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What is the difference between transaprency and cd quality?

N

Newsboys2004

Gawd
Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
592
I have extremely good ears. Lets get that across. I can hear better then very young people. I ask them to tell the difference between songs that our of a slight difference, and... they can't :confused: ... Anyways, I encode all my songs at 160 bitrate ogg, or I do now since I noticed a HUGE difference going from 320 bitrate mp3...

I mean HUGE...

So, is there another huge difference in going from transparancy to shorten, or something like that? I'm about to have 850 gigs of space, I could always reencode...
 
It depends on what you're using to play back the music. If you've got computer speakers (none are very resolving) or cheap headphones, you probably won't be able to tell. Your "extremely good ears" won't do any good if your stereo sucks. If you have real audio equipment or good headphones, the difference between any mp3 or ogg and lossless should be obvious.

If you're going to bother reencoding, I'd recommend using FLAC, since it's an open format.
 
I use creative itrigue l3800's and x-fi, for headphones I use e3 shures...

for playback i use foobar with asio...
 
Yes, I have superior hearing. I can hear the difference on pc speakers.... I can hear the difference between 192 bitrate mp3 and wma files... >_<
 
Whoa buddy, you getting a little carried away with the posting there? And how do you know you have "superior hearing" if you've never heard something from someone else's ears?

I mean, I can hear dog whistles and tvs being turned on anywhere in my house, but I would never claim to have superior hearing.

BTW, you wont notice any difference at all with those speakers or headphones from 320k mp3 and flac. You can generally only tell a difference in encoding when you really turn up the volume with some nice components.

I'm guessing this is probably placebo effect. :rolleyes:
 
placebo huh? Try this:

The highs are higher (or rather, more virbrant), the lows are... I can't really describe that... the voices sound more clear, I can hear the persons saliva in their mouth now...
 
Moofasa~ said:
Well if he can distinguish that "highs are higher" on .flac then he must have "superior hearing"... :rolleyes: ...
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No reason to threadcrap. maybe he does have superior hearing - not EVERYTHING on the intarnets is a lie...
 
rayman2k2 said:
No reason to threadcrap. maybe he does have superior hearing - not EVERYTHING on the intarnets is a lie...
Click to expand...

The highs are higher (or rather, more virbrant), the lows are... I can't really describe that... the voices sound more clear, I can hear the persons saliva in their mouth now...
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me rayman? :confused:
 
Moofasa~ said:
Are you kidding me rayman? :confused:
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I assumed he was talking about the clicking a mouth does (caused by saliva, tongue, etc) when you talk, etc...
 
Newsboys2004 said:
Yes, I have superior hearing. I can hear the difference on pc speakers.... I can hear the difference between 192 bitrate mp3 and wma files... >_<
Click to expand...
Use your power for good. :D
 
Well, I started hearing people's mouth when I upgraded my soundcard. New speakers just made the sound bigger and have more depth and power (wattage) along with better highs and low range.

All my MP3s for the most part are in 192kbps, and when ripped they are using the UberStandard in EAC.

Really, above 192kbps, there is very minimal difference if any. oggs do have different sound, but MP3 is still superior in compatability and the sound you come back to IMO.
 
I would say if you had a hearing test and claimed high frequency detection, maybe I could believe that. All things considered 2 years ago I had a hearing test done on me and found I could detect, albeit slight sounds past the normal 20khz range. I wouldn't consider myself to have "superior hearing" as the reason I was there was because I thought I was going nuts with a ringing in my ears, turned out some of the lights in the place I worked were emitting a high humm that I was picking up on. For most people sounds >18khz is really freaking annoying and almost painful in some cases...

It all comes down to the equipment you use to play back the sound you hear. The better the equipment, the more obvious the inconsistencies in sound will be to the average user. Does this mean that that user has superior hearing? Not really, it just means usually the equipment is amplifying and emphasizing the problem in the recording. After sampling some audiophile equipment I have come to the conclusion that I cannot afford another high price hobby. Between being a car enthusiast and pc enthusiast, my money is already accounted for.
 
