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What's next for PC audio?

K

kraken0698

[H]ard|Gawd
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I wanted to see if anyone has any ideas or thoughts on what the next big thing for PC audio is going to be? Could it be an X-fi replacement by Creative? Are one of the other big names (Asus, Auzentech.. etc.) working on any new products? Are there any big CES announcements coming in January?

What do you guys think we have to look forward to in the near-future?
 
People taking audio in their own hands with Monitor/receiver setups..Because of the consoles devs dont seem to be putting much thought into sound so PC sound cards arent really advancing much.
 
Next step is going to be about integrated solutions and possibly more/better USB solutions.

People are buying more laptops nowadays and I think improvements will be focused here from now on. Do I think the desktop audio market will be abandoned? No, of course not. I just mean thats where the spotlight might not end up being.
 
There's not really a next step in terms of the system. More and more audio is moving to being done in software. CPUs are more than powerful enough to deal with audio calculations.
 
I agree with you guys. The hardware is there, it's the software that needs to catch up (as always). I tell you what I would love to see... I would love to see binaural or holophonic-type audio integrated into games.

Imagine games with atmospheric, binaural audio. That would be amazing.

More info here with sound clips: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording (clips are best listened to with headphones)
 
Creative's pretty busy with their system-on-a-chip stuff at the moment. I don't expect an X-Fi 2, or anything else for that matter, for quite a while.

It's possible Auzentech is working on something different, but, again, not likely.

Software is slowly advancing, though. Crysis was evidence of the fact that you can do a lot with a CPU, even when it's busy doing a ton of other seemingly more important work.
 
kraken0698 said:
I agree with you guys. The hardware is there, it's the software that needs to catch up (as always). I tell you what I would love to see... I would love to see binaural or holophonic-type audio integrated into games.

Imagine games with atmospheric, binaural audio. That would be amazing.

More info here with sound clips: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording (clips are best listened to with headphones)
Click to expand...

The software is there as well (for the most part). Look at most of Valve's games - they have a good headphone option, and also look about 11 years into the past and look at a former company known as Aureal. They had HRTF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function) done quite well IMO with A3D. FYI: Aureal was bought up by Creative.
 
The problem you run in to with HRTF type stuff and being "good" is that headphones don't track your head movement. That means the soundstage rotates with your head and your brain goes "That's wrong." That's the big thing holding it back form sounding better, and not something with an easy fix. I'm also not sure that it is something they are that interested in fixing, since so many people use surround sound systems. It's kinda a case of if you want realistic surround, get surround speakers.
 
See, I thought headphones would be more of a priority since more people are able to be mobile now, with laptops now cheaper than ever. Why isn't the HRTF problem being fixed? Isn't there some kind of small sensor you could attach to your headphones to make the system work?
 
Well, there's the Beyer Headzone if you want to go the head-tracking route.

Of course, that system is prohibitively expensive:

With head tracking -- $2500

Without head tracking -- $2000

Then there's the Smyth Realiser system which is supposed to be in a league of it's own. True, flawless surround-sound from headphones with head tracking. This system is about $3000, although it does come with a pair of Stax headphones!

Maybe soon we will see a more consumer-friendly version of this technology.
 
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honestly I see the most immediate "big thing" being a wider range of products with HD format support, like Asus' HDAV, but coming out of the super-expensive realm, or more HTPC geared products, like HT Omega's Claro Halo XT

the laptop market is quickly absorbing the majority of mainstream computer users, however "desktops" are starting to exist in a new role: HTPCs

and it may not be on discrete solutions, consider HDMI audio from videocards, or onboard solutions, its quickly moving towards the HTPC role
 
In my case, just a better implimentation of HDMI audio from the ATI cards would do it.
Right now it's a little buggy, and not everything supports it...but it's getting closer.
If I could get some X-Fi like options for my 5870 audio-out I'd take my X-Fi out and be done with it. Even just a full-time 5.1 option like Dolby Digital Live. My framerates/performance are the same using the 5870 to do PCM 5.1 are the same as a dedicated X-Fi. Plus, it'll do lossless audio for movies as well.
It's literally down to better software IMO.
As the price for these cards drop (or as they release lower-end 5x series cards) and if they ever bother to put in some really drivers/configutation options, you'll have an all-in-one solution.
 
General computer audio is going nowhere, because it is currently "good enough." Today's on-board audio solutions (assuming you don't pay bottom-dollar) will play back music without crackling, will handle most game audio well, and provide a decent multi-speaker experience (for the type who buy Logitech 5.1 sets). 2.0 stereo continues to be the dominant format.

Mid and high-end audio will continue to be a niche just like it's been for 50 years. Costs can't really get lower than they already are because of two things: power transistors require a certain physical size to handle a certain amount of current, regardless of the process you use. And DACs are still inherently analog, so the production of these devices (to tight tolerances demanded by high-end audio) will never be cheap.

