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What's so great about Eizo monitors??
- Thread starter Luba Cox
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1. A couple of extra high level models for professionals (those models are actually behind the scene of monitor market) drop pricey shadow on the whole model line.
2. Top Eizos offer same or near the same level of advance picture quality solutions as NEC does, but utilizes mid-level panels (PVA) while NEC utilizes top level H-IPS.
3. Some improvements over regular mid-level models like Dell never justify doubled price. That's why Eizos are not included in recommended lists (too low value for money).
4. Target market segment: snobs and noobs.
2. Top Eizos offer same or near the same level of advance picture quality solutions as NEC does, but utilizes mid-level panels (PVA) while NEC utilizes top level H-IPS.
3. Some improvements over regular mid-level models like Dell never justify doubled price. That's why Eizos are not included in recommended lists (too low value for money).
4. Target market segment: snobs and noobs.
Ah, great top level monitors at, of course, top level prices, and their lower level monitors living off the reputation of their best monitors. So the EIZO FlexScan S2242W which is under $900 is not a good deal? I don't mind that it's 22" I was thinking of either the HP LP2475w or the Apple 24" LED Cinema Display, but for both it's a bit of a lottery to get a good one. I am willing to go to 22" and get the Eizo if it's the same quality AND not have to worry about their quality control. I am a bit of a gamer and the EIZO FlexScan S2242W has a pretty good response time. I don't think it's an IPS though, that a big deal? Lastly, what issues would there be in fitting in a 1920 x 1200 resolution into a 22"? I know if it was a 17" the text can be small, but I think at 22" the text would be an ok size and the pic would be sharp??
I would not spend 900 on a 22" monitor... I would rather get a 42" Sony Bravia or something along those lines. Size does matter... Let me tell you, I could care less if the my enemy's brown pupils are 1.579% not brown... As long as they are big enough to hit =)
I would get a dell monitor.
I would get a dell monitor.
agreed, nearly a grand for a 22" monitor....
big 24-30" PC monitor, or (as you said) 42"+ TV, "as long as they are big enough to hit"
and am I the only one that reads the posts above yours (above DarkCow) as thinly disguised viral marketing?
At the CRT days Eizo monitors were about best monitors money could buy. Here in LCD days the story is bit different as they use rather midrange *VA panel technology even though professional graphics usage would benefit from more color and contrast stable IPS technology. So yes they are quite overpriced even though they do offer slightly better quality monitors (more accurate colors by default and other features) than cheaper ones using same panel technology. But I have a faint memory that Eizo might be ditching VA panels in their future models, but Im not really sure...
Which means they'll be even more ridiculously expensive.
But that would mean that NEC would kick their arse badly in price-quality... again... I doubt Eizo is that dumb, but we will never know until Eizo does release their IPS monitors.
S2242 should be pretty nice. True, it's 22", but consider this: good 17" laptops have 1900x1200 resolution! And it looks and feels great! True, 24" is bigger than 22", no kidding ;-) but it has lower pixel density.
That said, as much as I'd like to have S2242W, I won't pay so much for it (actually, it goes for equivalent of $730 around here; long way to 1k what was mentioned before!)
That said, as much as I'd like to have S2242W, I won't pay so much for it (actually, it goes for equivalent of $730 around here; long way to 1k what was mentioned before!)
Well, they can offer 5 year warranty, becuase you pay a price more than double of an equivalent monitor of other brand.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1429982
Hmm, I wonder how you drew this conclusion. What models did you compare? Sounds like as if you would have compared an S-PVA based Eizo and a TN-based one of some other brand, which is of course incorrect.
Comparing TN based monitors of Eizo and other brands, you get ~15% higher price, but you get nicer (and probably unique in TN field) features with Eizo, as well, like:
- 10 bits (per color gun) image processing, instead of the usual 8 bits;
- 8 bits (per color gun) panel control (with 10 bits LUT), instead of the usual 6 bits + FRC (perhaps latter models of other brands has 8 bits here already);
- usually a better kind of TN panel, that also do not turn into inverse looking at from below;
- much better than usual scaling of non-native resolutions;
- controls like gamma-correction, hue-correction, and especially saturation(!).
Comparing non-TN based (regular) types, you usually get 40-50% higher price for most of the above differences, and 25-30% higher price in case of roughly similar features (though, sometimes different panels [xIPS vs. S-PVA], but usually 2 more bits on Eizo's side). Additionally, Eizo uses its own, fine-tuned method for overdrive (btw, they has been the first to use this technique!) and dynamic contrast.
