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What is CMSS-3D?

C

Circuitbreaker8

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Messages
5,078
Ok, I have an X-Fi Fatal1ty and I just use it for music and games. Its hooked up to my Klipsch PM Ultra 5.1's, and it sounds amazing. BUT, I never really knew what CMSS3D was. I see it there, and I usually have it set @ Stereo Surround for music in entertainment mode and just keep it off in game mode(except w/ headphones). What is it? Should I enable it? What if the source is 5.1...why would I need upmixing? Sorry to sound like a noob lol
 
Basically it takes the two channel stereo content and mixes it across all speakers, it has two modes, one is expanding the soundstage, based on calculated position, to be located across all speakers instead of just left and right, and it has another more basic mode that simply dupes front and back wile seperating center stage content and directing it to the center speakers.

CMSS 3D Headphone is the mode that really gets the attention...that actually gives one of the best 3D positioning effect of any headphone...and it does it using standard stereo headphones. It's an impressive achievement and works very well for gaming where you have to use headphones.
 
I have it enabled on mine. It gives it a fuller sound with music and stuff like that. I would turn it on to stereo expand. That gives it a better "surround" sound.
 
Especially for games. That's what the CMSS-3D is primarily intended for. I have an XtremeMusic and it definitely helps in positioning for two channel sound input. I'm awaiting a pair of HD-280 to test it more in depth, as my PC-155s weren't closed ear and not very isolated, also no decent lows or highs :(
 
The movement of the sound across a simulated 3D soundstage in CMSS-3D is very impressive. If you just wanted a single headphone to do it all for gaming and music, it's undoubted that a good regular headphone and CMSS-3D does a great job. On for games, off for music. However I still prefer my Speed-Link Medusa 5.1's for gaming when compared to the Sennheiser Orpheus with CMSS-3D enabled.
 
Circuitbreaker8 said:
Ok, I have an X-Fi Fatal1ty and I just use it for music and games. Its hooked up to my Klipsch PM Ultra 5.1's, and it sounds amazing. BUT, I never really knew what CMSS3D was. I see it there, and I usually have it set @ Stereo Surround for music in entertainment mode and just keep it off in game mode(except w/ headphones). What is it? Should I enable it? What if the source is 5.1...why would I need upmixing? Sorry to sound like a noob lol
Click to expand...
CMSS-3D is somewhat of a multi-headed beast. It's an upmixing algorithm for stereo sources akin to Neo:6 and others. It's a HRTF positional algorithm for stereo output, either speaker or headphones, with some of it based on older Sensaura and Aureal technology.

Oh, multichannel sources that are 5.1 or more are bypassed and untouched.

So it can generate a multichannel effect from stereo sources, or simulate multichannel sound on stereo output.
 
Ok, so....

for headphones, I should enable CMSS-3D ( Stereo surround or Stereo Xpand? )

But what about my Klipsch 5.1 speakers?
 
Circuitbreaker8 said:
Ok, so....

for headphones, I should enable CMSS-3D ( Stereo surround or Stereo Xpand? )

But what about my Klipsch 5.1 speakers?
Click to expand...

For Headphone use CMSS-3D to do two things;
1. Xpand 2 Channel source to multiple speakers.
2. Xpand 2 Speakers or Headphones to sound like 5.1 or etc. speakers. When a 5.1 source is used.

Don't use CMSS-3D with 5.1 speakers and a 5.1 source. It screws up real discrete playback.

You're playing a game that supports 5.1 output. If you only have headphones, enable CMSS-3D. This then makes the Headphones sound like 5.1 speakers. Similar can be heard from 2.1 speakers.

Donnie27
 
Ronco said:
The movement of the sound across a simulated 3D soundstage in CMSS-3D is very impressive. If you just wanted a single headphone to do it all for gaming and music, it's undoubted that a good regular headphone and CMSS-3D does a great job. On for games, off for music. However I still prefer my Speed-Link Medusa 5.1's for gaming when compared to the Sennheiser Orpheus with CMSS-3D enabled.
Click to expand...

The Medusa's work that well? Even more so than something as expensive and highly regarded as the Orpheus's... and then coupled with CMSS-3D? Wow... that is an amazing thing SL pulled off. Maybe I should order a pair just to give them a try and see if I will like them better than my HD 595 for games.
 
lol, they might be slightly better at position but they sound like a wet fart in a can for everything else compared to orph
 
threedd97 said:
The Medusa's work that well? Even more so than something as expensive and highly regarded as the Orpheus's... and then coupled with CMSS-3D? Wow... that is an amazing thing SL pulled off. Maybe I should order a pair just to give them a try and see if I will like them better than my HD 595 for games.
Click to expand...

