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What Plasma

C

cerbul

Limp Gawd
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
242
Hi there,
I am in the situation that my current TV is dying on me, yet I wanted to upgrade anyway to something better.
First of all I want to say that I am in the group of people that hate marketing gimiks, and I will state a few things that I don't like at all. I don't like how a non IPS monitor looks washed out and low contrast, I don't like motion blur at all, I don't like the entire backlight technology. The only exception would be an IPS TV that is working at 120 hz with interpolation disabled. However, since there is no such thing as totally real 120 hz input and 120 hz real output (or is there?) I decided to go with plasma.

Now the thing is, I am using the TV in bedroom, as I always watch some discovery or some movie when I go to sleep.(nvm about if is a good idea or not to have a TV in bedroom, however, for now I need a TV). I tried to find a plasma around 32 inch, however there is only one plasma around that can do 32 inch, but I don't know if is a good idea since I understood that the LG 32 inch plasma is made in 2007, and the lifetime of the panel only improved with 2008 models. Is it true or not?

If anyone can tell me that the LG 32 inch plasma is comparable in image quality and lifetime with current plasmas, then I solved the problem, though not sure entirely that I won't go with the bigger option.

However, if I don't get to buy a 32 inch plasma, I will be picking a 42/50 inch plasma from Panasonic and use it in the living room instead, leaving the bedroom without a TV(for now). (Notice here that I am willing to sacrifice the bedroom tv for not buying an backlight driven TV).

Now the thing is, my budget is fairly limited, but I will do make the effort and put as much as what is needed to get a proper plasma, as long as it doesn't go over 1100 dolars. I do not need 50 inch plasma, 42 is fine, the only way I am willing to buy 50 is if the quality difference is so huge that is really worth going with a particular model that only comes in 50 inch.
My budget currently is around 800 dolars, and if there aren't major image quality and if the burn in is not smaller, then I really don't want to spend more on it then 800$. Anything over 1100$ lets say, is out of question. Anyway you got the idea, so the algorithm is pretty much "see best plasma that can be bought for 1100 dolars, and downgrade in models while keeping the most important quality characteristics the same".

In other words, I am unable to decide based on characteristics that are stated on the websites that sell those, what plasma should I buy out of the list and what really does matter in this price range. Also wouldn't hurt if anyone could tell me what am I really missing between this price range and a 2k plasma.

So, anyone able to help me?
 
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Should be able to get Panasonic plasma around 50" for less than $800, though glare is an issue to consider with the lower-end models.
 
What solution they have on the higher end models? Anti Reflective or Anti Glare?
Cause if is Antiglare, then I don't want it, I prefer glossy monitors.(though I would probably not be able to accept a tempered glass panel cause that is just too glossy)

What I did learn today, is that I don't really want to buy one with 3D. If there is a TV that doesn't have 3D yet is very good quality, I would probably be better with that.

Also, I found this about how they make build the model names:

VT = Vunderful Telly (top of the Range)
GT - Great Telly (next one down)
ST = Super Telly (Super but not as good as Great)
UT = Underwhelming Telly (Lowest of the range but still 1080p)
XT = Xtra TV (its got a bit extra from standard definition - 768 resolution so lower than the above)

Also, I learned that the first char is "P" for plasmas, and "L" for LED/LCD.
After that is 42,50,55,60 for inches.
After that is the VT/GT/ST/UT/XT for quality. The T can miss if the model doesn't have 3D.
After that are 2 numbers, that state the model version, which seems to be based on production year, 50 for 2012, 60 for 2013(???) , not sure on last one.
The last char can be an "E" for european standard model, without some sort of decoder used for north countries.

Anyone can say how big of a difference is between those models from quality standpoint?
 
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No, you want the one with 3D because it benefits 2D image quality.

Get the Panasonic ST, best price/performance by far.
 
Meeho said:
No, you want the one with 3D because it benefits 2D image quality.

Get the Panasonic ST, best price/performance by far.
Click to expand...

Love that you gave the answer I was looking for, couldn't expect better, but I would love to know a few details if you can about how does the 3D benefits the 2D, cause I got absolutely no clue.
 
They have to make the panel faster and whatnot for 3D, so any technology they implement in the plasma cells and electronics ends up benefiting 2D also.
 
