What would get you to switch to linux from windows?

D

Darakian

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
4,698
Going off the other thread I'm going to guess game support is a big one. Aside from games though what sort of features or properties would get you windows people to make the switch?
 
If the fact that Linux (as a kernel and as part of distributions making it part of a complete operating system) being completely free of cost since day one hasn't been enough to get me to use it, at this point nothing ever will. Not even the fact that I can run practically all of my typical Windows applications on Linux using WINE or Crossover is enough to get me to use Linux as a daily runner operating system.

Yes, even in spite of me having used Linux in a wide variety of situations since pre-Slackware 1.0 days (reaching back to the earliest releases by Linus because it seemed like a cool thing to keep up with), I really dislike Linux that much. It's a personal choice, and frankly Linux and I simply do not mesh well together. :D
 
So, The MAIN THING keeping me from running Linux?

Scenario 1:

I want to a thing!

Okay, so you want to learn to do the thing?

Yes. Please tech me how to do the thing.

Okay, open the console and....

*the sound of me installing Windows.


Sorry dudes. GUI exists for a reason. Some people's brains literally can't think in lines of text: This is why I can program a photo realistic tessellated, highly efficient water shader in UE's node-based material creation GUI but I can't get 'hello world' to print in C++. I've tried to learn code, and if I sit down and force myself to do it, I can get basic things going, but at 1/3 the learning pace of just about everyone else. Console commands are pretty much the same thing.

As soon as someone asks me to open a console to do anything other than a single-serve function like tcpip or sfc in windows, my brain stops working. If the console REALLY was the best way to get things going, we wouldn't need GUIs, yet, look around: GUI's everywhere: with billions and billions of dollars put into updating them and improving them.

Fix that, and I'll try Linux.
 
Full GUI experience. That sudo stuff confuses me once I get past the point of all my basic installs. Never was good at command line stuff.
 
Do we really need another thread based around this topic? This is literally identical to the 'If you want to switch from Windows to Linux thread'?!
 
KazeoHin said:
So, The MAIN THING keeping me from running Linux?

Scenario 1:

I want to a thing!

Okay, so you want to learn to do the thing?

Yes. Please tech me how to do the thing.

Okay, open the console and....

*the sound of me installing Windows.


Sorry dudes. GUI exists for a reason. Some people's brains literally can't think in lines of text: This is why I can program a photo realistic tessellated, highly efficient water shader in UE's node-based material creation GUI but I can't get 'hello world' to print in C++. I've tried to learn code, and if I sit down and force myself to do it, I can get basic things going, but at 1/3 the learning pace of just about everyone else. Console commands are pretty much the same thing.

As soon as someone asks me to open a console to do anything other than a single-serve function like tcpip or sfc in windows, my brain stops working. If the console REALLY was the best way to get things going, we wouldn't need GUIs, yet, look around: GUI's everywhere: with billions and billions of dollars put into updating them and improving them.

Fix that, and I'll try Linux.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but if you're afraid of console you're not [H] at all. GUI is for general consumers who have their tv-dinner set ready for them. Want a steak? Too complicated to make it. Requires reading instructions...

For me to switch BACK to windows would require:

1) Free cost
2) Freedom to operate your OS as you choose, not how MS chooses
3) No spyware
4) No adware
5) A total turn of direction with security to be able to confidently use the OS for anything critical

Having said that I do use Apple. I never had problems paying for good hardware and since I get Apple products for work benefit, I like to use them. Also OSX being minix based is very nice. I feel almost as at home in OSX command line as I do in linux.
 
That doesn't mean you need to absolutely insult people that have a hard time with coding and command lines.
 
The operating system is a tool. Some people treat it like a religion, but I guess some people look at their tools (snap-on vs. craftsman) the same way too!

I use my tools to get a job done. I don't use my tools so I can spend lots of time tinkering with my tools. I have a job to get done, and I grab the right tool for the job.

For Linux, you have to tinker with it to get it to work right. And once you got one thing to work, you just broke something else. Then the kernel updates, and all your programs update, and because of dependencies, you just have 100 new programs installed on your computer, and each one of those now need updated.

Then there is what is considered the "fun" part of Linux distros - the choices! You can't just install GNOME, KDE, XFCE, i3, Windowmaker, etc., you have to try them all to figure out which one works best. Seems kind of like Pokemon - "Gotta try 'em all!" Find all the tweaks to make it work just right for you, then once you are happy, gotta try something different or new. Every time I have used a Linux distro, I have that nagging feeling in the back of my head that there is something "better" out there I need to try. Maybe I should try Mint instead of Fedora, or how does SUSE compare? Should I have gone more customized like Slackware, or Gentoo or Arch?