I find I can immediately place sounds easier on the Medusa. And I think that's what matters most in FPS gaming. The Medusas have four drivers (including the shaker) in each earcup and the orientation of each driver clearly helps with the sound location. I have to say though, it's no replacement for a 5.1 speaker system. The 3D soundstage on both the CMSS-3D and on the Medusa is still not that realistic.

Obviously the Medusas are not the best music phones, although I have to say that hooking the Medusa amp up to the 5.1 outputs of a Sony SCD-XA9000ES, I found I could sit through a piano concerto in multichannel SACD without thinking "now that's really bad"... let's just say it's usable. The amp is prone to some interference from both PC and other EMI, and requires careful siting to get silent (it is possible). 2-channel performance is somewhat dire. There seems to be an overload of some sort which results in distortion. Regardless of whether I plugged the Medusa amp's front-channel inputs into the dCS Elgar Plus DAC, Sendstation iPod Line Out, RME Fireface or when the X-Fi was set to 'Headphone' or 2-channel mode, there was the same distortion. This is definitely an amp issue rather than a phone issue though, and the best thing is to keep the soundcard in 5.1 mode with bass redirection enabled all the time. Careful volume setup reaps rewards too. You can use cheat modes in games to set it up, or Rightmark.
 
Donnie27 said:
For Headphone use CMSS-3D to do two things;
1. Xpand 2 Channel source to multiple speakers.
2. Xpand 2 Speakers or Headphones to sound like 5.1 or etc. speakers. When a 5.1 source is used.

Don't use CMSS-3D with 5.1 speakers and a 5.1 source. It screws up real discrete playback.

You're playing a game that supports 5.1 output. If you only have headphones, enable CMSS-3D. This then makes the Headphones sound like 5.1 speakers. Similar can be heard from 2.1 speakers.

Donnie27
Click to expand...

the 5.1 comes out true with cmss.. cmss only works when there's a stereo signal
 
Lol, I don't understand half the things you guys are saying so i'm just going to enable it for cans and leave it off for 5.1 speakers in games....
 
Circuitbreaker8 said:
Lol, I don't understand half the things you guys are saying so i'm just going to enable it for cans and leave it off for 5.1 speakers in games....
Click to expand...
Creative expects you to have it on for surround audio in games.
 
I also own the Klipsch Pro-media 5.1 Ultra's and an X-Fi XtremeMusic card. I've been playing around with CMSS 3d since I got it and still have not definitively figured out what is 'best' given a situation.

My biggest confusion is why you have to choose between the Xpand and Stereo Surround upmixing modes when enabling CMSS 3D for -games.- I have no idea, nor is it intuitively obvious which does what in games. All descriptions for those two modes refer to music, not games.

I've had it on Stereo Surround for awhile. Now I'm switching to Xpand for a bit. I have had it enabled in the games that I play, which are CS 1.6 (not 5.1) and BF2 (assuming it is 5.1). I still have trouble locating sounds in BF2, although it's nice to now hear footsteps.

For music, I did the same thing. Xpand tends to make some songs have too much bass and drown out the vocals...other songs sound nice. So I guess your mileage varies. Gone back to Stereo Surround for music.

Finally figured out that if I set PowerDVD 6.0 to SPDIF it will send the signal directly to X-Fi to process digital/dts/etc. That one took me awhile.
 
OK. If you are using headphones, turn it on no matter what your source. If you are listening to music, turn it on. If you are watching a DVD, turn it off. If you are playing a 5.1 game, turn it off. Basically whenever your source is different from your output, turn it on. Clear! Hope that helps clarify what everybody else has said. I basically just repeated everything.
 
mastephens said:
OK. If you are using headphones, turn it on no matter what your source. If you are listening to music, turn it on. If you are watching a DVD, turn it off. If you are playing a 5.1 game, turn it off. Basically whenever your source is different from your output, turn it on. Clear! Hope that helps clarify what everybody else has said. I basically just repeated everything.
Click to expand...

2 Things:

1. This ignores the contention that 3DMSS has a "smart" feature which disables itself in given situations when it detects a 5.1 source. I have no idea if this is true and for when.

2. This ignores the fact that turning it on is not enough for game mode, you also have to choose which mode you want.
 
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