What can cause a system to lock up?

N

n64man120

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
3,498
I've got an old system that keeps freezing when I'm using it and I can't figure out why.

Occurs:
- Sitting idle for short or long time
- Running under high load, or web browsing with nothing else going on
- Any time, could boot and freeze in a minute, or last 24 hours

Tests:
- Memtest ran fine for 36 hours, tried 2 different sticks, same result
- Prime95 ran fine for 12 hours
- Swapped PSU, same results (current PSU fine in other rig)
- Mobo is Abit VH6, I RMA'd it for leaking caps... issue occured with old mobo, and still does
- Swapped Videocard
- Reformatted system
- Locks up randomly in WinXP and Linux environments

Haven't swapped:
- HDD -> Quantum 30GB (5 years old and LOUD)
- CPU -> P3 733Mhz

My thoughts:
Well I really dont know what the cause could be. By process of elimination though, it can only be the old CPU going bad, the HDD going bad, or the new mobo from RMA isn't good. None of these possibilities make sense in my mind, so let me know what you think the cause is. I don't think I've left a stone unturned here.
 
Perhaps run diagnostics on the Quantum. That would be my culprit at this point.
Next the Mobo.
I doubt the PIII 733 is going bad really. You can take those out and use them for doorstops, put them back in and they still work. :p

A guess is the Quantum.

GL :)
 
Hrmm, do I need Quantum specific software or can I use WD or some other diagnostic tool? The Quantum website doesnt seem to have anything.

Edit: Google says Maxtors utility is for Quantum drives too, so NVM
 
Well I burned an ISO of the diagnostics, system went to boot it and said "Starting Caldera DR-DOS". And it won't go beyond this message, just says in in text on bottom of screen right after post info. I tried pressing caps lock to confirm it froze up.

I tried burning the disk again, at 16x to be safe... and same result.
 
Does MaxBlast have anything to do with diagnosing my problem? Assuming I preserve the filesystem on it atleast.

That is the PowerMax I used, but the ISO version.

I suppose I could go the floppy route, but first I need to find a drive that works. And then install it into the problematic system, theres no way I'll be able to hook it up to my main rig with the wiring I have.

Would any other diagnostic programs work, or should I dig up a floppy and install it?

You were right with the PowerMax for diagnosing .
 
n64man120 said:
Does MaxBlast have anything to do with diagnosing my problem? Assuming I preserve the filesystem on it atleast.

That is the PowerMax I used, but the ISO version.

I suppose I could go the floppy route, but first I need to find a drive that works. And then install it into the problematic system, theres no way I'll be able to hook it up to my main rig with the wiring I have.

Would any other diagnostic programs work, or should I dig up a floppy and install it?

.
Click to expand...

You were right with the PowerMax for diagnosing.

I'm checking something..........Sorry had to go turn off my water here :p

Well, I'd try the floppy since PowerMax works well for Quantums. However, it seems alot for you to just get to that point. Installing a spare hard drive, might be easier. If you get a spare up and running and the system is stable, you'll know it's the old Quantum. Yes they are loud and get louder when they're failing.

If you go through all that trouble just to install a floppy and it happens that the Quantum is indeed failing, you'll need to replace it anyway. So perhaps save a step here and test with another HDD.

gl :)
 
I'll see whichever is easier and give it a shot today, ironicly I was typing this same post on the problematic system last night when it locked up on me and died :eek:
 
Well I put another HDD in the system. I presume it works since it's been running in another old system fine till a constand BSOD made the system useless a few weeks ago. During XP installation on the new HDD on the problematic system, it locked up all 3 times I tried to install it, and at various progress points (which seems significant to me).

Thoughts?
 
Do you feel that the new board is sound and not having the leaking caps issue again perhaps.

Also, how much ram does the old system have? I ask because of XP.

I hate to say it , but I would check the new drive too. Again the process of elimination

that you've been doing already. See if it'll complete a diagnostic. If so, than you can move

on to another possible issue.

Other than RAMing the board, did it work well prior to that?

Cleary you’re not having good luck :(
 
I'll give diagnostics a shot on the new drive, if it fails I'll try putting it into another system and seeing if it will install. I've just got a 128 meg stick in for testing purposes, but I have 2 of them... although I've installed WinXP on 128 before. The new board doesnt seem to have bulging or leaky caps, but maybe it's just too soon to tell.

I can't remember if the board was ever perfect since I got it third hand from someone who hasn't using it anymore about a year an a half ago and I never really used it a whole lot. Going to do some more tests to totally eliminate the HDD as the cause, then I'll take it from there.
 
Well good luck with this n64man120.

I just spent an hour and 1/2 going back in time to research all the old issues with that board. Bulging caps being the famous known issue of course, and the main reason to random reboots and freezes naturally.

One complant from as recently as 04-06-2005 from a company with over 50 computers using these ABIT VH6 motherboards in their CO. test lab. But lost many to what was until recently an unknown motherboard failure. They had been putting power supplies in these computers right and left for over a year. They just checked 34 motherboards that are still in use and found all 34 have leaking or bulging capacitors. Thier real problem is that they have ghost images of 19 operating systems in 5 languages each, which is hundred's of hours of work so....