Only digital circuits can take advantage of process improvements (smaller transistors need less charge to switch, and thus can use less power and switch faster). This means that receivers/sound cards will continue to add more gadgets and more audio codecs as available processing power increases. But overall, the audio quality will not change.
 
Robots. Little ones that play musical instruments.

Problem is, the instruments can get expensive even before you attach the robots and pay for software licenses...
 
I expect a "slow" increase in better high quality PC audio packages as more people try out HTPC's connected to their good quality living room speakers or simply experience better computer audio elsewhere. And when they go back to the computer audio they used to think was ok, they'll now notice how poor it really is and expect something better.

Just like monitors. You have a 15" monitor and because that's all you know, you think it's ok. One day your Dad upgrades you to a great big 17" and you now have no idea how you could have throught 15" was actually ok. And you can never go back from your huge 17" monitor because your standards have changed.

Well one day more and more people are going to find out how poor most computer audio really is, their standards will improve, and consumers will expect better quality audio without having to mess around researching and building a decent passive/seperates system.
 
echn111 said:
I expect a "slow" increase in better high quality PC audio packages as more people try out HTPC's connected to their good quality living room speakers or simply experience better computer audio elsewhere. And when they go back to the computer audio they used to think was ok, they'll now notice how poor it really is and expect something better.

Just like monitors. You have a 15" monitor and because that's all you know, you think it's ok. One day your Dad upgrades you to a great big 17" and you now have no idea how you could have throught 15" was actually ok. And you can never go back from your huge 17" monitor because your standards have changed.

Well one day more and more people are going to find out how poor most computer audio really is, their standards will improve, and consumers will expect better quality audio without having to mess around researching and building a decent passive/seperates system.
Click to expand...

You're dreaming.

I spent a Saturday watching "the future of audio" two weeks back as two women took over my kitchen to bake. While one was baking, the other would sit at my girlfriend's netbook and stream Youtube music and videos, and mp3s (high-quality LAME VBR audio from my library). For hours, they just listened to the crappy, tinny speakers on the netbook instead of plugging into the set of AV40s I keep right there in the kitchen.

They didn't give a crap what their audio sounded like, it was "good enough." These are the same people you're expecting to realize one day that their audio sounds like crap. I personally have lost any faith in an audio upheaval, seeing as I'm the only person I know who has ever gotten interested in quality audio.
 
I don't claim to be any kind of audiophile - can't usually distinguish quality above 192 kbps - but I agree that earbuds, youtube music, tinny little ipod speakers, etc. have diminished people's music quality standards down to the level of AM radio. It's dissappointing, even for me. The worst is when people play music through their cell phone speakers.
 
defaultluser said:
You're dreaming.

I spent a Saturday watching "the future of audio" two weeks back as two women took over my kitchen to bake. While one was baking, the other would sit at my girlfriend's netbook and stream Youtube music and videos, and mp3s (high-quality LAME VBR audio from my library). For hours, they just listened to the crappy, tinny speakers on the netbook instead of plugging into the set of AV40s I keep right there in the kitchen.

They didn't give a crap what their audio sounded like, it was "good enough." These are the same people you're expecting to realize one day that their audio sounds like crap. I personally have lost any faith in an audio upheaval, seeing as I'm the only person I know who has ever gotten interested in quality audio.
Click to expand...


Oh that's right. I went there!
 
defaultluser said:
General computer audio is going nowhere, because it is currently "good enough." Today's on-board audio solutions (assuming you don't pay bottom-dollar) will play back music without crackling, will handle most game audio well, and provide a decent multi-speaker experience (for the type who buy Logitech 5.1 sets). 2.0 stereo continues to be the dominant format.

Mid and high-end audio will continue to be a niche just like it's been for 50 years. Costs can't really get lower than they already are because of two things: power transistors require a certain physical size to handle a certain amount of current, regardless of the process you use. And DACs are still inherently analog, so the production of these devices (to tight tolerances demanded by high-end audio) will never be cheap.

Only digital circuits can take advantage of process improvements (smaller transistors need less charge to switch, and thus can use less power and switch faster). This means that receivers/sound cards will continue to add more gadgets and more audio codecs as available processing power increases. But overall, the audio quality will not change.
Click to expand...

Too many variables for most people to get into. To this day I could not point out a place on the web with truly high quality sample flac files for people to test listen.

And NOT just be encoded as flac from a random cd, but a recording that was a higher tier recording. Not all cd recordings are the same.

After that, you have to worry about your source. Personally I am using

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006

But what I'd prefer even more was a sound card that dropped the 5.1/7.1 and just focused on the best possible stereo output for the lowest cost - with some margin, just not stupid margin.

I listen to music/games/everything on my desktop using

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0B5K2DB50BH2H507A6GN



And you know what is worst of all? I have no clue what I am missing by going higher. To hear some of the comments on this very thread, one would think the entire sea of pc audio hardware/software leaves you with a shadow of the audio that is out there. And exactly how bad do I have it compared to a headphone/amp setup costing upwards of 3k? I have no idea, and no way of finding out if they are talking about onboard comparisons, or if even my slightly upgraded card is still a gutter level experience. There are cards costing twice the price. And surely more that go even higher than that. But how can people know exactly what extra they are getting without breaking the bank?


