What is shimmering?

D

deadman_uk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
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Can someone explain to me what shimmering is? I heard NVIDIA cards suffer from this quite bad. What is it?

Can it be fixed through improved drivers? Should I avoid getting a 7900GT because of this?

Screenshots or videos would be great!

thanks
 
It's a battleground separating opposing sides in a war for brand superiority and IQ goodness. It takes no prisoners, and pulls no punches.
 
banGerprawN said:
It's a battleground separating opposing sides in a war for brand superiority and IQ goodness. It takes no prisoners, and pulls no punches.
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qft


i gots a 7800 gt and dont have the slightest issue with shimmering on any game
 
Shimmering is Aliasing that seems to flash, or textures that sort of wave at a certain distance.

I personally couldn't stand it on my 6600GT.
 
yea shimmering is the marching ants, and screenshots wont do you anygood cuz its only really seeable when the angle changes, some pixels (usually highly condensed information ie on the horizon) just say screw it. and dont move, you you sorta get this like pixel misfiring deal. and yes it can be improved through drivers, AA also is a big help, it removes alot of the effect as the two adjaces pixels are now the same color (more or less).
Borgschulze said:
Shimmering is Aliasing that seems to flash, or textures that sort of wave at a certain distance.

I personally couldn't stand it on my 6600GT.
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really? i bought this thing (6600GT) ages ago and it has had waaayyyy less shimering then my old 9800.

hope that helped
 
From another thread:

Battlefield Shimmering

Right click, save as.

It's basically that wavey effect on the ground as you approach it. Similar to the illusion of water you might see in the distance on a hot asphalt surface.
 
waltherone said:
... It's basically that wavey effect on the ground as you approach it. Similar to the illusion of water you might see in the distance on a hot asphalt surface.
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no the water effect is like a mirror, this is more of a, "god damnit this is pissing me off" illusion :D btw theres a name for that ashpault deal, whats it called?
 
It's something that a few people are very pick about.

It's supposed to be a problem with Nvidia cards but I never noticed it on my 6800GT.
 
banGerprawN said:
It's a battleground separating opposing sides in a war for brand superiority and IQ goodness. It takes no prisoners, and pulls no punches.
Click to expand...
Yup, FTR I notice shimmering in certain games with my 9700p and in just about every PS2 game and it doesn't bother me. I can understand someone being miffed at their five hundred dollar card spitting out shimmering textures everywhere though.
 
MrWizard6600 said:
really? i bought this thing (6600GT) ages ago and it has had waaayyyy less shimering then my old 9800.

hope that helped
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I never had shimmering on my 9800 pro. Sounds like you were overheating.
 
Ive seen shimmering oj each brand, it may happen a bit more on NV but it most certainly is "SOFTWARE" problems....inside the chip or in the driver, its all software.

maybe someday bother manufacturers will have all the instances sorted out, but it apparently is a low priority in both camps.

I can replicate shimmering on x1900 in Farcry anytime. Some in AArmy and Counterstrike too.
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Ive seen shimmering oj each brand, it may happen a bit more on NV but it most certainly is "SOFTWARE" problems....inside the chip or in the driver, its all software.

maybe someday bother manufacturers will have all the instances sorted out, but it apparently is a low priority in both camps.

I can replicate shimmering on x1900 in Farcry anytime. Some in AArmy and Counterstrike too.
Click to expand...

So you mean that you have to try and induce shimmering on the x1900? That's a lot better than trying to reduce shimmering.
 
deadman_uk said:
Can someone explain to me what shimmering is? I heard NVIDIA cards suffer from this quite bad. What is it?
Click to expand...

Texture shimmering looks like pixel popping or sparkling. This should be evident all over the screen. It's basically not enough filtering to avoid a pop or sparkle when a pixel's underlying texture changes abruptly.

Can it be fixed through improved drivers?
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With NV, forcing LOD clamp to zero in the CP should help with misbehaving games. With both NV and ATI, forcing texture quality to High in the CP/CCC helps.

Should I avoid getting a 7900GT because of this?
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the effect seems to be quite subjective or blown out of proportion as it doesn't really bother some people while others are very vocal about it.

having both a 7800 and an 1800xt, i really don't notice it being much worse on either (they both do it), although the xt seems to be affected by it a little less. it certainly doesn't bother me more on one than the other.

Screenshots or videos would be great!

thanks
Click to expand...

screenshots don't show the effect, and while i have seen some make videos, the resolution is such it doesn't show it well either. there may be a good quality vid which shows this effect, but i haven't seen one.
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
Ive seen shimmering oj each brand, it may happen a bit more on NV but it most certainly is "SOFTWARE" problems....inside the chip or in the driver, its all software.

maybe someday bother manufacturers will have all the instances sorted out, but it apparently is a low priority in both camps.

I can replicate shimmering on x1900 in Farcry anytime. Some in AArmy and Counterstrike too.
Click to expand...