Audiophile stuff, as with all hobbies, uses the laws of diminishing returns.

What is the difference between an MP3 encoded at 96kbs and 192 kbs? A lot. Whats the difference if you encode it to 320kbs, just a little better. What about when you go balls out and encoded it at a nearly 1000kbs FLAC? Not much better than the 320.

Same goes for speakers. Whats the difference between a $100 soundsystem and a $500 soundsystem? A ton! From a $500 set to a $1000 set? Not too much. From a $1000 setup to a $10,000 setup? Very little.

Being that your speakers are already on the very low end of the speaker spectrum, you might notice a huge difference if you upgrade to a real setup with real sized speakers when listening to a lossless file or straight from a CD (with a nice DAC on the CD player). Same goes for the phones, Shures are nice and all, but they can't come close to an amplified set of nice open cans. I should know, I'm actually building a Millett Hybrid tube amplifier and buying some HD555s to spice up my room listening since my main system is going in the living room of my apartment.
 
Once I was at a party and I drank a glass of wine really fast, felt a nice buzz from that, then I looked at the bottle and it was non-alcoholic.

ABX testing plz.
 
Svperstar said:
Once I was at a party and I drank a glass of wine really fast, felt a nice buzz from that, then I looked at the bottle and it was non-alcoholic.

ABX testing plz.
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^^^ QFT ^^^

You'd be surprised at some of the results ABX returns. The brain can be tricked by a lot of different things. Lossy compression works by taking advantage of those tricks, but psychological factors can have a large influence as well.

I'm also surprised that with your superior hearing that you settled with 192 mp3's to begin with - that must have been maddening! (and a poor choice)

for some reason, I envision the Tom Cruise / Oprah couch debacle when I read your ecstatic postings...
 
killernoodle said:
Same goes for speakers. Whats the difference between a $100 soundsystem and a $500 soundsystem? A ton! From a $500 set to a $1000 set? Not too much. From a $1000 setup to a $10,000 setup? Very little.
Click to expand...
I've got to strongly disagree with that. The difference between a good $1000 speaker and a good $10,000 speaker is *huge*. You might argue that the difference between a $10k speaker and a $20k speaker is not that big, but you'd be wrong there too. Granted, there are some $20k speakers that I don't like as well as some $10k speakers, but that doesn't mean there's no difference between them. Listen to the Avalon Isis ($58k), the Marten Coltrane ($50k) or the Kharma Mini Exquisite ($55k) and compare them to any sub-$20k speaker out there. The difference in quality is not subtle. If you really want to destroy your theories about diminishing returns, take a listen to the Accapella Triolon Excalibur ($145k). As a long time audiophile, the Trilons redefined what recorded music is truly capable of for me. They're truly in a different league than anything else I've heard. I might even go so far as to say they're a better value, in terms of price and quality, than just about anything in the $50k range.
 
Fine, whatever. Believe whatever you guys want. I can't prove this to you, and I really don't care. I have great ears, and that's all that matters to me.
 
agent420 said:
^^^ QFT ^^^

You'd be surprised at some of the results ABX returns. The brain can be tricked by a lot of different things. Lossy compression works by taking advantage of those tricks, but psychological factors can have a large influence as well.
Click to expand...

Yea, I was reading a post over at the headfi forum about a phsycological test that was done on some supposed audio experts. They told them they wanted their opinions on three different speaker cables, two high end and one just regular speaker wire. They couldn't agree on which of the two high end cables were better but they all agreed the low end cable sounded inferior. The fact is they never changed the cable and they were listening on regular speaker cable all along.
 
I did a test myself once. A friend had a music cd that he claimed sounded better because he had marked the outside edge with a black magic marker. It turned out I had the same cd without the magic marker. I couldn't hear any difference at all. No two people hear the same so I suppose it is possible but I'm inclined to think things like magic markers around the edges of cd's, liquids on your speaker cables and interconnects to improve connection etc. is just snakeoil.
 
