Where can I find reviews of servers? HP ProLiant BL460c and IBM BladeCenter HS21...

t_ski

t_ski

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Hey all. I'm doing my internship for a local hospital. They are in the midst of a huge server upgrade, and part of my job is doing research for the head of the IS department. Today I was aked to get some user feedback on the HP ProLiant BL460c and IBM BladeCenter HS21 blade servers. Unfortunately for me, it seems server reviews are harder to come by than PC hardware reviews. Is there some place that you guys can point me for some decent info? Google searches for "HP ProLiant BL460c reviews" etc turn up lots of buying links and HP site links.

So far the only things I've found were from eweek, techtarget, and infoworld.

Thanks in advance ;)
 
I would ask people that work as a system/network administrator etc what they think on the servers they use every day.
 
The current setup here is pretty much a Dell shop, but the new head of IS here is leaning towards the HP setup. Unfortunately, the only other place I can think of ATM is school, and they're a Dell shop, too. I know a guy who worked for a local bank, and I'll see if I can get some info out of him what kind of systems they used there.

I need some independent sources like online magazines, etc. that have reviewed these and can give the good and bad. I have found some stuff on the HP forums about some issues to look out for, and I have found some benchmark info @ Spec.org. Still searching... :(
 
Are you saying to go with IBM, or go to IBM for reviews and evaluations? I need the later, but going to the manufacturer for reviews is pointless. Of course they're going to tell you theirs are better.

I haven't been able to find any support forums on the IBM site to see what issues they are having trouble with.
 
t_ski said:
Are you saying to go with IBM, or go to IBM for reviews and evaluations? I need the later, but going to the manufacturer for reviews is pointless. Of course they're going to tell you theirs are better.

I haven't been able to find any support forums on the IBM site to see what issues they are having trouble with.
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No, I'm saying use IBM ;)

Just a preference after working with both a good deal.

There aren't really IBM forums - you just call them directly :-p
 
I prefer the HP blade vs the IBM blade from my experiences (we use both HP and IBM here)... and due to various reasons. I am not going to give my reasons as some are preference and due to a specific person trolling this area of the forums, it will just get nit picked.
 
Ockie said:
I prefer the HP blade vs the IBM blade from my experiences (we use both HP and IBM here)... and due to various reasons. I am not going to give my reasons as some are preference and due to a specific person trolling this area of the forums, it will just get nit picked.
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Ok now you have to share since there could be drama that unfolds. :p
 
Thanks for the info. Which blades have you used and (if I might ask) in what industry? So far here is the information my research has provided:

HP
Pros:
  • Best power redundancy (6 PSU's per chassis)
  • Management software has multiple accounts/levels of access (to keep out lower "rank" employees)
  • 10GB bus available
  • Lower server costs, support costs and chassis & misc equipment cost
Cons:
  • Local KVM requires special dongle/cable
  • Chassis life is shorter due to different blades needing different chassis
  • Virtual Connect software has some kind of requirement for HP switches?
  • No flexibility to boot from the SAN
  • Integrated NICs - are they upgradable???

IBM
Pros:
  • Power redundancy (4 PSUs)
  • 10GB bus availabel
  • Better processor selection
  • Chassis life is longer due to compatible blades
  • More power efficient than similarly configured HP blades
Cons:
  • IBM blades are louder (can be an issue when trying to get phone support)
  • Noise dampening available, but at extra cost
  • Managment software only has one level of access
  • IDM Advanced Directo (which IIRC fixes the above issue) is availabel, but at extra cost
  • Broadcom network cards by default
  • Additional memory (more than 4 modules) requires memory expansion card at additional cost
  • 14 blades per chassis instead of HP's 16
  • Overall server costs, support costs and chassis & misc equipment cost are higher

Any insight you guys can provide on actual usage would be great: problems, benefits, experiences, etc. Again, there is limited info I could find so far, so whatever you can provide would be helpful.
 
We had nothing but problems with our IBM bladecenter, it's back at IBM now, swapped it out for some x346s. We could never get the virtual cd-roms to work correctly to install OS's, network performance was terrible. We had the backplane replaced to see if that would correct the issues, but it didn't. I'd go Dell now, if I had the choice, they just came out with the new chassis and it'll be in place for atleast this rev and the next.
 