After hours, days, and sometimes over a week of tweaking and configuring, I can finally use a Linux distro the way I want (or I just live with it's "peculiarities"). Until I need to try something different.

With Windows, I install it, spend about 10 minutes on some quick customizations, then start using the computer for what it was meant to do.

Oh, one more thing. I suppose there are some new support forums available, though nothing like TechNet, that are good, kind, and helpful. But when I was heavily trying to use Linux, and I had a problem, most of the forum support answers ranged between "RTFM" and "That was asked and answered three years ago, learn how to use search."

Fix all this, and add native Microsoft Office support, and I could switch.
 
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All the Linux distros are too fragmented to get to the point that Windows is at. It would take a ton of money to get it there, and then you'd have an OS that needs to be bought.

All I can hear is "PAY for a distro?!? PFFF..."

It's an endless Linux highway with no off-ramps to a decent market share.
 
B00nie said:
Even windows admins who know anything about their job use powershell. It's just pretty much how it goes...
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Did you just compare being a Windows Admin as a professional to general desktop use?

Back in the day I was a hardcore DOS junkie that thrived with the command prompt. I wrote custom config.sys and autoexec.bat files to maximize my free conventional memory for games and wrote complex batch files for various uses. Now that we're in 2016 that feels like an eternity ago because for so long now I've been able to do 99% of what I need to do in Windows without touching a command prompt. Not so with Linux. You guys keep pushing your almost finished, almost modern OS, wondering out loud why people don't use it. As noted above when people try it out and ask for help the community is often rude as you've been here, yet you wonder why people don't flock to Linux. Those who claim to love and support Linux are their own worst enemy.
 
Been on this forum for 13 years, and I swear this is the same discussion as when I joined.

The distro's have improved, but there is something fundamentally wrong to be having the same discussion now as then. Unless it's found and changed, we will be having the same discussion 40 years from now.
 
Monkey34 said:
Unless it's found and changed, we will be having the same discussion 40 years from now.
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You say that like anything will change. For decades it was "Mac vs PC" and now it's "Mac vs PC vs Linux vs iOS vs Android vs Windows Phone vs Xbox vs Playstation vs Wii vs Donald Trump vs Hillary Clinton vs Pepsi vs Coke..." and so on and so forth.

I mean really. :D
 
A VNC Server that is not broken by the light-locker lock screen in Ubuntu.
The game support, I could honestly give or take and I wouldn't care about having to dual boot with Windows 7 or 8.1 just for games.
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to NOT have to restart out of Ubuntu and go into Windows to play DX games, BUT, being on SSD I can deal with the 30 seconds of hassle from Ubuntu restart to usable Explorer desktop.
 
Games are literally the only reason. If Linux ever gets to a point where I can run ALL the games in my Steam library natively, then and only then would I switch.
 
zero2dash said:
A VNC Server that is not broken by the light-locker lock screen in Ubuntu.
The game support, I could honestly give or take and I wouldn't care about having to dual boot with Windows 7 or 8.1 just for games.
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer to NOT have to restart out of Ubuntu and go into Windows to play DX games, BUT, being on SSD I can deal with the 30 seconds of hassle from Ubuntu restart to usable Explorer desktop.
Click to expand...

As stated in the identical thread on this topic, it is entirely possible to log in using the LightDM lock screen under Linux remotely using VNC, I've set it up/done it in the past.
 
BulletDust said:
As stated in the identical thread on this topic, it is entirely possible to log in using the LightDM lock screen under Linux remotely using VNC, I've set it up/done it in the past.
Click to expand...

In an effort to not duplicate post, check the other thread. :)
I know you can do that - it's not an issue with x11vnc as a service in Ubuntu.
 
B00nie said:
Even windows admins who know anything about their job use powershell. It's just pretty much how it goes...
Click to expand...

Yeah that's the thing. I'm not a sysadmin: I'm a 3D artist and hardware technician. In fact, I'd say that people who can use powershell properly consist of less than 0.01% of the population. Saying that one must both know and prefer console commands in order to be [H] is like me saying that you have to retopologise your asset in Maya in order to be a 'real' artist. Its just plain bunk.
 
