebel XT) and I use my 75-300 4-5.6 more than most of my other lenses. Without the battery grip it is really hard to hold onto, but with the battery grip it has a really nice feel.

If I were you I would look into buying a battery grip before you bought a flash if you are going with the rebel xti / xsi
 
I agree with Grentz and Ian..... make sure that you got to BB or CC and try the XSi out first to make sure it fits you. You can always check the POTN and Fred Miranda F/S forums to see what kind of used equipment they have. I found multiple 20D for under $500 with everything that comes in the box (sometimes a few extras) and pretty low mileage (anywhere from 5k to 50k). This is supposed to be a great camera and I should have mine sometime this week.
 
The 20D is an awesome camera at a steel of a price right now IMO. Great features, great performance, and way worth the current going price. The 30D has the same IQ (same sensor) but adds some very nice creature comforts like Spot Metering, Larger LCD, and a few other things. IMO the 20D and 30D are two of the best values for the money right now, they offer pretty much all the latest features, rock solid usage, and their IQ competes with the newest cameras out there easily (not just saying that cause I have one...look at reviews at it is scary similar to the 40D most of the time).

If you do go with the rebel line though, make sure to check it out in stores first. The 300D for all purposes is a full size SLR, the new rebels (XT, XTI, XSI) are all a bit smaller and the hand grip in particular is shrunk. Usually the battery grip can help with this though and help balance the camera out better.

OP, those lenses that you bought...which one is not working? The 50mm 1.8 MkI you have there is worth almost what you paid for everything if that one is still working and it is an EXCELLENT lens.
 
The 50mm mk1 is the best lens I have ever used (not saying much) it has let me take indoor no flash shots that amaze me - the kind of shots you see other people take and wish you could. The broken one was a 20-85mm/F4 or some such that I really didn't mind not having for the price I was looking for the 50mm lens specifically and when I saw the ad I jumped hard. The 70-210 is a great lens for learning too. Basically out of the deal I got the two lenses, a UV filter, a circular pol filter and a nice bag - Currently I just use the manual trigger on the flash to blind small children that wander into my computer room. Not sure but I think that flash is not quite compatible with digital rebel as it triggered once or twice off the 300 put does not fire reliably any longer from the shoe.

Thanks for all the advice - truly - Only doing this for a year I rely on more experienced folks to help - especially when looking at a new body. The 20d and 30d are at a really nice price point. I can see picking up a body and a 580 speedlight flash off of ebay. I am by no means trying to be a "professional" I just want more better pictures! I may have to wait for an IS lens, but the flash should help with that. Next year I'll save my pennies for some L series glass, but the 50mm/1.8 has given me a first taste of what my pictures could be
 
Stick with the flash for now and learn it well.

A faster lens will help with with without flash photography. It's not an L lens but the 17-55 2.8 IS is a great option for next year.
 
I would recommend lurking the FS/FT forum over at www.photography-on-the.net and fredmiranda.

Much more reliable than eBay, and you can pickup some great deals as no worry of ebay fees. Most of the people are good as well from my experience.
 
I’d go on eBay and FS and see if you can find a used 30D and get better glass rather than buying a more expensive camera that isn’t even as good. The best way to "step up your game" is to go up the series (from the rebel to the 30D or 40D). Going from an old rebel to a new one will not be much of a difference. Also when you upgrade to the XXD series, you get the metal body, faster burst mode and larger size (feels more natural in my hands).

Here is one on eBay that is at $400 with 1 and a half days left. I'd go for that and a 70-200 f4 or a
28-135 IS. http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-EOS-30D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Body_W0QQitemZ220228252806QQihZ012QQcategoryZ43454QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Any newer camera would be better than his 300D. Even the new Rebels. There's nothing wrong with going from one Rebel to another.

The best way to step up his indoor game is to learn to take better photos using flash and using a faster lens not upgrading the body to a higher model line.

I don't think the 70-200f4 is the best choice indoors. f4 is too slow indoors. 70-200 is also too long.
 
Remember though, its not about if there will be a performance increase, its about how much of an increase there will be.

I agree that any newer camera will be better, but why not get the best for you money. Why not recommend the best he can afford.

Also, he said that he is shooting in a church, not his house. When you do weddings and services you cant be walking around and moving while the service is going on. I find that it is better to stand in the back with a 70-200 rather than be moving to zoom with a 50mm.

