What does 1 billion colors mean?

J

Juardis

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
310
Just reading about the new Hitachi 37" LCD that uses an IPS-Alpha panel and the article mentioned that it could display 1billion colors. What does that mean? Does it mean it can display a larger color gamut or something else entirely?
 
It means that the display can display one more than 999,999,999 colors. :)

I am sure it is just a direct reference to the gamut.
 
10bit panels... 1024shades per colour (instead 8bit, of 256) 1024x1024x10240=1 073 741 824 colours
 
I realize this is a HDTV, so you'll most likely need HDMI 1.3 to make use of those 1billion colors. But if it is PC compatable, are there any video cards (consumer oriented) that can render 1billion colors?
 
I found this on the HDMI 1.3 web page...
Q: What is meant by the term “Deep Color™” and why is it important?
Deep Color™ lets HDTVs and other displays go from millions of colors to billions of colors allowing consumers to enjoy unprecedented vividness and accuracy of color on their displays. Deep Color™ eliminates on-screen color banding, for smooth tonal transitions and subtle gradations between colors. It enables increased contrast ratio, and can represent many times more shades of gray between black and white.


Q: What is “xvYCC”?
HDMI 1.3 adopts use of the IEC 61966-2-4 color standard, commonly called xvYCC (shorthand for Extended YCC Colorimetry for Video Applications). This new standard can support 1.8 times as many colors as existing HDTV signals. xvYCC lets HDTVs display colors more accurately, enabling displays with more natural, vivid colors .


Q: What is the difference between “Deep Color™” and “xvYCC?”
Deep Color™ increases the number of available colors within the boundaries defined by the RGB or YCbCr color space, while xvYCC expands the available range (limits) to allow the display of colors that meet and exceed what human eyes can recognize.
Click to expand...


I'm surmising then that 1billion colors on the Hitachi Display means that it will allow the display of 1 billion colors within the existing RGB gamut. This answers my question then. I was wondering whether the color gamut was increased and it appears that it is not.
 
The question is then, even if a product has HDMI 1.3, does (for example) a BluRay disc have the data for that many colors? Does the screen interpolate between the colors automatically filling in the missing colors? Or does the source material have to also support all those colors for us to see them?
 
Juardis said:
I'm surmising then that 1billion colors on the Hitachi Display means that it will allow the display of 1 billion colors within the existing RGB gamut. This answers my question then. I was wondering whether the color gamut was increased and it appears that it is not.
Click to expand...

No, I think that the color gamut is exactly what is being increased. xvYCC increases the number of unique color states within the color gamut of the display device, and "Deep Color" (from what it sounds like) increases the color gamut itself but does not affect the number of unique color states.

Please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is based on this article from x-bit labs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters.html

If you look at page 13 of the article: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters_13.html, towards the bottom of the page you will see the diagram of the RGB color gamut. This, from what I understand, is what is theoretically possible to represent using the RGB model (i.e. what colors can one theoretically produce using ideally monochromatic sources of "pure" red+green+blue). "Color gamut" refers to how much of this space a given display can actually reproduce (note that the percentage reported as "color gamut" in LCD panel specs is not actually the fraction of the entire space, but rather the fraction of a smaller space defined by the NTSC that is meant to represent a more realistic standard that most ordinary people would find sufficient...thus "72% color gamut" means 72% of NTSC space).

On this page, the typical LCD state-of-the-art (72% NTSC) is shown as the sRGB, and as you can see, it's quite small. Now go to this page: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/lcd-parameters_16.html. Look at the space that the new Samsung LED-backlight XL20 model can produce...it's quite a bit bigger (114% NTSC). This has nothing to do with the input bit precision. If I send the LED-based panel the color (0,255,0), it will produce a "greener" green than the standard CCFL one.

There are new LCD panels coming out now that have a better backlight than the standard CCFL (cold-cathode flourescent light) in today's LCDs. I think they are still CCFL-based, but use a better mixture of gases. They are not as good as LCD lights, but can do a color gamut of 92%->97% NTSC. My guess is that the Hitachi panel is one of these.

Mofongo
 
I think a number of concepts may be getting jumbled here. the 37inch Hitachi products (I do not recall if they are shipping there 1080P panels yet) are using LG-Philips LC370WX2 and LG-Phillips LC370WU2 manufactured panels. These are 10bit Super IPS technology panels that are 1366x768 and 1920x1080 respectively. They are "television" LCD's. No consumer grade LCD "computer" panels manufactured today are 10 bit panels. The new "color champion" NEC2690 uses the LG-Philips LM260WU1 8 bit panel in its "computer" monitor. Most LCD computer monitors are 8 bit or even 6 bit. By its very nature 10 bit panels are capable of producing many more color combinations than an 8 bit panel and thus a potential for expanded gamut. Mofongo is right on that score. In fact the LC370WX1 and LC370WU1 are similar LG-Philips 8 bit television LCD panels that are spec'd at 72% saturation whereas the 10 bit panels (2) verson panles are spec'd at 92 percent saturation. Of course so much more goes into what is actually displayed in the final product. Color Gamut as finally displayed can be greatly impacted by the type of backlight the LCD uses. That is why you will shortly see 8 bit computer LM260WU1 type products with LED backlight that have 114% color saturation versus the currently displayed 92% saturation; stepping up color gamut to another level. Hitachi appears to be stating a theoretical maximum color capability of the panel included in its set. Stating this maximum is not necessarily what the viewer will necessaily see if the rest of the monitor is designed in a less than optimal performing manner somewhere else in the signal path from input to panel.

Regarding HDMI 1.3 this is a consumer connection designed to provide among other things the needed bandwidth to support 10 bit color at 120Hz and more. Previous iterations of the HDMI connection did not have the pipeline to support 10 bit resolution at 120hz. It has been speculated that, if tested, few of the currently produced HDMI cables are even capable of passing 1080P @ 60hz. Broadcast has used for several years the very robust HD-SDI interface to handle this capability and more. The HDMI connection and cable has no impact on image except for the ability to support a stated amount of throughput from source to the monitor. It is easy to be wooed by the fancy language and names used by the HDMI group. They make it sound like there connection is performing some sort of magic to the video signal creating better color rendition and deapth etc. After all they make a royalty for each HDMI connection placed in every licensed unit plus money on the key to operate that connection. One cannot blame HDMI for a little marketing as there are two other competing high bandwidth consumer connections showing up on computers and monitors now that lack royalty payments. However excluding the issues of encryption and audio, it really is nothing more than a connection enabled for greater bandwidth and throughput between source and monitor.

I think the truly breathtaking aspect of these LG S-IPS television panels and the Hitachi set is the 120hz frequency. 120hz is in some Sony and Samsung television LCDs also, If you have ever seen video or games on a 120hz panel you will absolutely demand why is this not in computer monitors today. The 120hz panel ends all discussion of blurs, artifacts or any other panel induced motion deficiencies in gaming images.
 
120Hz does not mean the signal sent by video source ....but most likely the speed of the liqid crystals able to twist from full white to black and back to white.. 120Hz would equals to 8.33ms... not that much faster/even slower than 2ms/4ms GtoG TN panels. So it is.. not like there is a sudden 2x jump in speed from 60Hz (16ms) to 120Hz(8ms) but a gradual faster panel that is below 8ms that have been produced
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top