KazeoHin said:
Yeah that's the thing. I'm not a sysadmin: I'm a 3D artist and hardware technician. In fact, I'd say that people who can use powershell properly consist of less than 0.01% of the population. Saying that one must both know and prefer console commands in order to be [H] is like me saying that you have to retopologise your asset in Maya in order to be a 'real' artist. Its just plain bunk.
Click to expand...

You're confusing art and technology, sorry. People who use GUI by definition chew food that someone else cut and cooked ready for them. That's not hard.
 
cyclone3d said:
ALL the programs and games I use MUST run on Linux.

Hardware driver support must also be there. As it is right now, it plain sucks.

Fix those tow things... HAHAHAHAHAHA and I will switch.
Click to expand...

Enjoy you being spied by your owner, Microsoft. Enjoy running antiviruses and still getting owned by malware and viruses. Enjoy using your computer having to worry at each step, with anything you do, that you may be a target of an attack. Not just an attack but, you know, the kind that will actually work! Enjoy using your credit card online or doing banking with a computer that runs an OS that's the number one target of an attack on this planet. Sounds like fun! If you're a masochist.
 
B00nie said:
Enjoy you being spied by your owner, Microsoft. Enjoy running antiviruses and still getting owned by malware and viruses. Enjoy using your computer having to worry at each step, with anything you do, that you may be a target of an attack. Not just an attack but, you know, the kind that will actually work! Enjoy using your credit card online or doing banking with a computer that runs an OS that's the number one target of an attack on this planet. Sounds like fun! If you're a masochist.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... well I currently use Sophos UTM as my router/firewall.

So locked down by default that it is super annoying to get stuff through that needs to get through.

And I practice safe browsing AND don't just click on anything and everything.

Been quite a while since I have gotten any malware/virus.

Credit card - fraudulent use - not liable for and I get a new card and any fraudulent charges removed.

I NEVER use my debit card online.

I also do not allow my computer to save any passwords.

Blah blah blah.. being spied on by MS. Ok.... whatever.
 
B00nie said:
You're confusing art and technology, sorry. People who use GUI by definition chew food that someone else cut and cooked ready for them. That's not hard.
Click to expand...

Well, in that case your definition of [H]ard and nearly everyone elses' definition are entirely different. Technology advances because tools and education become more and more advanced. Do you think that the 1mm surface-mount capacitors were soldered on your mainboard by hand? Spoiler alert: No, they weren't. They were placed on the board by an automated tool that was following a software-generated program. Does that mean your mainboard isn't [H]ard? of course not. How far does this go? How far back along the chain do you want to take your philosophy? What if the mainboard was hand-soldered down to every last component... but the soldering iron was powered by 240v electricity from a grid and not butane? The technician soldering by hand would have been taking the 'easy' way by using electricity generated and modulated to a convenient and standardised 240v by someone else. What if they did use butane... but used Butane from a pre-sealed commercial tank? Did they distil the butane themselves? or are they not [H]ard because they used commercially generated butane that was properly balanced and filtered sealed to regulation by someone else?

Did the technician mine the ore to refine the solder? Did they mix the flux? did they fabricate the PCB? did they wrap the capacitors?

We are all chewing food prepared by someone else. Some of us have the emotional fortitude that such an idea has no baring on our choice of OS. Some of us childishly fool ourselves into believing that because they use a text-based console coded and packaged by someone else they are 'superior' to others. You are 'superior' in the 'hours spent using a console prompt' benchmark, but that has no baring on how [H]ard you are.
 
B00nie said:
Enjoy you being spied by your owner, Microsoft. Enjoy running antiviruses and still getting owned by malware and viruses. Enjoy using your computer having to worry at each step, with anything you do, that you may be a target of an attack. Not just an attack but, you know, the kind that will actually work! Enjoy using your credit card online or doing banking with a computer that runs an OS that's the number one target of an attack on this planet. Sounds like fun! If you're a masochist.
Click to expand...

Anything can be hacked. It's a matter of taking the right precautions like anything else.
 
B00nie said:
Enjoy you being spied by your owner, Microsoft. Enjoy running antiviruses and still getting owned by malware and viruses. Enjoy using your computer having to worry at each step, with anything you do, that you may be a target of an attack. Not just an attack but, you know, the kind that will actually work! Enjoy using your credit card online or doing banking with a computer that runs an OS that's the number one target of an attack on this planet. Sounds like fun! If you're a masochist.
Click to expand...

