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what do you think?

O

OofC_S7v7N

Gawd
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
723
I plan on my new build going to use water cooling, this will be my actual first time doing complete wcing, on the rig im running now its using a reserator for my 7800gt. But for my new build i want to have water cooling for cpu, gpu, and nb. I have a list of parts and want to get your guys idea on what would be better or more efficient.
radiator
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/4085/ex-rad-86/Danger_Den_Black_Ice_GT_Stealth_240_X-Flow_Radiator_-_Black.html?tl=g30c95s160
reservoir
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2235/ex-res-90/XSPC_Passive_150mm_Reservoir_-_BLACK.html?tl=g30c97s167
pump
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2128/ex-pmp-27/Swiftech_MCP655_12v_Water_Pump_w_38_Conversion_Kit_317_GPH.html?tl=g30c107s155
cpu block
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2021/ex-blc-231/Danger_Den_TDX_775_Copper_Water_Block_Intel_775.html?tl=g30c85s141
nb block
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...Intel_Chipset_Block_M4i6CS.html?tl=g30c89s149
gpu block
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...ooling_Block_DD-8800GTX-PC.html?tl=g30c87s145

I'll be using a c2d e6600 asus 680i sli mobo, bfg tech 8800gtx, ive been thinking about this setup for awhile and the reservoir would be mounted on the back of tj-09 right were the slots are for tubing then go into the pump on the bottom of the case next to the psu then up into the radiator that ill have to modify to fit on top of the case where the 2 spots are for 12cm fans then to the cpu, the nb, the gpu, back to the reservior. So comment back on what you guys think and any suggestions.
 
Feel free to actually give us the names of the components you want to use in your loop. Most here won't click on all those links.
 
O Ok,:eek: thought pictures speak louder than words, buts its alright. What do you think of the components ive chosen to water cool with. I want to do something that looks clean but still perform well over any wcing kit ive seen. I can picture what i will look like in my head, but havent found a way to draw it out.
 
lol I see you didn't listen to the advice. fine, i'll click your links

i will say first and foremost frozen is really expensive usually.

and it looks like I'm going to be beating on everything you picked pretty much.

First, I researched your case and found that it has some abnormal spacing up top, and will take a 2x120 with some creativity, but nothing more. For your setup, I would have recommended a 320 rad, but I doubt you'd be interested in that, so..

For your case, I found http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138637&highlight=tj09 to be useful. Perhaps it will give you some ideas as well.

As for the rad, bi gts 240. I'd normally suggest a mcr320 or pa120.3. But in your case, since you're only interested in a 2x config, I'd guess you wouldn't be too thrilled with the mcr220 unless you got some loud fans. And that gts for sure isn't a good choice.

So I'd highly recommend you go for the pa120.2, wait until you have money for it if you don't, or stick to air cooling. Otherwise, you'll be sorry.

Reservoir. ABSOLUTELY NOT. you'll destroy your waterblocks quickly with this. Any agents you use will only buy you more time, but it won't prevent it.

Pump you chose is decent, but 3/8" conversion? You're not using 1/2"? A good choice as well would be the ddc2 (mcp355) with an aftermarket top like petra's or alphacool. Would run about $100. the mcp655 is a good pump too, and I'm glad you didn't choose the mag2.

tdx. old block. if your budget for it is $53, then the apogee gt would be in your price range. I'd recommend the fuzion over it though for $64.

chipset cooling. most people would say to avoid this, and stick to traditional cooling, whether simply with a fan over the northbridge, or switching to something like the hr05 or similar more effective heatsink. i can't disagree with that, but i don't want to be hypocritical, since I've got a mcw30 ready to go in. but either way, the maze4 isn't too bad for cooling the northbridge either. however, $43 is an absolute joke. I bought my mcw30 last week for $26. so if you can't be convinced to stick with air or passive, then definitely look around and don't buy from frozen.

dd 8800. look for the ek if you want full cover. better.

now for where to look:

www.petrastechshop.com
www.jab-tech.com
www.sidewindercomputers.com

to list a few.
 
Definitely go full cover on the 8800GTX...

Also, stay away from the BIP GTS radiator, the MCR220 is a better choice all around!

The res is good, as long as it's decoupled from your case. HEED THESE WORDS! Dont' let ANY aluminum piece of that radiator make electrical contact with the rest of the case! Use rubber washers and nylon screws to hold it up, and you'll be fine... Metal screws will create a path to ground, which could very well start the corrosion process.
 
ziddey said:
lol I see you didn't listen to the advice. fine, i'll click your links

i will say first and foremost frozen is really expensive usually.

and it looks like I'm going to be beating on everything you picked pretty much.

First, I researched your case and found that it has some abnormal spacing up top, and will take a 2x120 with some creativity, but nothing more. For your setup, I would have recommended a 320 rad, but I doubt you'd be interested in that, so..

For your case, I found http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=138637&highlight=tj09 to be useful. Perhaps it will give you some ideas as well.

As for the rad, bi gts 240. I'd normally suggest a mcr320 or pa120.3. But in your case, since you're only interested in a 2x config, I'd guess you wouldn't be too thrilled with the mcr220 unless you got some loud fans. And that gts for sure isn't a good choice.

