Whatever happened to removable batteries?

Discussion in 'Smart Phones and Devices' started by blade12, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    Hello,

    I have a Galaxy s6 since like 2015. Within 2yrs, the battery started to quickly deteriorate. I began having to recharge constantly to the point that I was using powerbank just to use the phone. It has been my habit for many years to read an ebook while listening to music, but every minute, I would lose 2% battery. I would be lucky to get 40mins of use without powerbank. I decided to get battery replaced at a local phone repair shop for $65 (retail Samsung store costs like $100). Battery was great for 10 months, but I am back to same issue. It's not worth getting ANOTHER battery replaced at repair shop for $65 so I'm done. I can get trade-in for $80 even with bad battery so It's gone. Good riddance.

    Now I'm realizing no phones nowadays have removable battery? What's up with that? Do any recent decent phones have removable battery?? Is it even manufactured anymore? This is insane. I want removable battery so I can replace bad battery easily myself for cheap rather than having some tech crack open my phone every 2-3yrs and yearly after that (unnecessary labor costs + tax). It seems this is all a money-making grab by these smartphone companies to not have removable battery so people buy whole new phone whenever battery goes bad.

    BTW I refuse to trade-in a phone to get new phone every time the battery bugs out. I only buy new phone when old one dies -- I am not one of those who buy new phone every year or 2. I don't have money for that or desire even to do so. I also want to minimize waste on my end in my life.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
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  2. tedych

    tedych Limp Gawd

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    You can rant forever but this is it. You are forced to get whatever there is on the market and all are non-removables.
    But I think it's not that bad nowadays with (built-in) batteries, unless you happen to run across a make and model known for its bad battery. Maybe you just avoid Samsungs in the future :) .
    Last years with built-in batteries, family etc, we didn't have to think about batteries for the life of the phones, which is average 3 years. "Big" phone makers have (had?) some issues with fast dying battery, even iphones have had such issues.
    So, you are essentially with no choice but take the plunge with a phone with non-removable battery. Good luck :) .
     
  3. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    I guess it's disappointing.. All phones seem to now have 1yr warranty as well because I feel like they know batteries start to plummet in performance within 2yrs.
    And that's when people have to go buy new 600$ phone. Most won't be tech savvy enough to realize they need battery replacement and will opt to buy new phone, thinking their phone is going bad (even battery replacement is expensive - $100 for battery replacement at official store is nuts! May as well trade-in phone). Smartphone companies essentially have us by the balls.

    So which phones do you know have batteries not known to be crappy? I'm pretty much down to whatever is on Verizon store unless if there is an unlocked phone I could get retail. I'm probably sticking to Android.

    Looking at Pixel 3 maybe.. LG G7 possible but I reckon it's not worth $250 more than Pixel 3. I can look at Galaxy s9 too through Samsung's trade-in program..
     
  4. viscountalpha

    viscountalpha 2[H]4U

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    It's bullshit, but the manufacturers wanted to take away aftermarket batteries so- They made non-removable batteries. it's complete garbage but that's how it is.
     
  5. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    Get a used v10 or v20 with a gasp, removable battery and headphones jack. Beautiful dac too.
    1440p screen, great 4k cam, what the fuck is a s12 iphone 15 going to do any better but drain my wallet? A v10 costs a hundred bucks ffs.
    Getting a 6k mah battery with qi for it soon too ;)
     
  6. T4rd

    T4rd [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Sealed phones haven't stopped me from replacing the batteries. I replaced the battery in my One M8 (along with the USB port that stopped working), Nexus 6P, and anticipate doing it again in my Pixel 2 XL before I replace it in another year or so. It's not really too hard on phones that aren't glass sandwiches (like Samsung phones). I did it for about $10 and 45 mins of my time each time. Fortunately, my 2 XL has a two year warranty though, so I'm definitely going to try to get Google to either replace my battery or phone if the battery has degraded significantly before the warranty is up. I suggest you do the same if you get a newer LG phone since they have two year warranty (that you spent l apparently have to register them for to get it though).
     
  7. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    It’s tradeoffs. You may not care about the upsides, but these companies did them all for the same reasons.

    One, an integrated battery takes up less space than a removable one. So the devices are smaller and thinner. They also can take up a greater percentage of the cavity on the inside of the phone meaning the mah can be higher if given the same size.

    The other major reason is the move to ip rated phones for dust and water resistance. Say what you will, but for most folks, having a phone that will survive a toilet or a drop into a puddle during a rain storm is a much bigger deal than having a removable battery.

