Where can i get 3800+ X2 *TOLEDO*?

54YW4T said:
title says it? where? been looking, cant find.
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Technically that would be an opteron 165/170(Can't remember which is which, might even be higher than that)
 
Ruffy said:
Technically that would be an opteron 165/170(Can't remember which is which, might even be higher than that)
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sorta.. the 3800+ toledo still has 512kb per core to use while the opterons get 1mb/core
 
Ruffy said:
Technically that would be an opteron 165/170(Can't remember which is which, might even be higher than that)
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a 3800 would be a 165, 170 is clocked at 2.0ghz
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
sorta.. the 3800+ toledo still has 512kb per core to use while the opterons get 1mb/core
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Errm...

Manchester: 2x512kB
Toledo: 2x1MB

AFAIK all X2 3800+ are Manchester core.
 
Raudulfr said:
Errm...

Manchester: 2x512kB
Toledo: 2x1MB

AFAIK all X2 3800+ are Manchester core.
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No some 3800+ are toledo cores with half of the cache disabled.
 
Raudulfr said:
Errm...

Manchester: 2x512kB
Toledo: 2x1MB

AFAIK all X2 3800+ are Manchester core.
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DO NOT DISAGREE! ;)

trust me on this. there are definitly toledo 3800+ X2's that simply have 1/2 the cache disabled.
 
Born out of that fact, the Toledo based Athlon 64 X2 4600+ and 4200+ were nothing more than 4800/4400+ X2s with too many manufacturing defects; instead of throwing the bad cores away, AMD simply rebranded them and sold them at lower price points. The problem with this approach is that an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ took the same amount of space on a wafer as an Athlon 64 X2 4800+, despite only having half the cache. Thus we have the Manchester core: a core designed from the ground up to only feature a 512KB L2 cache per core.
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Where is it then?
http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx
 
If you look on anand *shudders* forums, there is a thread with some info on this IIRC.
 
PaHick said:
Out of stock, but this is Toledo core. E6 stepping is Toledo, E4 Manchester...correct? Part #'s end in CD for Toledo,BV Manchester?
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The stores says TDP of 110W :confused: And that's an OEM 3800+.... Never heard of no Toledo 3800+ wtf?

I thought the 3800+ was a brand new CPU, not just a 4400+/4800+ with damaged/disabled cache.
 
so. if the Toledo and the Manchester have the same usable cache. why bother looking for it. 3800+ Manchester already runs cool.
 
Ruffy said:
so. if the Toledo and the Manchester have the same usable cache. why bother looking for it. 3800+ Manchester already runs cool.
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they don't always have the same usable cache though. this is one of those areas where you have to be specific with what you say. also, the toldeo 2x512kb X2's seem to run cooler than the manchester 2x512kb X2's
 
There's some myth going around that the Toledos OC better than the Manchesters. Unproven. Just get yourself any 3800+. :)
 
I ordered from xtreme gear and my 3800x2 ends in CD so it's a toledo. I haven't had time to build the machine yet. The case modding and watercooling is going to take a good 2 weeks.
 
I would like to see some proof that these are toledo's, it just doesn't make sense.


Just cause something is e6 doesn't have anything to do with how much cache is on the chip.
 
The core itself is physically larger due to the extra cache that is disabled. They generally run cooler as well.

I ordered specifically avoiding the "new" manchesters. I wanted a toledo or old manchester. I imagine as yields grow, they'll do more speed binning and won't just fill demand with whatever's on-hand. This could mean lesser overclocks and that would be unhappy for me :D
 
(...) the 4800+ model. That chip is code-named "Toledo," and it packs 1MB of L2 cache per processor core, as do the dual-core Opterons. Toledo-core chips sport a transistor count of about 230 million, all crammed into a die size of 199 mm2.

AMD also makes several models of Athlon 64 X2 that have only 512K of L2 cache. In the past, CPUs with smaller caches have sometimes been based on the exact same chip as the ones with more cache, but they'd have half of the L2 cache disabled for one reason or another. That's not the case with the X2 3800+. AMD says this "Manchester"-core part has about 154 million.
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Herein lies my doubt. The 3800+ is smaller than the Toledos, how can the 3800+ have a Toledo version?
 
