What Tim Cook Will Say To Congress On Taxes

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Apple posted a sixteen page document (scroll down to "additional information") outlining the company's tax plan that it will present to congress tomorrow. Among other things, Apple plans to inform congress of the extraordinary amount of money it pays every year in taxes:

Apple is likely the largest corporate income tax payer in the US, having paid nearly $6 billion in taxes to the US Treasury in FY2012. These payments account for $1 in every $40 in corporate income tax the US Treasury collected last year. The Company’s FY2012 total US federal cash effective tax rate was approximately 30.5%.1 The Company expects to pay over $7 billion in taxes to the US Treasury in its current fiscal year. In accordance with US law, Apple pays US corporate income taxes on the profits earned from its sales in the US and on the investment income of its Controlled Foreign Corporations (“CFCs”), including the investment earnings of its Irish subsidiary, Apple Operations International (“AOI”).
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Doesn't he under stand that's not enough?

They have nobody to blame but themselves for supporting these high tax Democrats.
 
now imagine what AT&T, Verizon and BP SHOULD be paying....
 
nutzo said:
Doesn't he under stand that's not enough?

They have nobody to blame but themselves for supporting these high tax Democrats.
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You apparently missed Apples strategy to not pay any actual taxes this year


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/05/01/apple-taxes-debt-deal_n_3195224.html

Tax evasion is as American as Apple pie.
 
Maybe they should read the parable of the rich man and the poor woman in the Bible (LMFAO if they did). It was Jesus asking about who gave more - the rich man who gave a large sum or the poor woman who gave her last penny? Apple makes tons has has a lot left over. Most of don't make that. But we get taxed twice - once on the income we earn and then we get taxed again when we spend it (sales or use tax). So I ask who is paying more - Apple or us?
 
i remember a year or two back there was that story about how GE payed no taxes and made a few billion
 
Steve said:
Apple posted a sixteen page document (scroll down to "additional information") outlining the company's tax plan that it will present to congress tomorrow. Among other things, Apple plans to inform congress of the extraordinary amount of money it pays every year in taxes:
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So Tim says he's paying plenty, because he payed.... 2.5% of Corporate Income in taxes?

I wish I was in the 2.5% tax bracket......
 
I am for an equal tax across the board. Say 10%. So no matter what you make, you pay 10% to taxes. To me, that seems fair. As far as loopholes, close them. Everyone pays 10% PERIOD. No deductions, not breaks, 10%.

On a side note, there have been articles in newspapers around here Central Florida) that indicate Disney does some form of scheme to get breaks on taxes and pays almost no taxes each year. It involves selling their tickets to their own subsidiaries for a loss, then those companies sell them for profit. Not sure all the little details, but when a theme park as big as Disney isn't paying the same percentage of taxes I am, well I have a problem with that.
 
ReconSniper said:
I am for an equal tax across the board. Say 10%. So no matter what you make, you pay 10% to taxes. To me, that seems fair. As far as loopholes, close them. Everyone pays 10% PERIOD. No deductions, not breaks, 10%.

On a side note, there have been articles in newspapers around here Central Florida) that indicate Disney does some form of scheme to get breaks on taxes and pays almost no taxes each year. It involves selling their tickets to their own subsidiaries for a loss, then those companies sell them for profit. Not sure all the little details, but when a theme park as big as Disney isn't paying the same percentage of taxes I am, well I have a problem with that.
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Pretty positive 10% is far too low of a equal tax rate. Id assume its more around 15% to match current revenue.
And im assuming you tax capital gains and all too.
 
See that number "1" after the "30.5%" in the quoted material? That's a footnote. Here's what the footnote says:

This calculation is a reflection of federal taxes Apple paid against US pretax earnings, not a calculation of Apple’s final tax liability for FY2012.​

Why is that important? Because the "30.5%" is utter bullshit. The company actually paid 13.8% on its net profits, when you do the calculation of Apple's final tax liability.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/11/01/so-how-much-tax-did-apple-pay/

Let's remember, too, that the U.S. corporate tax rate is 35%. Even if their boast about how much taxes they paid were in any way close to the truth, it would have been less than what they should have been paying.
 
flat tax would be great, get rid of loopholes. and politicians need to stop saying they will do this (the loopholes at least) and just do it.
 
ReconSniper said:
I am for an equal tax across the board. Say 10%. So no matter what you make, you pay 10% to taxes. To me, that seems fair. As far as loopholes, close them. Everyone pays 10% PERIOD. No deductions, not breaks, 10%.

On a side note, there have been articles in newspapers around here Central Florida) that indicate Disney does some form of scheme to get breaks on taxes and pays almost no taxes each year. It involves selling their tickets to their own subsidiaries for a loss, then those companies sell them for profit. Not sure all the little details, but when a theme park as big as Disney isn't paying the same percentage of taxes I am, well I have a problem with that.
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That's the way I see it. I'd would be willing to allow for a progressive tax structure only if those who pay no federal income taxes have forgo right to vote in national elections.
 
stevejg61 said:
But we get taxed twice - once on the income we earn and then we get taxed again when we spend it (sales or use tax). So I ask who is paying more - Apple or us?
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Off-topic: Have you filed a tax return before? This exact reason is why you can deduct your state income tax (or alternatively your state sales taxes--whichever amounts to more) on your federal tax return; so you don't get taxed twice...
 