"Have you tried running it with wine?"
"Didn't work? Oh it's super easy, just run this (insert small novel here) in terminal!"
"Oh I know what that error is, you are just missing repositoties, run (insert medium novel here) and you are good to go".
"Still not working? You are running Debian right? Oh, Ubuntu? Uninstall it and install Arch"
"Did you redo the steps I mentioned before and it's still not working? What gpu do you have? Shit, you should have said you have an AMD card, that changes everything. Go buy an Nvidia card, AMD drivers are shit on Linux".
"That's so cool that you bought an Nvidia card! Welcome to the Linux gaming elite. Those idiots who use Windows are practically asking for headaches, Linux is so easy"
"Ok rerun all of those commands again. Did it work? Yes? Hells yeah bro. Now that we finally got steam installed, let's get the drivers installed".
"Yeah those games don't work in Linux"
"Have you tried running it with wine?"

I'll just stick with windows and use good practices to secure my machine.
 
AltTabbins said:
"Have you tried running it with wine?"
"Didn't work? Oh it's super easy, just run this (insert small novel here) in terminal!"
"Oh I know what that error is, you are just missing repositoties, run (insert medium novel here) and you are good to go".
"Still not working? You are running Debian right? Oh, Ubuntu? Uninstall it and install Arch"
"Did you redo the steps I mentioned before and it's still not working? What gpu do you have? Shit, you should have said you have an AMD card, that changes everything. Go buy an Nvidia card, AMD drivers are shit on Linux".
"That's so cool that you bought an Nvidia card! Welcome to the Linux gaming elite. Those idiots who use Windows are practically asking for headaches, Linux is so easy"
"Ok rerun all of those commands again. Did it work? Yes? Hells yeah bro. Now that we finally got steam installed, let's get the drivers installed".
"Yeah those games don't work in Linux"
"Have you tried running it with wine?"

I'll just stick with windows and use good practices to secure my machine.
Click to expand...

Haha, this gave me a genuine chuckle.
 
AltTabbins said:
"Have you tried running it with wine?"
"Didn't work? Oh it's super easy, just run this (insert small novel here) in terminal!"
"Oh I know what that error is, you are just missing repositoties, run (insert medium novel here) and you are good to go".
"Still not working? You are running Debian right? Oh, Ubuntu? Uninstall it and install Arch"
"Did you redo the steps I mentioned before and it's still not working? What gpu do you have? Shit, you should have said you have an AMD card, that changes everything. Go buy an Nvidia card, AMD drivers are shit on Linux".
"That's so cool that you bought an Nvidia card! Welcome to the Linux gaming elite. Those idiots who use Windows are practically asking for headaches, Linux is so easy"
"Ok rerun all of those commands again. Did it work? Yes? Hells yeah bro. Now that we finally got steam installed, let's get the drivers installed".
"Yeah those games don't work in Linux"
"Have you tried running it with wine?"

I'll just stick with windows and use good practices to secure my machine.
Click to expand...

Filthy casual :ROFLMAO: How dare you tailor your computer use to what is easiest and most well known to you. Learn the master OS or apply for welfare.
 
I use both. Don't really see what all the fuss is about actually. They both have a little arrow floating around on the screen that let me click shit that opens. They both have little HELP menus that I can read. They both play movies and music. They both burn disks. They both have a notepad and a clock.

Just give me a login and I am good to go.
 
Darakian said:
Is ubuntu not there?
Click to expand...

Once a year pretty much I try to get into Linux. Usually the most current/stable Cinnamon build. The basic setup, updates, etc. are ez pz. Then in order to run any programs I use regularly on my machine outside of web browsing, office, and Google docs I get lost. I attempted to set up a couple various gaming and voice servers and it was hopeless. I jut can't get the hang of using terminal. I'll keep trying, it would be nice to be able to use well, but
 
AltTabbins said:
"Have you tried running it with wine?"
"Didn't work? Oh it's super easy, just run this (insert small novel here) in terminal!"
"Oh I know what that error is, you are just missing repositoties, run (insert medium novel here) and you are good to go".
"Still not working? You are running Debian right? Oh, Ubuntu? Uninstall it and install Arch"
"Did you redo the steps I mentioned before and it's still not working? What gpu do you have? Shit, you should have said you have an AMD card, that changes everything. Go buy an Nvidia card, AMD drivers are shit on Linux".
"That's so cool that you bought an Nvidia card! Welcome to the Linux gaming elite. Those idiots who use Windows are practically asking for headaches, Linux is so easy"
"Ok rerun all of those commands again. Did it work? Yes? Hells yeah bro. Now that we finally got steam installed, let's get the drivers installed".
"Yeah those games don't work in Linux"
"Have you tried running it with wine?"

