What to look forward to later this year (Yes, LED!)

Like anything...you get what you pay for. I think a lot of these CRT fanb0iz are basing their opinions/comparisons off of el cheapo Walmart LCDs ;)

Just a thought, but I would think true videophiles would prefer:

-Perfect digital images (via DVI-D or HDMI). No digital to analog conversions causing loss of quality.

-Perfect 1:1 pixel for pixel images. Ability to watch a 1920x1080 source image on a 1920x1080 native panel (or 1920x1200 with slight black bars on top/bottom).

-Native progressive scan.

-Perfect geometry. No crappy curves/weirdness from guns shooting and image on to the screen (ie CRT guns).

-Perfect Aspect Ratio. Yes, the actual panel viewing area is the same aspect ratio as the native resolution!

-Flat non glare finish. No more glossy glare from glass CRT tubes!

Shall I go on?

I'm sorry, but with LED backlighting coming and the possibility of the first ever HDR displays...I cannot see a reason to stay with CRT.
 
mike_j_johnson said:
Like anything...you get what you pay for. I think a lot of these CRT fanb0iz are basing their opinions/comparisons off of el cheapo Walmart LCDs ;)
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Funny I get the idea LCD fans are comparing to some seriously messed up CRT's. Because both the 21" trinitrons that I uses have essentially excellent geometry and perfect focus. Along with no screendoor effect, perfect blacks, perfect response times with no motion smears, input lags or ghosting. Perfect viewing angles (which are insanely bad on every VA/TN LCD I have seen), perfect resolution scaling.

LED's are going to fix any of that anytime soon. Just a different light source after all. So I can see a few reasons to still stick with CRT.

I realize the Dell 2405 has more than it's share of problem and I am keeping my eye out for an affordable 1600x1200 IPS based screen to give LCD one last shot. Anyone know what kind of screen is currently in the dell 2007FP? Note I was burned twice as I tried the 2007FP as well, but it had banding/text blur and it was a PVA screen when I was expecting a S-IPS screen.
 
Snowdog pick up the NEC 2070NX, you will not be sorry. This uses an S-IPS panel and runs at 1600x1200. I work on two of these monitors all day long and its great.
 
Snowdog said:
How much is that is image quality related? Yup CRTs are bigger and consumer more power. As far as heat they make more (because they consume more power) but it comes out the back. The screen remains cool. The 2405 screen actually radiated heat out the front.

I can't believe someone is seriously complaining about the two trinitron lines when praising LCD. My 2405 had 1200 lines that were more visible than the Trinitron lines. Ever hear of Screen Door Effect?

I don't know how you set up your screen and what could be wrong with a diamondtron. I have 21" Sony based Trinitrons at home and at work, straight lines do not bend. The screen is 4:3 and I run at 1600x1200 so squares are square. Geometry issues like flicker issues are overrated red herring if you have a decent screen and set it up properly.

Brightness?? CRT is plenty bright. 2405 was too bright. Even turned down to zero. Also LCD look like Butt when you turn them down. CRT adjust gracefully. I also use my screen to watch movies/TV in the dark. Where it still delivers deep blacks and not the washout grey of LCD.

There is a reason why hardcore videophiles are still searching for something to replace the quality of CRT, it has the best overall image quality bar none. But it is big and heavy.

For me image quality matters much more than size/weight. I don't move my screen enough for that to matter.

I wanted to like LCD. Splurged for the 24" Dell. But in the end it was such a dissapointment that I wish they still made Trinitrons so I wouldn't feel the need to get a backup.
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I'm sorry you had the screen door effect, and yes, I have heard of it. I do not notice such an effect. I don't believe I'm alone on this. However, we KNOW every Trinitron screen has those two little lines running across it.

A CRT tube by its very nature has imperfect geometry. The screen you are looking at is not flat. It is close to flat, but not flat. Go ahead, go to paint, make a line, and move that window to the side of the monitor to see how that line will shift or curve as you get close to the edge. It is imperfect, and has been with every CRT that I have ever seen. Sorry, but it is.

I didn't mention flicker issues because I never had them. I never ran my monitor at 60Hz, although it appeared sharper at that refresh rate. I do know how to properly configure a monitor, thanks.

I like the brightness, thank you very much. I did turn the brightness up on my Diamondtron but it washed out all the colors. Do LCDs have deep blacks like CRTs? No, I never claimed they did. I simply pointed out a few areas were LCDs do perform better than CRTs and you freaked like I just personally insulted you. You are not your monitor.

I also don't have any problems with heat radiating out the front of my LCD. I'm using an LCD now and can't feel the heat. You sure you didn't just embelish a little here?
 
Snowdog said:
For me image quality matters much more than size/weight. I don't move my screen enough for that to matter.

I wanted to like LCD. Splurged for the 24" Dell. But in the end it was such a dissapointment that I wish they still made Trinitrons so I wouldn't feel the need to get a backup.
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Did you considered the NEC 20WGX2 ? :)
 
BigDH01 said:
I'm sorry you had the screen door effect, and yes, I have heard of it. I do not notice such an effect. I don't believe I'm alone on this. However, we KNOW every Trinitron screen has those two little lines running across it.

A CRT tube by its very nature has imperfect geometry. The screen you are looking at is not flat. It is close to flat, but not flat. Go ahead, go to paint, make a line, and move that window to the side of the monitor to see how that line will shift or curve as you get close to the edge. It is imperfect, and has been with every CRT that I have ever seen. Sorry, but it is.

I like the brightness, thank you very much. I did turn the brightness up on my Diamondtron but it washed out all the colors. Do LCDs have deep blacks like CRTs? No, I never claimed they did. I simply pointed out a few areas were LCDs do perform better than CRTs and you freaked like I just personally insulted you. You are not your monitor.