This is extremely amusing considering where Tim Cook comes from , this kind of taxation is considered "the norm" but in the US its "being robbed".

Have fun Tim. We can't even get Congress to listen to the general public , how do you think you'll fair you fuck wit?
 
RGMBill said:
So Tim says he's paying plenty, because he payed.... 2.5% of Corporate Income in taxes?

I wish I was in the 2.5% tax bracket......
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No, Apple is saying they paid all the taxes they are supposed to pay for operations in the US according to US tax code. If the corporate tax rate were not so high, Apple would have needed to create foreign businesses because plain and simple, the money they make over here is taxed to hell. Much higher than a 2.5% tax rate.

As for your 2.5% tax bracket, you are blowing it a little out of proportion. Or, do you honestly believe that all profit made in companies not based in the US pay US taxes?

You can't simply count all of Apple's profits as US income to base your 2.5% number on, because that is not the case.
 
Godmachine said:
This is extremely amusing considering where Tim Cook comes from , this kind of taxation is considered "the norm" but in the US its "being robbed".

Have fun Tim. We can't even get Congress to listen to the general public , how do you think you'll fair you fuck wit?
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easy, congress listens to money. If you can table talk the right way with the right wink then Cook can trust that congress will work out a deal and congress can trust that Cook will be helpful when re-election comes around.
 
Net Prowler said:
flat tax would be great, get rid of loopholes. and politicians need to stop saying they will do this (the loopholes at least) and just do it.
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Even if some utopic system was developed, do you honestly think it would change Apple's foreign businesses so they would have to pay US taxes?

Come one you people, companies are created overseas so they do not get ripped off by the US government. That completely responsive to the high corporate tax rates in the US. In fact, the US corporate tax rate sways between number 1 and number 2 highest tax rate of any other country, and by a large margin at that.

The plain truth is the US government is taxing companies out of the US. That is what you need to understand. That is what drives outsourcing. That is why there are 25 million US citizens employed right now than there was in 2009 (yet the US population increased).

That is why you know someone who was displaced in their jobs.
 
Correction: Should read "That is why there are 25 million LESS American citizens employed right now than there was in 2009 (yet the US population increased).
 
Flat tax has been shown to not be a good tax system. It doesn't factor in the price of goods and services. People who are poor could ill afford to pay even 10% of their income, when they are barely even making ends meet.
 
BBA said:
Even if some utopic system was developed, do you honestly think it would change Apple's foreign businesses so they would have to pay US taxes?

Come one you people, companies are created overseas so they do not get ripped off by the US government. That completely responsive to the high corporate tax rates in the US. In fact, the US corporate tax rate sways between number 1 and number 2 highest tax rate of any other country, and by a large margin at that.

The plain truth is the US government is taxing companies out of the US. That is what you need to understand. That is what drives outsourcing. That is why there are 25 million US citizens employed right now than there was in 2009 (yet the US population increased).

That is why you know someone who was displaced in their jobs.
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So GE paying zero taxes last year is perfectly acceptable to you? : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/general-electric-taxes_n_2852094.html

I'm sorry but the REAL truth is greedy corporations want a free ride through the system of the US and the amount of loopholes that are exercised by them each and every year shows how incredibly broken the Tax code is.

Corporations have out sourced because they can exploit cheap labor across the planet in countries that give an even less shit about its citizens than the US does.

Why should the middle class citizen in the US pay more taxes than the largest corporation in the world? How does that , in any sense , seem "reasonable"?

Corporations are seeing growth and record profits hand over fist but they shouldn't to pay as much into the country that brings them that prosperity?

That's just lunacy.
 
Godmachine said:
Why should the middle class citizen in the US pay more taxes than the largest corporation in the world? How does that , in any sense , seem "reasonable"?
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You should realize that corporations don't pay taxes, thier customers pay the taxes through higher prices.

If the US where to get rid of all these tax breaks, and Apple had to pay the 35% rate on all income, they'd just raise prices even higher to make up the difference.

The problem is that the government just spends too much, and has to collect too much to pay for it.
 
BBA said:
Even if some utopic system was developed, do you honestly think it would change Apple's foreign businesses so they would have to pay US taxes?

Come one you people, companies are created overseas so they do not get ripped off by the US government. That completely responsive to the high corporate tax rates in the US. In fact, the US corporate tax rate sways between number 1 and number 2 highest tax rate of any other country, and by a large margin at that.

The plain truth is the US government is taxing companies out of the US. That is what you need to understand. That is what drives outsourcing. That is why there are 25 million US citizens employed right now than there was in 2009 (yet the US population increased).

