Whats the best media player?

darkpark

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eli said:
can someone explain this whole bypass thing in windows? I run winamp, can I make it sound better by bypassing....?kmixer? where would one get the kind of thing to bypass it?

any info would be awesome

eli, the deal with bypassing kmixer is to avoid some of the bad things it does to the sound.
in my opinion: unless you got a decent sound setup (good soundcard and speakers/headphones) you won't be able to tell the difference. anyway, two ways of bypassing the kmixer is either using asio (if the soundcard supports it) or kernel streaming (only supported by foobar 2000 afaik).
check this site out for some plug-ins for winamp:
http://www3.cypress.ne.jp/otachan/
 

eli

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thanks man. Can you tell me what exactly the kmixer does to the sound?
 

GeForceX

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The kmixer resamples sound data when it doesn't need to. A 44 Khz audio will be forced to be resampled to 48 Khz and what of the last 4 Khz? The kmixer simply writes garbage data on the end and thus you lose sound quality and you can even hear static. It reduces the signal to noise ratio compared to the actual quality format. It's largely blamed on poor drivers in which they hand off the work to the kmixer which ruins the sounds here and there. For the average people-- they won't notice it, but if you're an audiophiliac-- yeah, you would. Especially during recording sessions.

-J.
 

eli

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damn that sucks....how do I know if kmixer is disabled? in winamp, when I am playing wav files, should it just apear as 44.1khz instead of the 48khz? or is there something more to finding out. Either way, this is really damn good to know. Thank you
 

eli

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I just downloaded foobar, and the ASIO driver for it......where do I put the ASIO dll to have it work with foobar...?
 

ElektronikSeraph

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I converted to foobar2000 just a couple months ago... I'd tried it on and off before but always settled back to Winamp since I never cared to customize foobar. Eventually I just took the time to customize foobar (all I really did was configure global controls and the colors) and I won't switch back to Winamp. Foo uses fewer resources than even classic Winamp and I just like the simplicity of it (in day-to-day use, ignoring the mindboggling customizing).

For video it's all about Media Player Classic. With QuickAlt and RealAlt it plays everything and does so with minimal hassle.
 

uzor

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A little OT, but what does everyone think about Zoom Player? Differences between it and Foobar? (Using Zoom with AC3Filter for a few movies, and I know that there are not a whole lot of players out there that understand and allow adjustment of the filter controls)
 

eli

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ok...downloaded the ddecontrol.dll file and put it in the C:\Program Files\foobar2000\components directory. I'm all set, my new sound card will be here soon :)
 

thewizard1785

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Foobar2k all the way. I would be stoned to death if I ever mentioned Winamp on head-fi.
Right MisterX... :p
 

NightRaven

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Eh, actually a fair number of people use Winamp on Head-fi, but really, once you get to know foobar inside and out, there is no going back.
 

thewizard1785

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NightRaven said:
Eh, actually a fair number of people use Winamp on Head-fi, but really, once you get to know foobar inside and out, there is no going back.

When I was noob at head-fi, ( umm ok I am still a noob :p) someone send me a PM after I posted that I use Winamp to switch over to Foobar or I would never be able to get the best out of my source :eek: Foobar was bit tricky at first but I got this link from someone which made it quite easy to understand. http://members.rogers.com/asmo/index.htm
I got used to Foobar and I don't think I will ever look back to Winamp.
 

NightRaven

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Actually, one thing I do have to mention regarding media player resampling. After getting my EMU 0404, I have felt no need to resample. While there was a definite difference with the Audigy 2 ZS due to its poor internal resampling to 48 khz, I really can't detect any real difference between 44.1khz, 96khz, and 192khz PPHS resampling of a 44.1khz encoded source on the EMU. This, along with the convenience of not having to change sessions to hear sounds from other programs, has lead me to cease using any software resampling altogether.
 

MartinX

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NightRaven said:
Actually, one thing I do have to mention regarding media player resampling. After getting my EMU 0404, I have felt no need to resample. While there was a definite difference with the Audigy 2 ZS due to its poor internal resampling to 48 khz, I really can't detect any real difference between 44.1khz, 96khz, and 192khz PPHS resampling of a 44.1khz encoded source on the EMU. This, along with the convenience of not having to change sessions to hear sounds from other programs, has lead me to cease using any software resampling altogether.

The EMU 0404 natively processes at 44.1khz so NOT resampling 44.1khz ->anything else is optimal for sound quality.

The same is true of the envy based cards (M-audio Revos etc).

