What will happen to nvidia?

[ikarinokami]

Hmmm..This and everything below it leads me to conclude that you're not even a fanboy, you're just retarded. Cuda market is still very small, and I don't think for Dell or other major computer sellers cuda matters that much yet.

Nope, for $30 more all you get is a plus sign; 9800gtx+ is barely equall to 4850 in most games, I think there is only two games where it manages to pull ahead. 9800gtx+ is a 55nm shrink ultra clocked version of the 8800gts, its not something insanely ****ing awsome.

256 bit bus seems to work out just fine for 4850. Look around at review sites and [H]

Every market is small when its starts out, whether it was pc, or the internet search engine, woolworth's started with one store, of course the cuda market is small, its not even a market, but potential is massive, hence why both nvidia and intel pouring a lot of resources into it.

512-bit memory bus IS NOT need for desktop graphics cards, but it will be essential for the cuda market. As I said, is shortsighted and narrow to view the GT200 as just a desktop graphics like the the AMD. This Chip is the foundation for its CUDA platform. It's a great start.

Oem buys parts based on price, power consumption, supply, the 4850 is in no way superior to the 9800gtx+ as an oem part and as for consumers it and the 4850 are close enough, that i would bet, most people which ever they can find cheaper at the particular jucture they decide to buy.

Third Nvidia can get by on much smaller margins on the 9800gtx+ than AMD can because, amd is sort of in a hell hole right now, they took on alot of debt to buy ATI, they have been selling thier desktop cpus at very tight margins to keep market share. The change in thier stragegy is a reflection of that, and in my opinion are in a very vunerable posistion right, if nvidia just decides to undercut them with the 9800gtx+ with oems and engage in a price war, it would be great for the consumer, but would be near delibating on AMD considering its level of debt.

 

[POPEGOLD]

Third Nvidia can get by on much smaller margins on the 9800gtx+ .

you think so ? I don't.... i think AMD can really shake up Nvidia by dropping the 4850 to 169.99. Nvidia would have to give away the 9800gtx+ at that point

 

[ikarinokami]

you think so ? I don't.... i think AMD can really shake up Nvidia by dropping the 4850 to 169.99. Nvidia would have to give away the 9800gtx+ at that point

amm, you realize that amd is hemmoraging money right? that their debt load is massive after borrowing to buy ATI. Nvidia on the other hand has no debt and a nice cash reserve. a price war would deblitate amd, so much so that i am sure they could surivive intact. right now amd needs ati to be profitable, it can't losing money on both cpus and gpus. However an action like that would be unlikely by nivida as it would surely attract the ever present eyes of the EU regulators.

 

[SharpieFiend]

amm, you realize that amd is hemmoraging money right? that their debt load is massive after borrowing to buy ATI. Nvidia on the other hand has no debt and a nice cash reserve. a price war would deblitate amd, so much so that i am sure they could surivive intact. right now amd needs ati to be profitable, it can't losing money on both cpus and gpus. However an action like that would be unlikely by nivida as it would surely attract the ever present eyes of the EU regulators.

The 4850 is $189.99 at my local screwdriver shop, dropping the price another $20 won't cause AMD to go bankrupt. I think we'll see that price point sooner rather than later anyway, as I said in previous posts low price is something AMD can do to keep pressure on nVidia.

You hold too much faith in the regulators. Even if there were a major price war between AMD and nVidia, it's highly unlikely that regulators would get involved. Firstly, nVidia would have to complain about the price war, and they wouldn't want to antagonize AMD like that. They still do depend on AMD for a large part of their business and wouldn't want AMD to stop inviting them to meetings. Secondly, there are no European competitors so the EU would likely be uninterested in two American companies slugging it out. Remember, AMD built a large fab in Germany so they were able to convince the German government to petition the EU on their behalf. In the EU, what Germany wants they tend to get.