I have not, and will not drop thousands more dollars on audio, specifically if I have no way of HEARING the difference in quality before hand. Where would I go to do this? best buy with those "beats" headphones?

the reviews are universally positive, and yet those in the "know" would not rate them highly, giving them low marks on esoteric concepts like "soundstage" and cleaner and whatever else.


How are people supposed to know quality? I WANT to know and it is damn hard finding good first hand info. I love my current headphones, but I ultimately had no clue on their quality beyond online reviews and seeking out responses from people who tried them + others.

Messy. Far too muddled a task for the common consumer. Even for me. I do not want to live in the dark of audio, the gutter, but to crawl out is both expensive, and irritating as you never really know if you are settling for 10th best. Not based on online reviews, different shapes of ear canals, different people with variations on what is more pleasing to them.

It never ends !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
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tybert7 said:
Too many variables for most people to get into. To this day I could not point out a place on the web with truly high quality sample flac files for people to test listen.

And NOT just be encoded as flac from a random cd, but a recording that was a higher tier recording. Not all cd recordings are the same.

After that, you have to worry about your source. Personally I am using

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829132006

But what I'd prefer even more was a sound card that dropped the 5.1/7.1 and just focused on the best possible stereo output for the lowest cost - with some margin, just not stupid margin.

I listen to music/games/everything on my desktop using

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0B5K2DB50BH2H507A6GN



And you know what is worst of all? I have no clue what I am missing by going higher. To hear some of the comments on this very thread, one would think the entire sea of pc audio hardware/software leaves you with a shadow of the audio that is out there. And exactly how bad do I have it compared to a headphone/amp setup costing upwards of 3k? I have no idea, and no way of finding out if they are talking about onboard comparisons, or if even my slightly upgraded card is still a gutter level experience. There are cards costing twice the price. And surely more that go even higher than that. But how can people know exactly what extra they are getting without breaking the bank?


I have not, and will not drop thousands more dollars on audio, specifically if I have no way of HEARING the difference in quality before hand. Where would I go to do this? best buy with those "beats" headphones?

the reviews are universally positive, and yet those in the "know" would not rate them highly, giving them low marks on esoteric concepts like "soundstage" and cleaner and whatever else.


How are people supposed to know quality? I WANT to know and it is damn hard finding good first hand info. I love my current headphones, but I ultimately had no clue on their quality beyond online reviews and seeking out responses from people who tried them + others.

Messy. Far too muddled a task for the common consumer. Even for me. I do not want to live in the dark of audio, the gutter, but to crawl out is both expensive, and irritating as you never really know if you are settling for 10th best. Not based on online reviews, different shapes of ear canals, different people with variations on what is more pleasing to them.

It never ends !!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Your source is fine. You can do better, but your source is already at about %90 of what a top-end DAC + Filter could deliver. Going up to %95 will cost you hundreds of dollars, and getting that last %5 will cost you thousands. Unless you like spending money on useless things, don't go the route of highest dollar - just stick with what you like.

Some people can actually hear the difference. Some people convince themselves they can hear a difference. But most people wouldn't notice a thing if you blind ABXed a test between the Xonar and a top-end DAC.

The good thing is, you CAN demo some of these things if you look around.
 
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defaultluser said:
You're dreaming.

I spent a Saturday watching "the future of audio" two weeks back as two women took over my kitchen to bake. While one was baking, the other would sit at my girlfriend's netbook and stream Youtube music and videos, and mp3s (high-quality LAME VBR audio from my library). For hours, they just listened to the crappy, tinny speakers on the netbook instead of plugging into the set of AV40s I keep right there in the kitchen.

They didn't give a crap what their audio sounded like, it was "good enough." These are the same people you're expecting to realize one day that their audio sounds like crap. I personally have lost any faith in an audio upheaval, seeing as I'm the only person I know who has ever gotten interested in quality audio.
Click to expand...

I hear what you're saying. My eyes (and ears) were opened when I decided to play some of my BluRay's on my PC instead of my living room system. What I thought was decent sound before became unacceptable as my standards changed.

But you're right - I suppose I'm in a minority having a decent TV and sound system in my living room and liking gadgets like Blu Ray and high definition TV and sound.

But I do expect more and more people to be exposed to better sound (and vision), especially with a number of companies spending millions on promoting the whole "high definition" multimedia experience, both visual and sound. This will happen and is already happening. Sure people will focus on the visual part first, but many will also want to take advantage of the high def sound as well. And if they decide to try it out on their PC's, they may find their standards have changed....

So absolutely yes I expect standards to improve over time. And I expect people to slowly change their standards regarding PC sound...But very very slowly.
 
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