The audigy (and very few others) is the only one where resampling HAS to happen because the card just can't output 44.1khz, it just happens better if you don't let the card do it itself.

Although, because it doesn't have to resample 96 or 192khz (true native support, and multiples of 48khz) and has the pro level DACS, my A4pro sounds absolutely brilliant with dvd-audio.
 

NightRaven

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The EMU 0404 natively supports 44.1, 48, 96, and 192khz sample rates. I mentioned my resampling experience because some people have suggested that resampling offers a modest improvement in subjective audio quality on any source. Maybe my equipment is not sensitive enough to detect the differences, but regardless, I thought it was worth noting.
 

MartinX

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NightRaven said:
The EMU 0404 natively supports 44.1, 48, 96, and 192khz sample rates. I mentioned my resampling experience because some people have suggested that resampling offers a modest improvement in subjective audio quality on any source. Maybe my equipment is not sensitive enough to detect the differences, but regardless, I thought it was worth noting.

Yeah but most music cds are sampled at 44.1khz, and by definition, resampling can only decrease quality, you can't add samples that aren't there.
 

eli

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How do I know if its resampling....for some reason, if something wen't wrong, I would want to know....would it just read 48khz instead of 44.1?
 

BO(V)BZ

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ShuttleLuv said:
Winamp 2.81 is by far the best sounding without tweaking. :)

Do yourself a favor, never sign up for a forum account at HydrogenAudio, they'd have a field day with you :D
 

Mister X

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BO(V)BZ said:
Do yourself a favor, never sign up for a forum account at HydrogenAudio, they'd have a field day with you :D


If you use onboard audio how would you know? :p :p
 

ShuttleLuv

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Foobar rocks. I got her all tweaked up now. It definitely sounds better than winamp to me. :)
 

xonik

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Do an ABX test, and you may be surprised.

http://www.foobar2000.org/FAQ.html#FAQ_o7
Does foobar2000 sound better than other players?
No. Most of "sound quality differences" people "hear" are placebo effect (at least with real music), as actual differences in produced sound data are below their noise floor (1 or 2 last bits in 16bit samples). Foobar2000 has sound processing features such as software resampling or 24bit output on new high-end soundcards, but most of other mainstream players are capable of doing the same by now.
 

xonik

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Yes, it seems to me that another person would be easiest. I suppose an application would be easy to write, but I am not aware of any programs out there.
 
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I don't understand the Foobar craze. Is there anywhere I can find out more about tweaking it? From what I can understand, most people like it because of its good file management system, but the only tweaks I've seen audio-wise have been sampling rate and associated file types.
 

eli

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how do you know if ASIO or kernel streaming is working with foobar?
 

stevewm

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kmixer does not resample...

In some configurations kmixer will mangle the last few bits of each audio sample. This usually only happens when using the WaveOutput device, or rarely in some configurations when using non-accelerated DirectSound output. If it happens with DirectSound output, then your DirectSound accleration level is not set to Max. You can fix this in the DXDIAG utility. (Start, Run, DXDIAG, click OK) Go to the Sound tab, move the slider all the way over to the right and reboot! This does not show up in a ABX test. The only way you can see it is by comparing the digital output of your soundcard to the original source.

Its the card itself that resamples. Audigy and SoundBlaster Live cards internally resample everything to 48khz before sending the data on to the DACs. The same applies for recording as well. It records EVERYTHING at 48khz, and then resamples it down to the correct rate. Some argue the resampling procedure in the soundcard DSP is not that great, and that doing it in software is better. Its entirely subjective. Most likely would not hold up under any ABX test.

On pretty much every single modern soundcard using HARDWARE MIXING or hardware acclerated DirectSound output bypasses kimixer. Even on Audigy cards!

Most audio players strangely do not use hardware mixing by default though. In Winamp's preferences double click on the DirectSound output plugin, make sure your soundcard is selected in the output device drop down box and turn the "Hardware Accleration" option ON! It is NOT on by default! Restart Winamp. In most cases this will also solve the problem with Winamp not outputing from all 4 speakers in multispeaker setup.
 

eli

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Cards like the emu don't have to resample with hardware.
 

zachary80

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eli said:
how do you know if ASIO or kernel streaming is working with foobar?

If kernel streming is set and you are getting sound, it is working. Otherwise nothing would go through.
 

eli

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well, the kernel streaming dll is in the components folder...there is no way of enabling it...thats all i need right?
 

NightRaven

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No, there is a way to enable it. Go to your output settings and switch it to Kernel Streaming. Be sure you set your output device properly in the KS settings also.
 
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