    And finally, what some others have said above. It is what it is. There are no other options. Although I will say that $100 for an official battery isn’t that bad considering that it includes installation, warranty, and you’ll have the knowledge that your ip rating is in tact.
     
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  8. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    V20 only goes to Android 8. Would that be okay? It's up to Android 9 now, and I'm sure it will continue.

    Interesting, I didn't know that about LG. I might look into that.

    As for opening sealed phones, it depends I guess. Some are easier to replace batteries in than others.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  9. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    I'm sorry but those reasons are not good enough.

    Batteries have gotten small enough that simple engineering would easily overcome first issue and second issue is design dependable. Engineering would require bit more capital to include removable battery & still be ip-rated, but easy solution would be to create 2 variations of same phone. They already do now so the cheaper phone could include replaceable battery with no dust/water resistance and plus edition bit more expensive without replaceable battery but be water/dust resistant. Then you let the market run its course. But we all know most people will choose the former phone and the company would lose out on potential profits since the battery would be easy to replace. These companies answer to their shareholders in the end where profits count louder than anything..

    I'm sorry but that's not enough to make me buy new phone every 3yrs or spend $100 just to get battery replaced. Better off buying new phone unless if you are willing to do it yourself or go to a third-party (third-party was bad experience for me so not worth risk).
     
  10. AltTabbins

    AltTabbins [H]ard as it Gets

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    I wouldn’t count on it. I’ve read articles that said LG has no plans to upgrade the V20 anymore. It’s probably the only downside to a phenomenal phone.
     
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  11. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    I normally would quote break, but I’m on my phone and cutting and pasting is a hassle. So, that said, point by point.

    First, I’m not the one you need to apologize to.

    Second, if you’re an engineer who has a lot of knowledge about product design, enough to know what a designer can and can’t do with the space then you’re part of the problem. Because you aren’t fixing it.

    I can’t say I know everything there is to know about IP rating, but I can say this: I work with cameras and the housing necessary for a camera body to go underwater is extensive. Granted water resistance isn’t the same as water proof, but it’s not uncommon for a housing to exceed the cost of the camera (when working with dslr’s. Cinema cameras are a different story). So, that all said, any point of ingress for water is serious business. You seem to think slapping on a rubber seal onto either side of plastic will be sufficient. I won’t say that I know all there is to know, but I’m certain that isn’t enough. And frankly I don’t have an interest in going back to the rice desiccant days.

    Fourth: phone companies do what the market dictates and what the market allows. If they aren’t making two models it’s because it isn’t cost effective to do so or beneficial to do so. Samsung as an example has “gotten rid” of edge models and merged a bunch of series (now all models are edge models). There is no market value for them to increase their product lines so that a small niche will buy them. If you don’t like the way that tastes, tough. They’re here to make money from you. And make what will sell to the maximum amount of people. Not just what a tiny subset wants. If it was a valuable niche then there would be people playing to that niche. One by one they all went away because frankly, as much product knowledge and demand as you think you know/have, clearly these companies have more. Enough to have each of them individually make the choice to say removable batteries are not worth supporting.

    Finally, you going to a third party is on you. Considering most new phones are $800+ for a flagship, a $100 investment 2 years in to extend the life of a phone for another 2 years is a relatively minor investment. Especially considering you’re not incurring the buy in cost over again. I’m good with replacing my battery and using the same phone for 4 years at a one time total cost of $900. If you want to spend $1600 in the same time frame, that’s your perogative. If you can’t do simple math to see which number is bigger or smaller I can’t help you. And if a non-removable battery is an excuse to upgrade every 2 years then that is your choice. But don’t claim that there isn’t a choice to be made or a way to come out ahead financially.
     
  12. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    Reason is simple: $$$$.

    It's all about maximizing profits, and we know batteries tend to be the primary limiting factor to the life of a phone. If you sack the ability to replace batteries without a complex process, the average person will automatically go buy new phone when their phone stops holding charge for long rather than spend $100 for battery change (most people are not tech-savvy so they won't even realize it's the battery rather than the whole phone going bad). It's a big game to these companies, and I'm sure they do psychoanalysis to study patterns of people. I'm certain they know way more than I do because they funded/researched all this to figure out how to juice out profits from an overly saturated market where over 2.5 billion people already own a smartphone. In the end, it always comes down to money.