Newsboys2004 said:
Fine, whatever. Believe whatever you guys want. I can't prove this to you, and I really don't care. I have great ears, and that's all that matters to me.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. Foobar offers a free ABX testing tool. Go check it out.
 
Go find some lossless content.

Make a copy of it and encode the copy in a 192kbit mp3.

Load the ABX tester, load up both files. Have it go.

See if you can achieve a statistically significant success rate, and post results.

ABX works like this. you are given 3 samples, A, B, and X. A and B are the lossless and encoded versions of the file, X is one picked at random. You are allowed to listen to all 3, and you must identify if X is A, or if it's B. Do a set of trials (20 is a decent starting point), and see if you can be right > 75% of the time.
 
Gatticus said:
Yea, I was reading a post over at the headfi forum about a phsycological test that was done on some supposed audio experts. They told them they wanted their opinions on three different speaker cables, two high end and one just regular speaker wire. They couldn't agree on which of the two high end cables were better but they all agreed the low end cable sounded inferior. The fact is they never changed the cable and they were listening on regular speaker cable all along.
Click to expand...

wow, that's embarrasing, lol;p
 
Steve01S4 said:
I've got to strongly disagree with that. The difference between a good $1000 speaker and a good $10,000 speaker is *huge*. You might argue that the difference between a $10k speaker and a $20k speaker is not that big, but you'd be wrong there too. Granted, there are some $20k speakers that I don't like as well as some $10k speakers, but that doesn't mean there's no difference between them. Listen to the Avalon Isis ($58k), the Marten Coltrane ($50k) or the Kharma Mini Exquisite ($55k) and compare them to any sub-$20k speaker out there. The difference in quality is not subtle. If you really want to destroy your theories about diminishing returns, take a listen to the Accapella Triolon Excalibur ($145k). As a long time audiophile, the Trilons redefined what recorded music is truly capable of for me. They're truly in a different league than anything else I've heard. I might even go so far as to say they're a better value, in terms of price and quality, than just about anything in the $50k range.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the point of diminishing returns is that while you might see a difference between a $10,000 set of speakers and a $145,000 set of speakers, you KNOW that unless you are a brainwashed audiophile it is not worth it to spend $135,000 more for that improvement in sound. If you're rich, go for it, but dont mortgage your house for them.

Same goes for MP3s. If you have a terrabyte of hard drive space and you dont mind filling it with FLACs, be my guest. But if it comes down to loading up an ipod or something and you can only fit 120 or so songs on it because they're so damn big, I'd rather encode them at something much more sane and be able to fit it all on there.
 
I can hear the difference with the regular earbuds that came with my cowon x5 let alone on my Axiom M3Ti's or Senn 280's. Flac is great, mp3s feel dirty to me now hehe. I don't even put them on my cowon.
 
killernoodle said:
Same goes for MP3s. If you have a terrabyte of hard drive space and you dont mind filling it with FLACs, be my guest. But if it comes down to loading up an ipod or something and you can only fit 120 or so songs on it because they're so damn big, I'd rather encode them at something much more sane and be able to fit it all on there.
Click to expand...

It is insane how cheap HDs are these days, you can get 250 gig HDs for next to nothing. HD space is becoming irrelevant it is so plentiful now. I hardly have a terrabyte. I have a 300 gig main drive, and a 120 gig backup drive dedicated just to music, and it has quite a few lossless files(I perfer .ape to .flac)

Also what I do is just pick the songs I want and convert them with DBpoweramp to .mp3 for my iPod. it is all saved to C:\ConvertedMusic. The again I don't change my iPod all that often.
 
peacetilence said:
I can hear the difference with the regular earbuds that came with my cowon x5 let alone on my Axiom M3Ti's or Senn 280's. Flac is great, mp3s feel dirty to me now hehe. I don't even put them on my cowon.
Click to expand...

There is no way you can tell 100% of the time the difference between say 256k-320k mp3 and lossless. No way in hell. I haven't seen a single person that has done the ABX testing able to do anywhere near 100%, even people with very expensive systems.
 
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