Regarding Eizo's graphics line, those are truely pricey, but you get even more unique features.
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Sure, whatever.
Add "professionals", "people who make money with accurate monitors" and "people who like the best" and maybe it'll be more believable. (Maybe "people who don't consider lag as the number one deciding factor" too)
Personally, I like the NEC solutions over the Eizo, but Eizo has some great stuff. They've got features the average blogging goof hasn't even thought about - colour blindness simulation modes etc....
No matter what you buy or how good you think it is, you'll find there's another more exotic brand/product out there that makes it look like crap. Eizo is decidedly more up-market and doesn't belong on the same CNET "recommended" lists as Dell or Acer, because most consumers don't need what they offer and the value proposition isn't there.
They do a lot of research on color accuracy, and it's obvious they put some thought into their monitors, but they waste all that effort by using S-PVA panels. What good are all those features when the viewing angles distort the gamma on different parts of the screen even when you're sitting in front of the monitor? I don't understand how so many "professionals" are oblivious to this.
EIZO HD2441W (my own picture):
I also found this...
EIZO CE240W:
It says uneven backlighting, but it's actually the same gamma shift problem.
Oh, here's another one...
EIZO S2410W vs. Dell 3007WFP:
Why should I pay extra for that?
EIZO HD2441W (my own picture):
I also found this...
EIZO CE240W:
It says uneven backlighting, but it's actually the same gamma shift problem.
Oh, here's another one...
EIZO S2410W vs. Dell 3007WFP:
Why should I pay extra for that?
Their FlexScan range is not intended for professional graphicians, for whom there is the ColorEdge range with advanced IPS panels, and a bunch of additional features.
Even so, I don't think the advanced features of FlexScans are wasted because of the S-PVA panel.
It has the vertical gamma (and what else) shift, of course, just they do not turn into inverse.
Here are the feature sets of some of their TN's along with those of Samsung: http://www.prad.de/en/guide/ergebnis_vergleich.html?pradid=77d068bfb731284a6913f73bb992915f&7%5B%5D=0&8%5B%5D=0&10%5B%5D=0&12%5B%5D=0&13%5B%5D=0&14%5B%5D=0&15%5B%5D=0&16%5B%5D=0&17%5B%5D=0&18%5B%5D=0&19%5B%5D=0&20%5B%5D=0&21%5B%5D=0&22%5B%5D=4056&22%5B%5D=4057&22%5B%5D=4054&22%5B%5D=4055&22%5B%5D=4938&22%5B%5D=4939&22%5B%5D=4936&22%5B%5D=4937&22%5B%5D=4231&22%5B%5D=4232&22%5B%5D=4233&22%5B%5D=4234&22%5B%5D=5246&22%5B%5D=5247&22%5B%5D=5248&22%5B%5D=5249&22%5B%5D=5244&22%5B%5D=5245&22%5B%5D=5242&22%5B%5D=5243&22%5B%5D=4266&22%5B%5D=3809&22%5B%5D=3907&22%5B%5D=4378&22%5B%5D=4444&22%5B%5D=3593&22%5B%5D=3906&23%5B%5D=0&24%5B%5D=0&25%5B%5D=0&26%5B%5D=0&27%5B%5D=0&28%5B%5D=0&29%5B%5D=0&30%5B%5D=0&32%5B%5D=0&37%5B%5D=0&38%5B%5D=0&40%5B%5D=0&42%5B%5D=0&45%5B%5D=0&46%5B%5D=0&47%5B%5D=0&50%5B%5D=0&52%5B%5D=0&55%5B%5D=0&56%5B%5D=0&57%5B%5D=0&65%5B%5D=0&70%5B%5D=0&82%5B%5D=0&108%5B%5D=0&order_by=price&order_order=asc&Submit=compare&p=6X&p=5X&p=5X&p=5X&p=5&p=3&p=2&p=1X&p=5&p=2&p=1X&p=5X&p=5&p=1X&p=5&p=3X&p=5&p=2&p=1
As you can see, the Samsungs lack the data for the ratio of 5:1 (for obvious reasons), while Eizos maintain this at 178/178.
I wouldn't call the features I listed in the #16 nothing special. Actually, I won't buy a monitor that lacks them, and most other vendors' monitors do so. Those that have them are usually not that much cheaper...
Though, probably I would go sooner with a Dell or NEC that has such features (usually not all of those, though), as I prefer the more advanced IPS panels, instead of S-PVA. But should I choose between a 8-bit S-PVA and a higher priced 10-bits one (Eizo), I would definitely go with the Eizo. (Same case with TN's -- just I avoid TN's for myself.) I'm glad that Eizo will reintroduce IPS in their moderately priced range.