No. I can sum up the loose ends of this thread nicely. Both manufacturers were guilty of angle dependent aniso. This is using weaker filtering on certain angles to save power. When you're moving around, it can be cause shimmering. They hardwired it into hardware. I guess they got used to it. ATi has stopped doing that with it's x1k series. It still has angle dependent opts but as it is not hardwired into hardware, it can be shut off by enabling HQ AF. Nvidia cards can move to Ultra Quality to reduce shimmering. ATi is the leader here, and no driver will fix it.

Other things from others are out of place a bit to. When it comes to comparing to older Radeons that's fine and dandy but I'd imagine most discussions nowadays are x1k's vrs. GF6's and 7's where there is a difference. If meant "ATi does it too," then no, they are not equally guilty anymore.
 
Oh, and like the post above my last one states, use clamp on Nv too if you care.
 
CaiNaM said:
With NV, forcing LOD clamp to zero in the CP should help with misbehaving games. With both NV and ATI, forcing texture quality to High in the CP/CCC helps.
Click to expand...

Not for my 6600GT...
 
texuspete00 said:
No. I can sum up the loose ends of this thread nicely. Both manufacturers were guilty of angle dependent aniso. This is using weaker filtering on certain angles to save power. When you're moving around, it can be cause shimmering. They hardwired it into hardware. I guess they got used to it. ATi has stopped doing that with it's x1k series. It still has angle dependent opts but as it is not hardwired into hardware, it can be shut off by enabling HQ AF. Nvidia cards can move to Ultra Quality to reduce shimmering. ATi is the leader here, and no driver will fix it.

Other things from others are out of place a bit to. When it comes to comparing to older Radeons that's fine and dandy but I'd imagine most discussions nowadays are x1k's vrs. GF6's and 7's where there is a difference. If meant "ATi does it too," then no, they are not equally guilty anymore.
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Agreed, well put, well put. I couldn't agree more.
I have played AA, Far Cry, CS, BF2, CS:S, Day of Defeat: Source, Q4, BattleFront:II, etc and have not experienced shimmering with an x1900xtx
 
deadman_uk said:
OK thanks all for the replies, this has not put me off ordering a 7900gt
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I don't like to beat the issue of shimmering, but I do recommend seeing both brands/cards in real life before you start giving out cash.
Some people notice, some people don't, and some people just plain don't care.
I'd really not like to see another thread on here with something along the lines of "Exchanged 7900GT for X1900 because of shimmering!" .
 
MrWizard6600 said:
no the water effect is like a mirror, this is more of a, "god damnit this is pissing me off" illusion :D btw theres a name for that ashpault deal, whats it called?
Click to expand...

A mirrage
 
Anybody here play any PS2 games? Isn't FFX chock full of shimmering?

Anyways, I notice it on some games alot, Cronicles of Riddick and GTA:SA are plagued, but it's usually not very noticeable at all. Also, I heard that CoR:EFBB also had pretty bad shimmering on ATI cards.

-wil
 
ivzk said:
So you mean that you have to try and induce shimmering on the x1900? That's a lot better than trying to reduce shimmering.
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Ah the fanchilder just cannot help themselves can they?
 
I don't know about the rest of you [H] guys, but I see freaking shimmering in real life, so I don't know how the hell they're going to get rid of it in a game.
 
pigwalk said:
Anybody here play any PS2 games? Isn't FFX chock full of shimmering?

Anyways, I notice it on some games alot, Cronicles of Riddick and GTA:SA are plagued, but it's usually not very noticeable at all. Also, I heard that CoR:EFBB also had pretty bad shimmering on ATI cards.

-wil
Click to expand...

its FFXI and yes even on PC do to the way the game renders it will shimmer BAD on any vid card since it renders in the front buffer it breaks all forms of AA and AF
 
Worldhammer said:
Ah the fanchilder just cannot help themselves can they?
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Why don't you quote what i quoted in my post, my little pre-teen?! Don't pretend you're neutral. No community outreach invites are to be had that way.
 
lozaning said:
i gots a 7800 gt and dont have the slightest issue with shimmering on any game
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QFFT

unless you are looking for it, you WILL NOT see it with 16x AF and 2x SSAA.
 
My question is why is it there in the first place? ATI cards dont seem to have this problem. :(
 
texuspete00 said:
Uh.... have you read my post. Sheesh.
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So what your basically saying is Nvidia is doing this to raise frames per second at the cost of image quality. Man, do I feel cheated!
 
DaCoOlNeSs said:
QFFT

unless you are looking for it, you WILL NOT see it with 16x AF and 2x SSAA.
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False. Under certain settings (large LCD) it is easy to see, no matter what driver setting is used.
 
Mrwang said:
My question is why is it there in the first place? ATI cards dont seem to have this problem. :(
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Actually ATI cards do have this problem, most notably in WoW and COD2. It would seem to have more to do with how the game is written and or how the drivers are handling the game code.
 
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