Meeho said:
They have to make the panel faster and whatnot for 3D, so any technology they implement in the plasma cells and electronics ends up benefiting 2D also.
Click to expand...
It also benefits LCD too. Implementation of 3D capability immensely improves an LCD panel's ability to eliminate motion blur for 2D.

-- For example, all the rave reviews about LightBoost computer monitors for 2D zero motion blur, is because LightBoost was originally a 3D technology.
-- 3D LCD HDTV's often have superior scanning backlights that eliminate more motion blur during fast sports. See existing technology such as Sony Motionflow XR 960 and Samsung Clear Motion Ratio 960.

Also, TFT Central also touches upon this as well; about how the 3D technology ended up improving 2D motion blur elimination. See the section about Ideal Scanning Backlights. They said LightBoost greatly outperforms every scanning backlight they ever tested. (LightBoost actually has less motion blur than plasma)
 
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cerbul said:
However, since there is no such thing as totally real 120 hz input and 120 hz real output (or is there?) I decided to go with plasma.
Click to expand...
Good news. Provided you buy an active 3D HDTV, follow:
HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO -- 120 Hz from a PC into HDTV.
Several 3D HDTV's have an undocumented ability to accept native 2D 120 Hz.
Reportedly, the Plasma VT50 (2500 Hz FFD) plasma displays are one of the displays that seem to have an undocumented "secret" ability to accept 120 Hz from PC.
Only two reports exist; please post if you get 120 Hz into your plasma.

Make absolutely sure you think plasma is the right choice. Some people prefer plasma for gaming, others prefer LCD. You may want to test out both. You do need to spend extra for a good motion-blur-eliminating LCD, however. It's easier to get a cheap plasma that eliminates motion blur in games. Also, if you are planning to get LCD HDTV, consider an HDTV that has a feature similar to LightBoost. The Sony HX950 has a "Motionflow Impuse Mode" which is a stroboscopic backlight that does not use motion interpolation. It has more input lag than LightBoost, you have to exit Game Mode to enable it, but it does have less input lag than regular Sony interpolation. The main problem is that it flickers more, like a 60 Hz CRT, but it's good for your 60 fps console video games and HTPC games. (Even at 60 Hz, there's far less motion blur than traditional non-stroboscopic 120 Hz).
 
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I got one last question. I saw an old LG plasma model in a local store. It was fairly low contrast and washed out, but I am not sure if there wasn't someone doing it on purpose or was simply an old bad plasma. However, assuming that it was with optimal settings, I would like to know what exactly could have cause that, and if the newer plasmas are less washed out then IPS LEDs with more then 60 hz. I am really concerned about this as the washed out screen from older LCDs are something I want to avoid at all cost. The difference is also visible in the youtube movie that shows how it looks a 60 hz monitor compared to an 120 hz one. And the 60 hz one is extremely washed out. I am trying to avoid that at all cost.

@ Mark Rejhon: Is it only the motion blur that is being improved in plasmas that have 3D implemented? Or is it also the contrast, making it less washed out? The thing is, I don't care that much about motion blur in a TV, though I find it totally important in a FPS game. What I really care about is to not have a washed out image.

EDITED for clarity:
TN vs IPS is an obvious example where one looks washed out compared to the other, also, 120 hz TN vs 60 hz TN is in the same boat with a clear difference. Between IPS 60 hz and 120hz monitors isn't such a big difference.
Ofc, motion blur is another aspect, but as I said, I am thinking first about washed out images. That is what really bothers me.

Plasmas are not letting light out, as that would throw them in the same boat with backlight panels. But this also means that they are a bit less good at watching in very bright environments. My question is, for home usage, in the evening, with ceiling lights on, how bad is it?
 
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By the way, I am almost convinced I won't do any gaming on it, though I am sure I will watch a few movies from computer. So I am not that concerned about motion blur, as is not something that visually bothers me (obviously not high levels), but when fps gaming is something that will not allow you to notice an enemy that is far from you, especially in games like quake, unless you stop your mouse in every direction for a few moments, which will put you in disadvantage.

What I really do want in my TV is to not have washed out LCD colors. At home, in the living room, light comes from a side, and the room itself is towards north, so no problems with too much light.However, I need to make sure somehow that plasma is not washed out that much that will become a problem during the day. Also, will incandescent light in this room during evening, make the plasma feel too washed out? Or is only this particular case where not only the plasma that I saw was fairly old, but also the amount of light in the store is huge.
 
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