 

[ikarinokami]

european regulators love sueing armerican companies, MS,Boeing,Intel, they even block the merger of two wholey owed american companies before. and its not nvidia that would fear or compain about a t price war, it would be AMD. nvidia much like Intel when the athalon was dominant, can easily sustain a price war. Amd however cannot, they do not have the money to sell these parts at loss for market share, when they are probally doing that to some extent in the cpu world, and in light of the fact they borrowed billions to purchase ATI, it simply cannot be a division of the company that operates at a loss.

But like I said nividia is not going to do this, it's not necassary, they have dominant market share and posisition right now, and the 9800+ is good enough to maintain the status qou, which is just where they need to be, in preperation for the fight with the 900lb gorilla.

 

[vengence]

which is just where they need to be, in preperation for the fight with the 900lb gorilla.

As far as I've seen with Intel's "integrated graphics", it may be a 900lb gorilla, but the gorilla has no arms.

 

[POPEGOLD]

Amd however cannot, they do not have the money to sell these parts at loss for market share, when they are probally doing that to some extent in the cpu world, and in light of the fact they borrowed billions to purchase ATI, it simply cannot be a division of the company that operates at a loss.

.

you do realize its alot cheaper to make Ati GPUs and boards right now than NVIDIA....if AMD can price its cards where everyone ifs buying them..Nvidia wont have a chance

volume sales will make up for a 20 buck price cut and then some....

I dont think Nvidia can cut prices right now... Nvidia will probally raise the white flag on this round and focus on getting the 55nm cooler cheaper gt200's out the door

 

[SharpieFiend]

european regulators love sueing armerican companies, MS,Boeing,Intel, they even block the merger of two wholey owed american companies before. and its not nvidia that would fear or compain about a t price war, it would be AMD. nvidia much like Intel when the athalon was dominant, can easily sustain a price war. Amd however cannot, they do not have the money to sell these parts at loss for market share, when they are probally doing that to some extent in the cpu world, and in light of the fact they borrowed billions to purchase ATI, it simply cannot be a division of the company that operates at a loss.

But like I said nividia is not going to do this, it's not necassary, they have dominant market share and posisition right now, and the 9800+ is good enough to maintain the status qou, which is just where they need to be, in preperation for the fight with the 900lb gorilla.

Look at what you said there - all of those American companies have European competitors. ATI and nVidia do not.

Also, you underestimate AMD. Yes, they aren't in the best financial health, but they're hardly dead yet. I think in the time to come we'll see the purchase of ATI as a good decision, PC component manufacturers will have to come up with a whole package instead of bits and pieces.

If Intel wanted to complicate things they would flood the market with cheap X38 chipsets. Anyone that cares enough to choose a quad core CPU will automatically pair it with an X38, which means Crossfire. ATI has very compelling cards right now, so enthusiasts won't mind going with that solution. There are two other things that make ATI compelling - DX 10.1 support and audio over HDMI. Blizzard has given ATI a huge gift with Diablo III, it will be the year's best selling game and it will only run to its full potential on ATI cards. It's likely that the new WoW expansion will also support DX 10.1 and a lot of those gamers will want in on the action. That's going to sell millions of copies as well.

 

[vengence]

you do realize its alot cheaper to make Ati GPUs and boards right now than NVIDIA....if AMD can price its cards where everyone ifs buying them..Nvidia wont have a chance

volume sales will make up for a 20 buck price cut and then some....

I dont think Nvidia can cut prices right now... Nvidia will probally raise the white flag on this round and focus on getting the 55nm cooler cheaper gt200's out the door

Where are you getting information that AMD has better yields/cheaper per chip on it's 4850 than Nvidia's 9800GTX/GTX+

 

[himmy]

Ok, first this is NOT trolling. Just a real question.

With ATI's new 48xx series cards performing so well (including the 4870x2). I would imagine Nvidia's series will be a flop... as in not sell very well.

Will Nvidia lose much money? If so, what will they do to try and compete? It seems Nvidia is on defense now on all fronts (chipsets and gpu's). Will this make them push the partnership with VIA more?

Just wondering what the landscape will look like in a year or so.

Nothing will change, except maybe market share, which could go either way or stay the same.

The real question is what happens to nvidia when CPU/GPU integration from AMD and Intel happens, as there will no longer be a need for discreet graphic cards.