I already posted where to find them in the third post in this thread.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I just won't believe there can be such thing as a 2MB cache 3800+. They have smaller die size and fewer transistors, it just isn't possible.
 
Raudulfr said:
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I just won't believe there can be such thing as a 2MB cache 3800+. They have smaller die size and fewer transistors, it just isn't possible.
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You can disagree with anyone you like, but make no mistake, they exist. The die size is the same, because the CD 3800's ARE Toldeos. You need to read this at the very least. Maybe even post a question or two there. Im sure they will be happy to assist you.
 
Oh so I guess they're all wrong then, since they state that the 3800+ has just 147mm2 of die size and only 154 million transistors. I'm sure the extra 1MB of cache is hidden there somewhere.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/processors/amd3800_x2/
http://www.amdboard.com/athlon_64_3800_x2.html
http://www.a1-electronics.net/AMD_Section/CPUs/2005/Athlon64x2-3800+_Aug.shtml
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1758

How ignorant of me to think that they were right, and that this was a "new" CPU designed from ground-up to be cheaper to make, smaller die size, just 2x512kB cache instead of disabling it.

Any Toledo core 3800+ here? -> http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx
I didn't think so.
 
cpu-z says i have a jh-e6, that's toledo according to amd forum link....so how do we enable the rest of the L2 cache? :D
 
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1016356#post1016356

As you can clearly see the toledo and manchester core are very diffrent in sizes, we will know as soon as someone removes their IHS from an e6 manchester

@Raudulfr : Those reviews probably all had the e4 manchester cores since they were reviewed right when the chips came out.

I believe this relates to the e3 -> e6 venice changes just on dual-core's, but we shall know for sure soon.
 
Raudulfr said:
Oh so I guess they're all wrong then, since they state that the 3800+ has just 147mm2 of die size and only 154 million transistors. I'm sure the extra 1MB of cache is hidden there somewhere.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2484
http://www.techwarelabs.com/reviews/processors/amd3800_x2/
http://www.amdboard.com/athlon_64_3800_x2.html
http://www.a1-electronics.net/AMD_Section/CPUs/2005/Athlon64x2-3800+_Aug.shtml
http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=1758

How ignorant of me to think that they were right, and that this was a "new" CPU designed from ground-up to be cheaper to make, smaller die size, just 2x512kB cache instead of disabling it.

Any Toledo core 3800+ here? -> http://www.amdcompare.com/us-en/desktop/Default.aspx
I didn't think so.
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No, its not there,AMD removed it for whatever reason. But Google still has it in cache . And these sites you linked arent wrong, and you arent ingnorant, at least under that circumstance. You ARE ignorant in thinking it isnt possible for it to exist. The proof was shown.Most likely AMD had a surplus of E6 cores and decided to use them. They simply disabled some L2 cache. In the end you choose to believe or not, but if your truly that ignorant in light of the proof....i am speechless.

EDIT***

Gotta fix link...brb.
EDIT**
fixed.
 
I have a manchester core 3800+ and I don't see how I could get any cooler than 27C idle.
 
I have a XP-90 with the high-flow Panflow, 120mm nexus front intake, loud 80mm side intake that puts air not quite ontop of the HSF, and another loud 80mm exhaust fan. I guess you could count my Seasonic 600W as another exhaust. My house is kept at a cool 72ish
 
Manchester Core: Part# ADA3800BVBOX
Toledo Core: Part# ADA3800CDBOX
 
So I think the question everyone wants answered is: If you are lucky enough to score one of these Toledos with half the cache disabled, is there a way to enable it so you get some big cache hotness for cool $$$?
 
pcfountain said:
So I think the question everyone wants answered is: If you are lucky enough to score one of these Toledos with half the cache disabled, is there a way to enable it so you get some big cache hotness for cool $$$?
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nope. physically disabled with a laser or something at the AMD fab. it can be renabled, but not too easily ;)
 
The better question is do the Toledo's really OC better than the currently shipping Manchester.

Doesn't getting a Toledo basically guarantee slightly better quality and slightly better cooling cause of surface area? Or is this a myth.

Toledo's are being dumped now by retails from what I can see.
 
a little bird told me you guys should check out pcdirect for the toledo core 3800+ retail processor........but keep it quiet as the more orders placed the less chance of the orders going through............
 
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