What have you heard?

[eMpTy]

I read on the inquirer (I know I know) that Nvidia's new drivers should be out soon. We all know that this will be their final trump card, but now the matter has been dropped. Has anyone heard any more about these drivers? Seen any betas?

To the HardOCP staff, I trust you'll be redoing your benchmarks when and if these new drivers show up, have you heard anything about when they'll be finished (the drivers that is)?

Is it just me, or is the X800 series beating the 6800 series in your benchmarks only because Ati's anistropic filtering is more "optimized"? Is that a fair judgement?

-eMpTy

 

[Lowtax]

An optimization is not a bad thing.

An optimization is not a cheat.

Pleae buy a dictionary and glance over it before you decide the meaning of a word. Internet forums full of drooling retards who have read way too many Nvidia/3dmark articles have redifined a word.

op·ti·mi·za·tion (pt-m-zshn)
n.

The procedure or procedures used to make a system or design as effective or functional as possible, especially the mathematical techniques involved.

ATi has used an adaptive filtering algorithm to achieve better performance with no loss in image quality.

Yes, the benchmarks are fair.

Pull your head out of Nvidia's ass and put it in a book or two. You'll be doing us, and more importantly, yourself a favor.

 

[eMpTy]

Wow...nice reply...if you'll read my post again you'll see that my question is simply whether the anistropic optimizations are what put Ati ahead of Nvidia...I put quotes around the word "optimizations" because it's really just a different way of doing things and the loss in quality, though not readily perceivable, IS present which makes it not conform to the strict interpretation of the word "optimization", which, in my opinion, denotes that the process is loss-less, which it clearly is not. Either way I don't give a damn because it seems to look just fine.

Where you got the word "cheat" from, is simply beyond me...Where you got the negative connotation of the word "optimization" is beyond me...

And I wasn't asking if the benchmark is fair, you twit, I was asking if I was correct in saying that it was the anistropic filtering optimizations alone that put Ati ahead in HardOCPs benchmarks...

If anyone's head is up any ass at all, I believe it would be yours, planted squarely in your very own rectum...

Despite your apparent recto-cranial inversion, I took your advice and bought a dictionary...and while I was "glancing over it" I found your picture, right next to "ati fanboy"...

-eMpTy

 

[Bad_Boy]

i emailed the inq earlier today about the drivers, they(mike.magee@theinquirer.net) said they havent heard anything new.

 

[eMpTy]

I must admit when I saw the article about them coming out it sounded a bit too early...but I'm extremely curious to see what they can do...This is the last thing that could potentially make the performance crown change hands again...well for now anyways...

-eMpTy

 

[LabRat]

I've been hearing about upcoming nVidia "miracle drivers" since the 5800ultra reared its nasty head. What appeared had IQ hacked to shit and still lacked in performance. But still the "miracle driver" rumor persisted, fueled by the blind faith of some rather naive people. It was always "in a few days". Guess what--it never showed. These wont either.

 

[eMpTy]

jesus...that's so wrong I just won't even say anything...

 

[retardedchicken]

*claps for LabRats poignant post*

the way i see it, ATI fanboys will say they wont do shit, Nvidia fanboys say they will be uber 1337 and pwn the x800 series

me? i would like to see performance with drivers but it wont make me buy that 600 dollar 6800U...will we see a "50% performance increase in FarCry" ? doubt it

i think ill take the x800 pro

 

[eMpTy]

I was under the impression that it was common knowledge that nvidia regularly releases drivers which increase the performance of their cards by 10-15%...it happened with the GeForce 3...and it happened with the Geforce FX...and it's GOING to happen with 6800...the only question is when, and will it be enough...

LabRats post wasn't poignant, it was ill-informed...and your name suits your well retardedchicken...

Posting on this forum is quickly proving to be a waste of my time...

-eMpTy

 

[RW2112]

Oh, come on guys, let's everyone grab their drum emblazoned with their favorite logo and bang on it till the stick breaks...

The real issue is which card looks to provide the best image quality and performance for the price you are willing to pay. Period.

For some that will be ATI and for others it's Nvidia. We are always going to have these "my card is better than your card" dog fights. For me as long as the card I chose gets me acceptable framerates and acceptable IQ then it's all good....

 

[eMpTy]

all I was trying to do was ask a question...I swear...

 

[Brent_Justice]

To the HardOCP staff, I trust you'll be redoing your benchmarks when and if these new drivers show up, have you heard anything about when they'll be finished (the drivers that is)?