I stand by my initial recommendation.:confused:
 
I already suggested he get a 30D. I just disagree with what you said that to step up the game you must go from Rebel (XXXD) series to middle (XXD) series.

Most people use wide to short telephoto for weddings. 70-200 is a more unorthodox choice. f4 is too slow and with telephoto you might not have enough shutter speed to prevent motion shake if you can't use flash. The flash would have a harder time going more distance forward also. The depth of field is smaller also and what happens when you want more to be in focus? You certainly can't stop down. So I don't recommend 70-200 f4.
 
Going from the 300D to the other rebels is a huge upgrade though because of the speed of the camera (not FPS, just the hardware itself). The 300D is pokey going between menus, reviewing photos, etc. and the other rebels are a great upgrade. There also are a lot of things that the other rebels add compared to the 300D.

I agree a move to a 30D is a bigger upgrade, but going from the 300D to one of the others is a large upgrade as well.

The 70-200 is great indoors in Churches, Sports, etc. f4 is a little slow, but doable. The 70-200 is a great lens and oen of the best zooms out there.

Most guys actually use the 70-200 for weddings and such, most use the more expensive 2.8 version, but still many use the f4 version without issue. The nice thing about the 70-200 is that it is very sharp wide open at f4, so unlike other f4 lenses that you HAVE to stop down to make them usable, the 70-200 you can use right at f4.
 
Some guys may have or use the 70-200 but it's usually the 2.8 IS version. On full frame this zoom is more useful. There's much less people using 70-200 f4 on crop camera in this situation especially for natural light. With flash you could get away with getting people but people+the area around them is trickier.
 
lan said:
Some guys may have or use the 70-200 but it's usually the 2.8 IS version. On full frame this zoom is more useful. There's much less people using 70-200 f4 on crop camera in this situation especially for natural light. With flash you could get away with getting people but people+the area around them is trickier.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know ;)

But the f4 is decent as well even for this situation, it has been discussed many times over at POTN, and many over there use the f4 in this situation just fine. Its not idea, but you are talking a $1000 difference between the f4 and f2.8 IS ;) LOTS use the 70-200Ls on Crop Cameras for weddings and such, it is one of the most popular Canon zooms out there (and not always just the f2.8 IS version...). The compression you get from the FL is a big reason to use it as well. 70-200 really is not that long for weddings and such when you consider primes like the 135L and 85L that are used.


Other one to look at is the 55-250 IS which is getting rave reviews for the price it is (~$300). Again not a super low light lens, but it will do well for most situations and Churches are not always that dark.

If you want low light, in a larger Church/indoor events, the 85 1.8 prime is another to look at in the ~<$500 mark. Great lens and great for low light shooting.
 
Grentz said:
and Churches are not always that dark.
Click to expand...

When I make recommendations, I consider worst case scenarios. It's better to have more than less. That's why I recommended 580EX and that's why I'm not recommending an f4 telephoto with no IS.
 
lan said:
When I make recommendations, I consider worst case scenarios. It's better to have more than less. That's why I recommended 580EX and that's why I'm not recommending an f4 telephoto with no IS.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, and I agree with your recommendations.

I am saying that on a budget though, the f4 w/o IS can still work very well.

I would recomend a look at the 85 1.8 though as well ;)
 
My point that the 30d would be a bigger upgrade than to the xsi and would keep the same size he is used to. My point with the lens was that usally a constant f4 is better than a 3.5 to 5.6 with crappier glass in it too.I'm not sayingbthatbit has to be a primaray lens, but somtimes you want to take pictures while the service is going on when you can't use the flash. Any idiot can say that the 2.8 IS is better, but most of the time you don't even need the extra stop. Sorr for spelling cause I'm on my iphone.
 
I don't think the 300D->30D is a bigger upgrade than 300D->450D but I do agree he should get a used 30D.

The advantage of better f4 glass is counteracted when the photo will be blurrier because of motion blur or more noise due to ISO1600.

I'm not sure what churches you go to but they are darker than my room and my room measures around f4 ISO1600 1/50th of a second. There's been cases where f/1.4 is already pushing it in some places I've been at. It's impossible to handhold 70-200 f4 without some motion blur. If you're going to do lowlight, either IS, faster glass, or flash is the way to go.
 
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