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I think the main complaint here is the price. I think we can all agree that Eizo makes great quality monitors (I used to have 17" Eizo few years back!). Sure, PVA has gamma shift, but which PVA doesn't?
So the question should rather be: are they worth their pricetag? If I had enough money to spare, I'd probably buy S2242W and live happily ever after.
The EV2333W seems to be slightly cheaper, 23" 16:9 PVA, but it won't hit Europe anytime soon (and is one hell of a UGLY looking monitor!).
So the question should rather be: are they worth their pricetag? If I had enough money to spare, I'd probably buy S2242W and live happily ever after.
The EV2333W seems to be slightly cheaper, 23" 16:9 PVA, but it won't hit Europe anytime soon (and is one hell of a UGLY looking monitor!).
Probably the EV2333W will utilize the same C-PVA panel as the Samsung F2380. But I'm almost sure it will perform better in Eizo's hands.
(Think of precise gamma-correction with 10 bits of precision...)
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This is a combination of randomly selected words...if you are serious.
A good joke otherwise.
No, it isn't. But I won't go proving it before you properly explain your opinion...
Or just say you don't get it and need further explanation.
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dannybgoode
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There's a long discussion on the Eizo S2242w versus IPS screens http://http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1436562 - here.
One thing to remember, whilst it is a 22" screen it does have a 1920x1200 resolution. I've got one and if you (can be bothered to ) read the post you'll see that I love mine. I think for the price (£430 in the UK) is pretty competitive.
Its also worth reading the Eizo website under the About tab and read about their manufacturing process and quality control. If its true then it goes some way to explaining the slightly higher cost because some of the QC is almost unheard of in this day and age.
Cheers
Danny B
One thing to remember, whilst it is a 22" screen it does have a 1920x1200 resolution. I've got one and if you (can be bothered to
) read the post you'll see that I love mine. I think for the price (£430 in the UK) is pretty competitive.Its also worth reading the Eizo website under the About tab and read about their manufacturing process and quality control. If its true then it goes some way to explaining the slightly higher cost because some of the QC is almost unheard of in this day and age.
Cheers
Danny B
dannybgoode
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psyside - sorry to disagree with you (again ) but Eizo S2242W = £430, Del 2408 - £400-£440 depending on where you buy.
Eizo has better warranty and an internal 10 bit LUT, the Dell does not plus the Eizo is using the very latest spec S-PVA panel which is honestly not bad at all. Using a control managed app the 'black crush' effect is almost zero. We've discussed the the gamma shift elsewhere but then the Dell suffers from that also
Danny B
) but Eizo S2242W = £430, Del 2408 - £400-£440 depending on where you buy.Eizo has better warranty and an internal 10 bit LUT, the Dell does not plus the Eizo is using the very latest spec S-PVA panel which is honestly not bad at all. Using a control managed app the 'black crush' effect is almost zero. We've discussed the the gamma shift elsewhere but then the Dell suffers from that also
Danny B
psyside - sorry to disagree with you (again
Eizo has better warranty and an internal 10 bit LUT, the Dell does not plus the Eizo is using the very latest spec S-PVA panel which is honestly not bad at all. Using a control managed app the 'black crush' effect is almost zero. We've discussed the the gamma shift elsewhere but then the Dell suffers from that also
Danny B
You are comparing a 24" panel to a 22" panel. To most people that isn't exaclty apples to apples. How much is the 24" Eizo? I couldn't find one under $1000 in Canada, that does put it about double the Dell 24"
Also Eizo warrantys are very conditional.
http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/s2242w/spec.asp
Five Years(5)
5: The usage time is limited to 30,000 hours or less, and the warranty period of the LCD panel is limited to three years from the date of purchase.
So I guess you get 5 years on the plastic case. You get 3 years on the panel or 30 000 hours whichever comes first.
psyside - sorry to disagree with you (again
Eizo has better warranty and an internal 10 bit LUT, the Dell does not plus the Eizo is using the very latest spec S-PVA panel which is honestly not bad at all. Using a control managed app the 'black crush' effect is almost zero. We've discussed the the gamma shift elsewhere but then the Dell suffers from that also
Danny B
Yeah but the Eizo is like $800 in the US. You just get hit by the 1:1 dollars to [your more expensive currency here] exchange rate that is typical of american companies.
dannybgoode
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You are comparing a 24" panel to a 22" panel. To most people that isn't exaclty apples to apples. How much is the 24" Eizo? I couldn't find one under $1000 in Canada, that does put it about double the Dell 24"
Point taken on the warranty but 30,000 hours back light time equates to 16.44 hours a day over five years and I don't have my monitor on that much! I work and sleep also.