So I'd highly recommend you go for the pa120.2, wait until you have money for it if you don't, or stick to air cooling. Otherwise, you'll be sorry.

Reservoir. ABSOLUTELY NOT. you'll destroy your waterblocks quickly with this. Any agents you use will only buy you more time, but it won't prevent it.

Pump you chose is decent, but 3/8" conversion? You're not using 1/2"? A good choice as well would be the ddc2 (mcp355) with an aftermarket top like petra's or alphacool. Would run about $100. the mcp655 is a good pump too, and I'm glad you didn't choose the mag2.

tdx. old block. if your budget for it is $53, then the apogee gt would be in your price range. I'd recommend the fuzion over it though for $64.

chipset cooling. most people would say to avoid this, and stick to traditional cooling, whether simply with a fan over the northbridge, or switching to something like the hr05 or similar more effective heatsink. i can't disagree with that, but i don't want to be hypocritical, since I've got a mcw30 ready to go in. but either way, the maze4 isn't too bad for cooling the northbridge either. however, $43 is an absolute joke. I bought my mcw30 last week for $26. so if you can't be convinced to stick with air or passive, then definitely look around and don't buy from frozen.

dd 8800. look for the ek if you want full cover. better.

now for where to look:

www.petrastechshop.com
www.jab-tech.com
www.sidewindercomputers.com

to list a few.
Click to expand...

I can fit a 3x120 in the top of my TJ-09 with relative ease. I don't see why you seem to think that the "Only" rad you can fit in there is a 2 x 120mm rad. A 2 X 120 will fit up top easily but if you center a triple rad under the opening and cut out the center bit between the two fan openings the rad will only overlap the ends by about 1.5". The rad can be dropped about 1/4" and added to the stock 3/8" offset that's 5/8" between the rad and the roof. It's just a matter of sealing off the rad to the roof to duct the warm air out the stock opening and viola...a triple rad in a TJ-09.

The hardest part will be making the brackets to hold the rad in the stock opening but it's not that big of a deal either. I'm going to be doing that very thing here next weekend and I'll post a worklog. Mine will be for a double 120 rad since I don't have a triple but I'll outline what needs to be done to accommodate the triple.
 
Arcygenical said:
Definitely go full cover on the 8800GTX...

Also, stay away from the BIP GTS radiator, the MCR220 is a better choice all around!

The res is good, as long as it's decoupled from your case. HEED THESE WORDS! Dont' let ANY aluminum piece of that radiator make electrical contact with the rest of the case! Use rubber washers and nylon screws to hold it up, and you'll be fine... Metal screws will create a path to ground, which could very well start the corrosion process.
Click to expand...
You don't need contact to the case for galvanic corrosion.
madmat said:
I can fit a 3x120 in the top of my TJ-09 with relative ease. I don't see why you seem to think that the "Only" rad you can fit in there is a 2 x 120mm rad. A 2 X 120 will fit up top easily but if you center a triple rad under the opening and cut out the center bit between the two fan openings the rad will only overlap the ends by about 1.5". The rad can be dropped about 1/4" and added to the stock 3/8" offset that's 5/8" between the rad and the roof. It's just a matter of sealing off the rad to the roof to duct the warm air out the stock opening and viola...a triple rad in a TJ-09.

The hardest part will be making the brackets to hold the rad in the stock opening but it's not that big of a deal either. I'm going to be doing that very thing here next weekend and I'll post a worklog. Mine will be for a double 120 rad since I don't have a triple but I'll outline what needs to be done to accommodate the triple.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't own the case. I just did some quick searching to see what others have done. I probably missed out on others who have successfully done a triple rad. Plus, seeing how OP posted about 240's, I figured he wasn't going to be considering harder work, if you want to view it as harder. But OP, if you will consider a triple, then mcr320 is a great choice.
 
ziddey said:
You don't need contact to the case for galvanic corrosion.


Sorry, I don't own the case. I just did some quick searching to see what others have done. I probably missed out on others who have successfully done a triple rad. Plus, seeing how OP posted about 240's, I figured he wasn't going to be considering harder work, if you want to view it as harder. But OP, if you will consider a triple, then mcr320 is a great choice.
Click to expand...

The opening in the roof of the TJ-09 is longer than the MCR 220 in overall length. Not by much but it is longer. That's how I know the 320 (or pick your favorite flavor of triple rad) would fit up top.
 
Arcygenical said:
Definitely go full cover on the 8800GTX...

...

The res is good, as long as it's decoupled from your case.
Click to expand...

As far as the res comment, the coolant itself will be all that is needed to cause the corrosion. No to-case electrical contact is needed.

As far as the GTX needing full coverage, I don't think so. A GPU block and something like the MC8800 heatsink kit from Swiftech would be fine. The GTX GPU makes more heat than the GTS GPU, but I don't think the surface mount components change enough to matter.