We will not be re-doing any benchmarks, we stand by the results in or initial 6800U Preview with 60.72 drivers.

We have bypassed using 61.11 drivers.

When an official WHQL driver is released we will of course use it.

Is it just me, or is the X800 series beating the 6800 series in your benchmarks only because Ati's anistropic filtering is more "optimized"? Is that a fair judgement?

That is not a fair judgement.

ATI has implemented an Anisotropic Filtering adative algorithm since the Radeon 8500. Now NVIDIA also implements one in the GeForce 6 series for Anisotropic Filtering. They also both have Trilinear Filtering Optimizations, all of which are very valid optimizations.

 

[M4d-K10wN]

Well, I really like the offset mapping. And the OpenGL performance won't hurt, come Doom 3 time... But w/e. I'm not upgrading this round; going to wait till PCI-E

 

[eMpTy]

Brent...thanks for the reply...but I think everyone is missing my point...I'm not asking if the optimizations are cool or not...I'm asking if that is where Ati's advantage lies...like...if you turned off anistropic would Ati still be the winner?

And yeah, screw the beta drivers, that's a waste of your time...I was mostly wondering if you guys had heard anything about the drivers...the Inq was saying they were going to be all crazy fast...but they aren't the most reliable of sources...

-eMpTy

 

[Brent_Justice]

Brent...thanks for the reply...but I think everyone is missing my point...I'm not asking if the optimizations are cool or not...I'm asking if that is where Ati's advantage lies...like...if you turned off anistropic would Ati still be the winner?

AF optimizations are not an advantage to either one specifically, both the GeForce 6 series and X800 series uses an angle dependent adaptive algorithm for AF, which does improve performance over not using an adaptive algorithm.

If you were able to turn this off for AF performance would probably be so slow that it would be unplayable, either way you look at it AF is a very expensive image quality enhancement and these adaptive algorithms are needed for these cards to accelerate AF fast enough to be useful. Look forward to these algorithms evolving with more intelligence.

The same applies to Trilinear Filtering as well.

I think I know what you are asking, but it doesn't make sense with trying to find the card that provides the best gameplay.

You want me to use No AA and No AF and have both cards at the same resolution and test them "apples to apples". Well, we did that here and you can see the results, start here and it continues on the next page: http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjExLDg=

And yeah, screw the beta drivers, that's a waste of your time...I was mostly wondering if you guys had heard anything about the drivers...the Inq was saying they were going to be all crazy fast...but they aren't the most reliable of sources...

i haven't heard anything but rumors, and i don't buy into rumors, only cold hard facts

 

[Blackwind]

I was under the impression that it was common knowledge that nvidia regularly releases drivers which increase the performance of their cards by 10-15%...it happened with the GeForce 3...and it happened with the Geforce FX...and it's GOING to happen with 6800...the only question is when, and will it be enough...

LabRats post wasn't poignant, it was ill-informed...and your name suits your well retardedchicken...

Posting on this forum is quickly proving to be a waste of my time...

-eMpTy

Yup. It happened with the Geforce 3.

No. It most definitely did NOT occur with the Geforce FX.

The FX was a freaking flop in comparison with prior entries from nVidia to the vid card wars. There was no amount of re-writes or other that made a differance with the FX release. The only thing that even helped them were new renditions of FX hardware AND drivers to even try to compete.


<is still trying to find crazy fast in the dictionary. The 9800 Pro was the still the crown holder when the dust settled. It really doesn't matter if there was a new driver released. Until actual retail hits the shelves its kind of a moot point.

 

[eMpTy]

Blackwind...the driver performance for the fx series was with ps2.0 stuff...remember when the fx series was behing in Half-life 2 by like 50%? Now it's only by like 5 or 10 or something...so there was a huge improvement, just not enough to win...that's why I'm asking the question...this time around...will it be enough?

-eMpTy

 

[SEALTeamSix]

Oh, come on guys, let's everyone grab their drum emblazoned with their favorite logo and bang on it till the stick breaks...

The real issue is which card looks to provide the best image quality and performance for the price you are willing to pay. Period.

...For me as long as the card I chose gets me acceptable framerates and acceptable IQ then it's all good....

This post bears reading again. The truth is out there, my friends...

-SEAL

 

[FrgMstr]

We will be using either WHQL drivers, drivers shipping with NV cards, or drivers available from the NV site. Whichever is the lastest and officially publicly available.

I expect NV to have a new driver drop ready today.