I'll just stick with windows and use good practices to secure my machine.
Click to expand...

I admit I had a chuckle at this, but c'mon, you are exaggerating more than just a little.

Personally, I don't run Wine as I find I can do everything natively under Linux. Secondly, the differences between distro's get's blown way out of proportion by Windows users - Think Windows with winblinds, yeah it looked different, but under all the flash it was still the same thing. Thirdly, I've got/experienced plenty of software that ran fine under XP and even Windows 7 that refuses to run under Windows 10 - One of those packages is a popular accounting package of all things, the free upgrade to Windows 10 had many business owners bleeding, the issues still aren't fully resolved.

Steam installation is as easy as it is under Windows as it's a .deb installer package. Many cross platform software applications use .deb installers these days, see how simple software is to install below:



Nvidia drivers are stupidly easy to install using the Ubuntu Nvidia driver PPA.

AMD drivers are improving, but for a flawless gaming experience Nvidia is still the way to go. Intel iGPU's work great under Linux.

Lately the only time I've used the terminal is to install software using apt, a stupidly simple process involving cut and paste - I use powershell in Windows also.
 
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AltTabbins said:
"Have you tried running it with wine?"
"Didn't work? Oh it's super easy, just run this (insert small novel here) in terminal!"
"Oh I know what that error is, you are just missing repositoties, run (insert medium novel here) and you are good to go".
"Still not working? You are running Debian right? Oh, Ubuntu? Uninstall it and install Arch"
"Did you redo the steps I mentioned before and it's still not working? What gpu do you have? Shit, you should have said you have an AMD card, that changes everything. Go buy an Nvidia card, AMD drivers are shit on Linux".
"That's so cool that you bought an Nvidia card! Welcome to the Linux gaming elite. Those idiots who use Windows are practically asking for headaches, Linux is so easy"
"Ok rerun all of those commands again. Did it work? Yes? Hells yeah bro. Now that we finally got steam installed, let's get the drivers installed".
"Yeah those games don't work in Linux"
"Have you tried running it with wine?"

I'll just stick with windows and use good practices to secure my machine.
Click to expand...

LOL! That is the way I like to begin a day, with a good out loud laugh. :) :D Thanks.
 
Having to type anything in like commands has always kept me away. I mean who wants to use dos in 2016, I didn't even want to in 1998.

Also not sure how hard installing/uninstalling drivers or programs are now it was a pain before. Android is based on Linux right? I enjoy Android except only be able to use like one app at a time.

If I never had to type a command in for anything I'd switch to Mint. I liked playing around in there.

Oh and the like multi versions of the os like KDE gnome ect it be nice if there was better descriptions of differences cause the interface on all of them I'd fairly similar when looking at screenshots of the desktop.
 
HeavensCloud said:
Once a year pretty much I try to get into Linux. Usually the most current/stable Cinnamon build. The basic setup, updates, etc. are ez pz. Then in order to run any programs I use regularly on my machine outside of web browsing, office, and Google docs I get lost. I attempted to set up a couple various gaming and voice servers and it was hopeless. I jut can't get the hang of using terminal. I'll keep trying, it would be nice to be able to use well, but
Click to expand...
The terminal takes a bit to get used to. It's a different mode of thinking from the usual windows thing. It's worth it though when you get it :)
I was more curious about if a new user can "just work" on ubuntu. I keep reading that you don't need the terminal on ubuntu, but
a) I don't use ubuntu so I can't verify
and b) I've been using linux for years and want a terminal
So, I'm curious what the outside perspective is. Thanks.
 
Darakian said:
The terminal takes a bit to get used to. It's a different mode of thinking from the usual windows thing. It's worth it though when you get it :)
I was more curious about if a new user can "just work" on ubuntu. I keep reading that you don't need the terminal on ubuntu, but
a) I don't use ubuntu so I can't verify
and b) I've been using linux for years and want a terminal
So, I'm curious what the outside perspective is. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Like with every flavor of Linux, it depends on what they are trying to do. Most distros have pretty much everything a basic user would need. It's when you start throwing in drivers, custom software, specific needs that you start seeing the terminal more. Personally I think Manjaro is the most feature ready out of the box. Ububtu, Mint, and a few flavors of Ububtu like Kububtu are really solid too.
 
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