I also don't have any problems with heat radiating out the front of my LCD. I'm using an LCD now and can't feel the heat. You sure you didn't just embelish a little here?
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No insult to me. But I get annoyed at the bandwagon of, you have to be an idiot luddite to still use CRT. There are many areas that CRTs are still quite superior. I may have been a bit snappy but yours was about the 5th reply after I agreed the original guy who was buying a CRT. Some of the things really don't make sense like saying Squares aren't Square on CRT. They are on my monitor. Post one and I will measure it with a ruler and take a picture if you don't believe me. There may be smaller geometric imperfections but they don't make squares into rectangles.

Actually every LCD has SDE. It is the nature of the beast. Smaller pitch makes it harder to see though. Which monitor do you have? Because on the 2405 SDE was more noticable than that two lines across the screen. I know the two wires on the trinitrons annoy some people, but I figured anyone actually annoyed by the wires like you claim to be, would see and be even more annoyed by SDE.

You like brightness, I don't, that is a point of preference. I like to use mine in a dimly lit room, so CRT is plenty bright, LCD is overbright. I remember when I had my 2405, people were suggesting using much brighter lights in my room. Kind of defeats the power saved IMO.

I am not embelishing about heat. I noticed very early after getting my 2405 and found it kind of strange, but then I saw other people talking about it, so I figured it was normal. It is not something that bothers me, but if you are bothered by the heat a CRT produces out the back, then the heat coming out the front of an LCD would probably be an issue.
Here is a thread on it:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1049284&highlight=heat+2405
 
Snowdog said:
Because both the 21" trinitrons that I uses have essentially...Perfect viewing angles (which are insanely bad on every VA/TN LCD I have seen)...
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I'm sitting behind a 19 inch TN Film panel right now and I have no such problems with viewing angles. I can sit to either side of this screen as far over as humanly possible and the screen doesn’t get those weird warped colors you see on cheap LCD's.

Samsung doesn’t lie about viewing angles (this one is listed as “170+ degrees”) :D
 
Does anyone have any ideas if NEC or or of the other LCD manufacturers plan to release 10 bit panels instead of the 8 bit products currently in use?
 
interpolator said:
Does anyone have any ideas if NEC or or of the other LCD manufacturers plan to release 10 bit panels instead of the 8 bit products currently in use?
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NEC uses 12 bit panels in its 90 series products.
1990SXi
1990SXp
2090UXi
2190UXi
2190UXp

10 bit panels were used in the 80 series monitors.
 
For a gamer, I would definately say that a CRT has significant advantages over LCD. Refresh rates higher than 60Hz and deep blacks are IMO, very very beneficial to gaming. I would say these two advantages outweigh the magority of advantages that LCD's have.

I think its pretty hard to argue that an LCD is superior for gaming, or that a CRT is superior for windows use.
 
PKFGimpy said:
For a gamer, I would definately say that a CRT has significant advantages over LCD. Refresh rates higher than 60Hz and deep blacks are IMO, very very beneficial to gaming. I would say these two advantages outweigh the magority of advantages that LCD's have.

I think its pretty hard to argue that an LCD is superior for gaming, or that a CRT is superior for windows use.
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This is true but its getting harder and harder to find decent CRT's now that trinitrons are no longer produced. This is one of the main reasons i am now on LCD, my old quality trinitron died so i bought a late model p95f+ that was not up to older trinitron quality, this forced me to move on to a vp191b which i actually like very much.
 
Another benefit of LED backlighting is smaller form factor and reduced power consumption, something that leads me to belive we'll see these becoming popular in the laptop market first. Currently there is one model of the X-series thinkpad that has a UL LED backlight with more to come when demand dies down in japan. It's slightly thinner, much brighter, and improves battery life.
 
I dont know anything about the laptop you are referring too but LED's use about twice as much energer as typical CCFL's which is why they produce so much heat.
 
PKFGimpy said:
For a gamer, I would definately say that a CRT has significant advantages over LCD. Refresh rates higher than 60Hz and deep blacks are IMO, very very beneficial to gaming. I would say these two advantages outweigh the magority of advantages that LCD's have.

I think its pretty hard to argue that an LCD is superior for gaming, or that a CRT is superior for windows use.
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:cool:

Good quick simplification.

I'm a CRT man myself for PC use. Don't get me wrong - I have an 800x600 DLP projector at 100" for movies and console games - perfect geometry is nice. But it sure struggles on very dark scenes. And that's at 2000:1 contrast ratio. LCDs struggle even harder.

LCDs: good for lots of text viewing, windows, etc.
CRTs: not quite as good for Windows use, but way better for movies, games, or anything else that requires a high amount of black level detail or color accuracy.

I'm eager to see some of these LED-lit displays already. I'd like to see better contrast from both LCD and DLP.
 
To each his (or her) own. I would kick, scream and throw fits if someone told me that I would have to give up my LCD and go back to CRT. I don't miss the 19" monster tube at all.
 
They both have obvious tradeoffs, which I am unwilling to live with - so like several other people on other parts of this forum, I use both.. what some nicknamed "the best of both worlds".

Elvn's screens on "show your lcd setups" thread

There is no way I would give up the sony FW900 24" widescreen CRT for any single LCD monitor currently, and likewise I would not give up the quality Viewsonic vx2025wm widescreen LCD I use for crisp text and program interface use for a crt alone either.

This setup should serve me for perhaps several years until LCD, LED, (SED?) or other tech progresses enough and that tech becomes available at a price point which I find reasonable.
 
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