I wouldn't mount those heatsinks with the included tape, however. You can put a bit of thermal compound in the center with very small dots of superglue at the corners, I have found this works very well. Avoid using enough compound that it mixes with the superglue, and vise versa, and your good (I was). I have also proven they are removable with out damage, since I have "removed" one and succesfully re-applied it, and the card still works. :D

Also, I would not go with an "impinged" (that's the correct term, right?) waterblock, even the TDX. You just add one more thing that can cause trouble later (clogged nozzles). Why do that to yourself?
 
As far as the res comment, the coolant itself will be all that is needed to cause the corrosion. No to-case electrical contact is needed.

As far as the GTX needing full coverage, I don't think so. A GPU block and something like the MC8800 heatsink kit from Swiftech would be fine. The GTX GPU makes more heat than the GTS GPU, but I don't think the surface mount components change enough to matter.
Click to expand...

First off, A galvanic cell works like a battery, it won't corrode unless both terminals are jumped. A voltage differential must exist for it to work.

BEAKER.gif


And yes, while the 8800GTX doesn't need a fullcoverage block, it's a much smarter idea. The external RAMDAC on my GTS rose to ~90c without a 120mm fan blowing on it directly.
setup.jpg


That's not something I wan't getting that hot, especially if you're going to be overclocking. The Vregs and MOSFETS also pump out a lot of heat... and that swiftech ramsink solution is plain ugly. The price difference for the full cover is about 40$ more, so why not?

ziddey said:
You don't need contact to the case for galvanic corrosion.
Click to expand...

Then what do you need? You need an electrical connection between the dissimilar metals... The case is often grounded to the CPU/GPU IHS, which are electically touching the waterblocks. I can't think of a better candidate for a common ground.
 
alright i have read everyones suggestions and comments, i dont see any problem with radiator and reservoir , and to the pump i just planed on taking off the 3/8 converter. I cant understand how the reservoir screwed into the back of the case could get any electric currnet
 
OofC_S7v7N said:
alright i have read everyones suggestions and comments, i dont see any problem with radiator and reservoir , and to the pump i just planed on taking off the 3/8 converter. I cant understand how the reservoir screwed into the back of the case could get any electric currnet
Click to expand...

Well, if my understanding of corrosion is correct, and I do belive it is (most internet and textbook sources agree with me) there is an electrical pathway between the copper CPU block and the common ground. The IHS on the CPU is most definitely grounded, infact I just tested it and it is. So, the copper waterblock touches ground through the IHS and socket of the processor.

The case is often referred to as the common ground (just try touching a live 12v PSU lead to the inside of your case :eek:) due to it's connection to the PSU.

Now, if both the waterblock and the res can come into contact with the case, there's an electrical connection between them.

It's not "getting current" but it generates current. If 2 dissimilar metals are immersed in an electrolitic fluid, and connected electrically (albeit by a solder joint, wire, physical connection or, through the common ground) they will generate a current. Electrons move from the less noble metal (in this case aluminum) to coat the more noble metal (copper in this case). Ions flow the exact opposite way (from the more noble metal, to the less noble metal) through the electrolytic fluid. This flow of electrons and ions creates a voltage differential (of about 300mv for a water loop, I've tested it) between the metals, and starts the corrosion process. Just like a battery works, by 1 metal consuming the other, your aluminum will begin to fade away.

Now, using a 15% concentration of Pentosin will pretty much alleviate most corrosion concerns, but it does hurt your performance a little bit. You can go about 2 years on a 15% concentration before you get some actual corrosion action going on.
 
alright i have read everyones suggestions and comments, i dont see any problem with radiator and reservoir, unless you guys have personally had problems with those two choices i cant make any conclusion, and to the pump i just planed on taking off the 3/8 converter. I cant understand how the reservoir screwed into the back of the case could get any electric currnet. But ive been looking for another cpu block and i think i found it, Swiftech Apogee GTX Extreme Performance, looks like a good block. For putting in the radiator i was going to take out the fan brackets for the fans and just get some screws and screw it in directly form the top of the case, through the mesh. But everyones reply was duly noted, i might find that you guys are right, but as for now im going to look around to try and replace these components, oh i found this might replace the regular 240, Danger Den Black Ice GTX Xtreme 240, has gotten really good reviews, has the cooling capability of the 320, i was also thinking about getting a bay reservoir like the typhoon single 5.25 bay reservoir.
 
Once again, I'll recommend against a bay reservoir because they're so damn hard to fill. Try a swiftech microres.
 
The GTX 240 has the capacity of the MCR320 when it's used with two very high flow fans (read that as loud as hell) as opposed to the the 320 with three with very quiet fans. seems like a lose / lose proposition to me but, hey, they're your ears. Personally i'd go with the quieter setup but I live in the same room with my PC and it runs 24/7 and I like to be able to sleep peacefully rather than get woken up by my PC sounding like I'm sleeping on the approach path to JFK airport.
 
like mentioned, the gtx prospers mainly from extremely loud fans


arcygenical, i think you're right about the grounding.
 
Do you think that i would get better performance mounting the radiator out side the case and having the fans turned down during browsing, then when i am defending the western front, crank the fans up?
 
Yes, most likely. I had my 240 on a radbox outside my Zero case and the temps were very good indeed. Actually though I ran my fans at 7V all the time and it was great.

That said I'm still going to be putting my rad in the roof of my TJ09.
 
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