That is why you know someone who was displaced in their jobs.
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I think it has more to do with greed. If they can get a cheaper tax rate they'll funnel the money here, but keep the outsourcing because it's $$$ to shareholders and big bonuses for them.
 
Godmachine said:
This is extremely amusing considering where Tim Cook comes from , this kind of taxation is considered "the norm" but in the US its "being robbed".

Have fun Tim. We can't even get Congress to listen to the general public , how do you think you'll fair you fuck wit?
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Tim is still >> smarter than you.
 
Spidey329 said:
I think it has more to do with greed. If they can get a cheaper tax rate they'll funnel the money here, but keep the outsourcing because it's $$$ to shareholders and big bonuses for them.
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You think they should produce and sale every product they make from US factories and stores? Then pay export/import tariffs, etc...

I do not like Apple on bit but, the real problem is government greed. Since corporations are considered 'people' now, it is kind of like saying that because you live in the US yet your brother lives in Ireland, you need to pay taxes on the money he makes overseas.
 
Lets be honest almost no one wants to pay taxes. Those who are arguing that corporations dont pay enough are just mad that they cant utilize the same loop holes and tax structures that the rich can so they can pay little to no taxes. I can bet on it that you would do exactly as the rich were if you could. I sure as hell dont want to pay the absurdly high taxes and if given the chance I would definitely try to reduce my tax liability. You can only blame congress for the loop holes that allow this. I dont blame any corporation for taking full advantage of tax structures and loop holes to minimize if not completely reduce the taxes they have to pay.
 
*sigh* more tax talk...

Alright, a "flat tax" should not even be in this conversation. Corporate taxes vary so differently from personal income taxes that it's not funny. Assuming Tim Cook's number of 30.5% is true, that's only on the net profit of the company not the total amount of money it took in, corporations get to enjoy this perk of PROFIT vs. REVENUE. Corporations can make billions of dollars, but then reinvest all of that money and now the net profit is zilch... or better yet reinvest more than they made, call it a loss (no income tax) then apply that loss against next years taxes. (granted this is an extremely simplified version)

Could you imagine that with people? We get our paycheck, tax free, we get to buy food, pay rent, pay bills, buy entertainment, do upgrades on our property (From houses to cars to computers) then at the end of the year however much money we put in a savings account, there's our profit! Now tax me on that.

Flat tax + corporate taxes shouldn't be in the same discussion.
 
Spidey329 said:
I think it has more to do with greed. If they can get a cheaper tax rate they'll funnel the money here, but keep the outsourcing because it's $$$ to shareholders and big bonuses for them.
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Its the environment here vs. there. Their foreign competitors aren't taxed when it comes to their exports in many cases. Those government exempt or refund tax costs associated with exports.

And yes, those foreign companies enjoy cheap labor. So companies here can either outsource or go out of business in competition with those entirely foreign companies.

But I get the impression that doesn't interest some here. They aren't motivated by what is best for jobs and the country, but more on spite and envy.
 
If I were Tim Cook, this is what I would say, "These are the tax laws on the books. We are simply following the law. You call them loopholes, we don't. Unless you are going to audit our books, and since no one has been indicted in their preparation or in their authentication, then we have broken zero tax laws. Have a nice day." I'd get up and walk out.
 
sfsuphysics said:
*sigh* more tax talk...

Alright, a "flat tax" should not even be in this conversation. Corporate taxes vary so differently from personal income taxes that it's not funny. Assuming Tim Cook's number of 30.5% is true, that's only on the net profit of the company not the total amount of money it took in, corporations get to enjoy this perk of PROFIT vs. REVENUE. Corporations can make billions of dollars, but then reinvest all of that money and now the net profit is zilch... or better yet reinvest more than they made, call it a loss (no income tax) then apply that loss against next years taxes. (granted this is an extremely simplified version)

Could you imagine that with people? We get our paycheck, tax free, we get to buy food, pay rent, pay bills, buy entertainment, do upgrades on our property (From houses to cars to computers) then at the end of the year however much money we put in a savings account, there's our profit! Now tax me on that.

Flat tax + corporate taxes shouldn't be in the same discussion.
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Actually they should be discussed together. There should be a personal income flat tax and a flat corporate tax. America should be a tax haven, not a tax hell.
 
Methadras said:
Actually they should be discussed together. There should be a personal income flat tax and a flat corporate tax. America should be a tax haven, not a tax hell.
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I do agree with you on that.
 
If our ultimate goal is to create jobs then the government should exempt any corporation from taxes that employs a certain percentage of their workers in the USA and meets certain wage thresholds so that their workers will be taxed ... the workers don't create jobs, the corporations do ... I know it is controversial but we should tax the worker and not the employer (that is good capitalism and that will create jobs) ;)
 
Cali3350 said:
Pretty positive 10% is far too low of a equal tax rate. Id assume its more around 15% to match current revenue.
And im assuming you tax capital gains and all too.
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A flat individual income tax of 20% is what would be needed to match current federal revenue. (28% if we actually wanted to balance the budget.)
 
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