 

[cnick79]

Nothing will change, except maybe market share, which could go either way or stay the same.

Exactly, nothing will change except for market share.

The real question is what happens to nvidia when CPU/GPU integration from AMD and Intel happens, as there will no longer be a need for discreet graphic cards.

Intel buying NVIDIA would be my prediction.

 

[unleashed]

Intel buying NVIDIA would be my prediction.

If Intel would want (need) to buy nVidia they would have done that by now.

 

[vict0r]

Nvidia will blame piracy for poor card sales.

LOL !!!

 

[vengence]

The real question is what happens to nvidia when CPU/GPU integration from AMD and Intel happens, as there will no longer be a need for discreet graphic cards.

Honestly, I just don't see this happening. Not for anything that will be able to play "the latest games". How do you plan to disapate the heat? Even a mid range graphics card is putting out 150 Watts. A high end GPU puts out 250+. Couple that with the CPU drawing 100, or 150 if it's OCed your talking a 400Watt package. And lets face it, wattage has been going up in recent years, not going down.

 

[SharpieFiend]

Honestly, I just don't see this happening. Not for anything that will be able to play "the latest games". How do you plan to disapate the heat? Even a mid range graphics card is putting out 150 Watts. A high end GPU puts out 250+. Couple that with the CPU drawing 100, or 150 if it's OCed your talking a 400Watt package. And lets face it, wattage has been going up in recent years, not going down.

I agree - I don't see this being any better then the regular integrated graphics. However, that's fine for most users (especially corporate users). There still is going to be a market for mid/high-end cards, but it's the low end where the majority of the money is made - it's all about volume.

I also think when the CPU/GPU are combined it will be on the 32nm process, so that's going to affect the heat as well.

 

[vengence]

I agree - I don't see this being any better then the regular integrated graphics. However, that's fine for most users (especially corporate users). There still is going to be a market for mid/high-end cards, but it's the low end where the majority of the money is made - it's all about volume.

I also think when the CPU/GPU are combined it will be on the 32nm process, so that's going to affect the heat as well.

A 32nm process would help, but still. Despite all the die shrinks, wattages are going up from card to card. GTX 280 > 8800 GTX on power draw. Now, thats not to say it isn't getting more efficent. 1 Watt of power is getting you more calculations for sure.

 

[SharpieFiend]

A 32nm process would help, but still. Despite all the die shrinks, wattages are going up from card to card. GTX 280 > 8800 GTX on power draw. Now, thats not to say it isn't getting more efficent. 1 Watt of power is getting you more calculations for sure.

Yeah, but as we've agreed you're not going to play Crysis at max settings on something like this. It'll be fine for anything not related to hardcore gaming.

I'm interested in seeing Larabee - it seems like Intel is going to do finesse vs raw power. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their labs...

 

[Mega666]

Yeah, but as we've agreed you're not going to play Crysis at max settings on something like this. It'll be fine for anything not related to hardcore gaming.

I'm interested in seeing Larabee - it seems like Intel is going to do finesse vs raw power. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in their labs...

Intel's dream of replacing rasterization with ray tracing is obsurd. A most likely outcome is a combination of both. Larabee is still a pipe dream until someone sees some silicon. It's years off at best.

 

[FrgMstr]

Intel's dream of replacing rasterization with ray tracing is obsurd. A most likely outcome is a combination of both. Larabee is still a pipe dream until someone sees some silicon. It's years off at best.

I do not think that is Intel's goal and they have expressed as much.

In the future, ray tracing may compete with today's traditional raster-based graphics used in games running on Nvidia and AMD-ATI graphics processors. Intel claims ray tracing runs better on general-purpose processors, such as its Core 2 Quad processors, than on traditional graphics processors. Ray tracing may also run on future processors such as Larrabee.

NVIDIA has already expressed the ability of "hybrid" GPUs as well. AMD is saying the same thing internally.

I think what we will see from Intel is a push towards a true graphics ecosystem that divides rasterization and ray tracking workloads where they are handled best, be that CPU, GPU, or both.