 

[eviltommy]

I read on the inquirer (I know I know)

the inq is great, its like an internet soap opera!

back to the point: i think Terry Makedon said that all the ati catalysts have been WHQL certified which is nice but it got me thinking of my gf4 ti4600 days.. werent the detonators WHQL certified back in the day? or is just my imagination?

 

[Blackwind]

Blackwind...the driver performance for the fx series was with ps2.0 stuff...remember when the fx series was behing in Half-life 2 by like 50%? Now it's only by like 5 or 10 or something...so there was a huge improvement, just not enough to win...that's why I'm asking the question...this time around...will it be enough?

-eMpTy

I'm pretty sure it's been answered several times...even in the various ways you've asked. No. Until we see:

A) Final retail 6800 hardware
B) Final WHQL drivers

...we are making best guess.

Half-Life 2?? What on earth does Half Life 2 have anything to do with your question. The game isn't even released......and doesn't change the fact the FX series was a flop.

 

[jacuzz1]

Wow...nice reply...if you'll read my post again you'll see that my question is simply whether the anistropic optimizations are what put Ati ahead of Nvidia...I put quotes around the word "optimizations" because it's really just a different way of doing things and the loss in quality, though not readily perceivable, IS present which makes it not conform to the strict interpretation of the word "optimization", which, in my opinion, denotes that the process is loss-less, which it clearly is not. Either way I don't give a damn because it seems to look just fine.

Where you got the word "cheat" from, is simply beyond me...Where you got the negative connotation of the word "optimization" is beyond me...

And I wasn't asking if the benchmark is fair, you twit, I was asking if I was correct in saying that it was the anistropic filtering optimizations alone that put Ati ahead in HardOCPs benchmarks...

If anyone's head is up any ass at all, I believe it would be yours, planted squarely in your very own rectum...

Despite your apparent recto-cranial inversion, I took your advice and bought a dictionary...and while I was "glancing over it" I found your picture, right next to "ati fanboy"...

-eMpTy

 

[LabRat]

.....LabRats post wasn't poignant, it was ill-informed...

-eMpTy

Hmmm, I'm not sure what was poignant about my post either, but it certaintly was not ill-informed. I'm quite familiar with the generation of cards I have spoken of, currently owning both a 5900 and a 9800pro, and soon will replace the 9800pro with either a x800pro or 6800gt. I dare say I'm also more familiar with drivers than most on this forum.

Exactly what big performance increase did you find from the FX series? Please be specific. 3dMark2001? For the 5800ultra, increased performance almost invariably came at the expense of IQ. No "miracle driver" ever showed up. What saved the FX line was the introduction of new hardware, i.e. the 5900.

There are no miracle drivers, there never will be. You may see some minor gains in specific titles (sometimes in engines) as bugs are fixed, but hardware will always be the limiting factor. Drivers can't create extra fillrate.

And why are people bashing the 6800 anyway? Its a damn good chip as it is. It doesn't need miracle drivers, it just needs to be bug-free. It seems to compete very well against the x800pro speed-wise, from what I have seen. If nVidia can give me that kind of speed with a smooth, bug-free driver without IQ hacks, the 6800gt may become my next card.

 

[eMpTy]

Labrat and Blackwind,

Half-life 2 has nothing to do with my question, I'm just pointing out what nvidia is capable of doing with driver revisions, which I shouldn't have to do, it should be obvious.

Labrat, I don't doubt that you know about the current generation of cards, but nvidia has been releasing "miracle" drivers for a long time now...all the way back to the original geforce...they typically release a new architecture, then release relatively stable drivers which compromise speed for compatibility, then later go back and re-optimize those drivers. I know specifically with the Geforce 3 series they got almost 15% more out of the card with a driver revision...same with the Geforce FX series...

The only difference between a 5900 and a 5800 is the memory architecture (DDR1 256 bit vs DDR2 128 bit) and the fan...the 5900 was clocked lower, but did better becuase it was horribly memory bandwidth limited before...and then there were the drivers which did all kinds of wierd re-compiling of shaders and stuff to get them like 25% more performance in ps2.0 games...

I wouldn't exactly call the FX series a flop...it wasn't the fastest, and they weren't as good as the 9800 series...but Nvidia still made some money off them...and the image quality has always been just fine in my experience...and I've never had any driver issues...

But whatever, Kyle says the drivers might drop today, so I guess we'll see what's what when that happens...

-eMpTy

 

[M4d-K10wN]

HL2 is more demanding in therms of CPU that video card..