    You are right about one thing though - if people are willing to pay for it then there's nothing for me to say. I'm sure these companies are not as successful in say China or India with these practices since the average person can't pay as much as we are able to out here in the West. We live in a consumerism market - Apple, samsung, LG, Sony, all know it.

    Btw- my phone is worth $80 if I were to trade it in. Do you see the benefit of spending $100 on that where battery replacement costs more than the phone itself? I don't believe you get any warranty on battery replacement afaik.. If it goes bad in another year, I am back to square one..
     
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  13. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Sure. We're talking about multi-billion/trillion dollar, multi-national corporations. Money is always the driving factor. However, I think it's reductionist to say that all of this is to be 'jerks' while ignoring the market impetuses and forces that caused them to do it.
    The long and the short is: if having a removable battery was a make or break decision for a majority of the market, every phone would have a removable battery. That is 100% the truth. But it's obvious that it's not. And because it's not, there is more to say on the subject than simply: $$$$.


    Creating low cost phones is a priority for Apple, Samsung, et al. There is half of the world's population in two countries. Believe me when I say they are working on inroads. But quite frankly, both Samsung and Apple are creating devices that are incredibly technically advanced and as a result cost a lot. The bleeding edge always costs significantly more than midrange. You more or less start getting really big diminishing returns, 40% more cost for perhaps 10% more improvement. Which is why people complain about the cost of flagships and then talk about how reasonable the cost of midrange makers like OnePlus. Which is fine, but OnePlus wouldn't be able to make an equivalent phone to a Galaxy or iPhone for less than what Samsung or Apple is charging, without having an unreasonably low margin.

    Anyway, that's flipping the argument the other way around, Apple and Samsung are figuring out their low cost strategies. Apple as an example wants to have a premium device that they charge less for. Which is why the SE was made. Obviously that still wasn't the success they were hoping for, so they're back making a new strategy. I can't speak for what Samsung is doing, but generally they have low end/low market phones anyway (in addition to their high end flagships, that wasn't an insult).


    That depends. Do you want to save money? At the end of the day, replacing a battery for <$100, which is still less than buying a new $800+ device. It's your money. If you want to keep buying new phones every two years, that is a choice you can make. If you're happy with the speed of your device and all it needs is a new battery then you can save yourself cash.

    I don't even know what device you're using. My device is 3 gens back at this point, and I'm likely going to wait another year before moving to something else. And when I do make that jump, it will likely be used saving me another 25-35%.
     
  14. Blown 89

    Blown 89 2[H]4U

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    Like it or not but those are the reasons. Combine that with the perception that plastic removable backs make for a cheap feeling phone and you have your answer.
     
  15. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    I ended up going with Pixel 3 (non-XL). Verizon had $200 off, and I traded my Galaxy s6 for $80.. I like Pixel 3 -- much better software than Samsung.

    Pixel has so much less bloatware garbage installed compared to Samsung.. Jeez, no idea why Samsung installs so much garbage on their phones. Pixel is smoother and you can tell Google has focused a lot of resources on it. Doesn't even feel like Android tbh at Android 9. I am coming from Android 7 so it is going to take some time to get used to a very different feel.

    Side buttons feel bit odd with power button and volume buttons both on same side; buttons do feel much stiffer compared to my galaxy s6. No 3.5mm connection anymore makes me bit sad =[

    No physical home button, back button and app button anymore at the bottom feels bit naked lol. I keep trying to hit it by mistake. Everyone copying Apple now omfg.. lol
     
  16. Krispy Kritter

    Krispy Kritter Limp Gawd

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    Most of the bloat in my last few phones (Samsungs...also from Verizon), are Verizon installed and locked, not a requirement of Samsung. Compare a phone supplied by Verizon to the same phone from another vendor.
     
  17. blade12

    blade12 Limp Gawd

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    There were quite a few such locked things installed on my samsung - especially garbage apps like facebook, instagram, etc (about 6-7 different garbage apps taking up needless space) that I couldn't remove, only disable. I did data transfer with app transfer so all of those apps ended up on my pixel - I uninstalled them all without any issue.

    But yeah, it could be Verizon force-installing them & locking in place. I don't know..
     
  18. Kajun614

    Kajun614 [H]Lite

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    lol someone told me the non removable batteries same about from law enforcement request. aka can track phone if turned off cause it still has power.

    I for one dont miss how thick phones used to be.
     
  19. UnknownSouljer

    UnknownSouljer [H]ardness Supreme

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    Paranoia. But if that's a concern getting a signal blocking bag for your phone is something you can do. LEO's can't magically change physics.