They're looking at some Dells also, but the current rack system is all Dell and they're having hardware issues frequently (motherboards, drives, etc.). They're also having trouble with Dell hemming and hawing about providing the 4-hour support we paid for even though they agreed to it when the contract was signed. (We're somwhat rural in the middle of IL about 2 hours east of Springfield.)

One of the other issues with Dell was their management software for blades is getting bad reviews. Many say it's more ideal for rack systems than blades. Because of this (and other reasons), it seems like the boss is planning on going with either the IBM or HP, as long as he can swing the numbers. Part of that means getting his boss to buy into it, which is why I was put on the reviews.

EDIT: Oh, and if any of you don't want to post specifics because you don't want to start any flame wars or such, feel free to PM me with specifics. I'd really appreciate as much detail as you can give... ;)
 
I'll be honest: My preference (I work for VMWare) is IBM, but it's a personal preference. Both are just as solid and reliable as the other.
 
Cool. There are plans to add VMWare to the servers later down the road. Would you say they are equal in their compatibility and usage with VMWare?
 
t_ski said:
Cool. There are plans to add VMWare to the servers later down the road. Would you say they are equal in their compatibility and usage with VMWare?
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ESX?

Just make sure they're on the hardware compatibility list. I've seen more IBM Blades running VMWare without issue than HP, but I'm only a limited slice of the market, obviously.

And let me make this clear: If running ESX: I HIGHLY recommend Intel processors instead of AMD. HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY. Especially new ones.
 
We're looking at dual Quad Core Xeon X5365's and X5460's.

I'm sorry - what's ESX?
 
t_ski said:
We're looking at dual Quad Core Xeon X5365's and X5460's.

I'm sorry - what's ESX?
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ESX is vmwares higher end platform.

Anyway I've had some good luck with hp blades in the past but haven't had enough experience to recomend them over ibm or the other way.
 
Ah, I see. I've only dealt with Player and WorkStation so far. Thanks for the info.

Anybody else got any information?
 
Thanks for that. What I was finding kept asking me for information I didn't have, and I assumed there were a few hoops to jump through to get to it. I'll check it out ASAP.

lopoetve said:
about the servers or ESX?
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Both ;)
 
t_ski said:
Thanks for that. What I was finding kept asking me for information I didn't have, and I assumed there were a few hoops to jump through to get to it. I'll check it out ASAP.



Both ;)
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Ask anything you want about ESX, and I'll tell you anything I know that isn't under NDA.
 
for HP blade review has written a guy from Poland i think I'm not sure, once i found during google image search try, he was Microsoft Certified i don;t remember what
if you find his blog tell me i can;t right now
 
lopoetve said:
Ask anything you want about ESX, and I'll tell you anything I know that isn't under NDA.
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When the hell are we going to be able to resize disks on the fly or just shutting down and using the VI client? :p
 
ND40oz said:
When the hell are we going to be able to resize disks on the fly or just shutting down and using the VI client? :p
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Resizing disks on the fly is a limitation of the guest operating systems as well as an ESX limitation. Don't expect it to change any time soon. :( You ~might~ see expanding on the fly, but almost certainly not shrinking.

What are you asking about VIC?
 
lopoetve said:
Resizing disks on the fly is a limitation of the guest operating systems as well as an ESX limitation. Don't expect it to change any time soon. :( You ~might~ see expanding on the fly, but almost certainly not shrinking.

What are you asking about VIC?
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Resizing the disks using the VI client, I don't mind shutting down the OS, but when will we be able to do in within the client? Plus, I shouldn't have to boot up using gpart to expand it in the OS, that functionality should be available within the VI client as well, part of the vm tools. That's my complaint for today... :D
 
ND40oz said:
Resizing the disks using the VI client, I don't mind shutting down the OS, but when will we be able to do in within the client? Plus, I shouldn't have to boot up using gpart to expand it in the OS, that functionality should be available within the VI client as well, part of the vm tools. That's my complaint for today... :D
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You want our software to modify a totally unknown guest partition table?