As to the screen I know its a 22", I've got one! The Eizo does however run at a native 1920 x 1200 so you are getting the same workable real estate and resolution as a 24" just in a smaller package.
Personally, I have to sit quite close to my screen so I find this an advantage, a 24" is a little too big physically but I do like the higher resolution.
So I guess I am comparing apples with apples but maybe a nice juicy Cox with a Golden Delicious
Thanks
Danny B
dannybgoode
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@snowdog - My apologies, I stand corrected.
@nomu - its good to hear that we in the UK are not the ones getting fleeced by exchange rates for once as its usually the other way round!
Still maintain its a good screen though and bear in mind I did have the HP LP2475W and I do now have the Eizo so I do have working knowledge of both. The HP when the green / pink tinting wasn't an issue was an awesome screen, I almost put up with the problems it was that good. Probably better than the Eizo in many respects.
The Eizo whilst not quite having the depth to a picture gives a very natural, unforced presentation to it. Its very much like looking at a printed piece of paper - albeit with stunning print quality. It is a very very good screen. I found the HP a bit 'Shouty' sometimes if that makes sense - it tried to force the issue sometimes (and yes that is even when using colour managed apps).
It also actually works where the HP didn't and I don't want to be in a position where I'm having to RMA monitors until I get one that is of acceptable quality due to poor QC'ing on the part of the manufacturer. This is simply not an issue with Eizo although I have read very good reports of HP's response to people who do have issues with their screen.
Cheers
Danny B
@nomu - its good to hear that we in the UK are not the ones getting fleeced by exchange rates for once as its usually the other way round!
Still maintain its a good screen though and bear in mind I did have the HP LP2475W and I do now have the Eizo so I do have working knowledge of both. The HP when the green / pink tinting wasn't an issue was an awesome screen, I almost put up with the problems it was that good. Probably better than the Eizo in many respects.
The Eizo whilst not quite having the depth to a picture gives a very natural, unforced presentation to it. Its very much like looking at a printed piece of paper - albeit with stunning print quality. It is a very very good screen. I found the HP a bit 'Shouty' sometimes if that makes sense - it tried to force the issue sometimes (and yes that is even when using colour managed apps).
It also actually works where the HP didn't and I don't want to be in a position where I'm having to RMA monitors until I get one that is of acceptable quality due to poor QC'ing on the part of the manufacturer. This is simply not an issue with Eizo although I have read very good reports of HP's response to people who do have issues with their screen.
Cheers
Danny B
IMO IPS screens are clearly superior if you get a good one. But unfortunately I find LG seems to have poor QC and they are the main supplier of IPS screens (NEC makes some of their own IPS screens but I have not seen one of these).
Odd that dannybgoode talks about looking like a print. To me that is one of the most stunning indictments against PVA tech. I don't do crtical imaging work and my first screen was PVA and it was because everything looked wrong even on forums like this one were the grarys go all shiny toward the edge of the screen that drove me nuts. Prints don't change when you move your head an inch.
My 2490 OTOH does look like a print. No strange shininess. Just beautiful stable image that doesn't change and shift.
I paid an arm an leg just to get a decent stable image. No regrets, but I realize not everyone will drop more than $1K on a 24" screen. I balked at first went through a bunch of alternatives, but in the end I wish I started here. Again I acknowledge LG poor QC and acknowledge that PVA shifting doesn't annoy most people like it does me.
I paid a high price once, but I enjoy the benefits every day for years to come. Well worth IMO.
Odd that dannybgoode talks about looking like a print. To me that is one of the most stunning indictments against PVA tech. I don't do crtical imaging work and my first screen was PVA and it was because everything looked wrong even on forums like this one were the grarys go all shiny toward the edge of the screen that drove me nuts. Prints don't change when you move your head an inch.
My 2490 OTOH does look like a print. No strange shininess. Just beautiful stable image that doesn't change and shift.
I paid an arm an leg just to get a decent stable image. No regrets, but I realize not everyone will drop more than $1K on a 24" screen. I balked at first went through a bunch of alternatives, but in the end I wish I started here. Again I acknowledge LG poor QC and acknowledge that PVA shifting doesn't annoy most people like it does me.
I paid a high price once, but I enjoy the benefits every day for years to come. Well worth IMO.