Yeah right. You have any idea the support calls I'd get on that? Especially with MS being as closed-lipped as they are about NTFS? :eek:

Resizing disks is something that a lot of Operating Systems ~don't~ like. That's why it's not in VI client: we let you do it, but you ~need~ to know what you're doing. vmkfstools means you have a clue ;)
 
lopoetve said:
You want our software to modify a totally unknown guest partition table?

Yeah right. You have any idea the support calls I'd get on that? Especially with MS being as closed-lipped as they are about NTFS? :eek:

Resizing disks is something that a lot of Operating Systems ~don't~ like. That's why it's not in VI client: we let you do it, but you ~need~ to know what you're doing. vmkfstools means you have a clue ;)
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Eh, we're getting off topic, either way, it would be a nice feature to have and I imagine others are interested in it as well. Besides, we pay for platinum support for a reason, and don't you guys want to get interesting calls during the day? :p

Back on topic, how many are you looking at buying? I'd see if you could get some units from each of the manufactures to try them out if you can swing it. That's going to be your best bet at finding out what you like best.
 
ND40oz said:
Eh, we're getting off topic, either way, it would be a nice feature to have and I imagine others are interested in it as well. Besides, we pay for platinum support for a reason, and don't you guys want to get interesting calls during the day? :p

Back on topic, how many are you looking at buying? I'd see if you could get some units from each of the manufactures to try them out if you can swing it. That's going to be your best bet at finding out what you like best.
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NOT LIKE THAT I DONT!!!!

I have enough trouble with people deleting their partition table or using the LOLRAID Apple Raid as a SAN to mess with that.
 
We are looking at getting 42-43 of then now. The future may bring more server upgrades as they look to increase then density, or they may just end up using VM Ware to do that.
 
t_ski said:
We are looking at getting 42-43 of then now. The future may bring more server upgrades as they look to increase then density, or they may just end up using VM Ware to do that.
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Dude, if you're getting that many, definitely bring in the ones your interested in for eval. You want to have hands on before you're in the thick of them.
 
t_ski said:
We are looking at getting 42-43 of then now. The future may bring more server upgrades as they look to increase then density, or they may just end up using VM Ware to do that.
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Call HP, Dell, and IBM, see if they will send you an evaluation unit. With the intent on purchasing that many, they should bend over backwards for you. Or hell, buy all three, test them, return the ones you don't want.
 
I didn't think that they would do that. We have been going through vendors so far - would they send out eval units, or would we need to go through the manufacturer directly? Have any you guys done that before?
 
t_ski said:
I didn't think that they would do that. We have been going through vendors so far - would they send out eval units, or would we need to go through the manufacturer directly? Have any you guys done that before?
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A reseller should be able to get you units, but your better off going straight to HP, IBM and Dell. If you're looking at buying 43 of these things you should be talking to a company rep/sales person. We eval'd all three 2 years ago, had units from each of them for 3 months for eval.
 
yes. AbsoLUTELY go thorugh dell/whoever directly. they'll cut you massive deals for huge purchases.
 
I've always used HP and Dell equipment. I've used a few IBM servers in the past but I'm not partial to them. I've had more problems with them than I care for. I'd also like to say that my experience with HP and Dell support has been far better than my experiences with IBM.
 
So far, we have four C7000 chassis, each with 16 BL460c blades using X5355 quads and 32GB of memory with VMware ESX, and it's been great. I can wholeheartedly recommend them. VirtualConnect is also worthwhile if it doesn't price you out of consideration. There are also some recent changes in Insight Control that work very well with virtualization efforts.
 
Minsc said:
So far, we have four C7000 chassis, each with 16 BL460c blades using X5355 quads and 32GB of memory with VMware ESX, and it's been great. I can wholeheartedly recommend them. VirtualConnect is also worthwhile if it doesn't price you out of consideration. There are also some recent changes in Insight Control that work very well with virtualization efforts.
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I'll throw out a warning about insight manager and control:

Make SURE your ESX boxes are patched. We have a whole lot of patches for that product to aid compatibility - you'll save yourself a lot of headache that way :) Patched it works well though.
 
Healthcare. I can send you some technical contacts with HP if you like.
 
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