Anyway since you've already run the board, you know the issues with the early VIA chipsets also and it's compatibility problems. So I didn't see the point in getting into that since you already know it. ;)

I hate to say this but I've never been a fan of the early Via Chipsets from my PIII days. They were the biggest pain. I never got over the shock. LOL! ( Not that Via is at all responsible for the bad caps on these boards of course. )

Good Luck :)

But then PIII boards are only 20 dollars or so now a days. All is not lost.
 
Yea I'm sure I could replace it for next to nothing... just handy as an extra rig to have lying around.. and for folding. Everything leans toward the mobo despite it appears to be a pristene new one from Abit. I'll get back after totally eliminating the HDD as a cause.
 
Tried re-installing XP about 10 times, going back and forth between 2 HDD's using 2 sticks of ram. I mix and matched about every combo possible and nothing worked. Diagnostics started working suddenly, and both drives passed quick test. I'm running the advanced test now. If they pass, next is to get a rig back together I know has working mobo/cpu and toss the drives in there.

Assuming it works, which it should... it must be the CPU or mobo. As said above, mobo is "new" from Abit due to a RMA... which would you suspect it is? I'm thinking mobo so maybe I'll try and get it RMA'ed again for another one. Never heard of a CPU going semi-bad and causing random lockups, but who knows.

edit: Worst comes to worst, could grab something like this for $15-$20. Would much rather RMA board and just wait though, assuming that's the cause granted. Mobo from online vendors are $50-$60
 
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Both HDD's passed the complete advanced test, so they aren't the issue. Put one of the drives into another system and it installed XP first shot.

Soo... CPU or Mobo, and what should I do next?
 
I'm thinking of just RMA'ing the board, anyone have suggestions, or in particular Papa-Ming? I may toss u a pm later
 
Hello n64man120,

As per your first post and later ones; all of your components work through your testing, though not with the system we speak of. And the two test HDD’s came to life...good deal though.

n64man120 said:
Tried re-installing XP about 10 times, going back and forth between 2 HDD's using 2 sticks of ram. I mix and matched about every combo possible and nothing worked. Diagnostics started working suddenly, and both drives passed quick test. I'm running the advanced test now. If they pass, next is to get a rig back together I know has working mobo/cpu and toss the drives in there.
Click to expand...
Makes me wonder about the controllers on the board though it’s new.... but:
per spec for VH6:
- 2 channels bus Master IDE Ports support Ultra DMA 33/66-- up to 4 devices.( Could be flunky due to the odd experience with the drives you’ve tested. ) This thread brought it to mind again too: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=908250

- VIA chipset (VT82C694X and VT82C686A)

Audio
- AC'97 Audio CODEC on board
Note: Are you using onboard sound or an Aureal soundcard by chance? The Aureal had issues with the Via chipset here.

Also, some Riva Vid cards had compatibility problems too, so something else to consider in case.

Or are you using the VH6-II mobo? Though I think the only real difference was a Softmenu III and not Softmenu II.

The CPU. You’ve no doubt checked the bios and set all to default. The PIII 733 is set to default vcore of 1.75V. The heatsink/fan is firmly attached .

Also this other system:
n64man120 said:
Well I put another HDD in the system. I presume it works since it's been running in another old system fine till a constand BSOD made the system useless a few weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Does this other old system happen to be a socket 370. If you tried that cpu swap already forgive me for missing. Would be nice though to see if the VH6 would fire-up and then you’d further narrow down the failure to board or CPU as you obviously know.

Ok, so maybe just basic stuff here to narrow it down now. Take the whole thing apart. Run the mobo out of the box on cardboard etc. Does that bad boy run out of the box with the bare essentials. A different CPU? Worth a shot after all of your testing. It’s the small stuff that kills us doesn’t it n64man120 LOL.

gl :)
 
Well, I'm using onboard sound and a Geforce videocard so that cancells those out. The board is VH6 not VH6-II. The system wont boot on anything but 733 and I do have the vcore set right. Temps are low (in 30's) so I think everything is seated fine. The other system is a slot processor, not exactly sure what it's called since I wasn't [H] back then. Either way, can't swap it although I'd like to. Haven't tried running naked, but I've tried 2 different cases, the current case I took everything out and put back in 3 times.

Only real thing I have to choose is running on cardboard and seeing how it behaves, although that seems like a real shot in the dark. Easier than a total RMA though I suppose
 
i'm going to venture a guess and say that it's something in the southbridge chipset that's starting to screw up. why? in your first post, you said that you ran memtest86 for 36 hours straight with no lockups at all (indicating that your RAM is good), and prime95 ran for 12 (indicating the CPU is good), but every time you try to install an OS, on different hard drives, it locks up on you. the southbridge controls your IDE ports, and likely would not really cause much of a problem when running a memory test or CPU test.

i had an old Abit KT7 that had chipset problems....installing the OS was fine, and doing normal stuff was ok, but the minute i would try to copy anything from the primary to the secondary IDE controller, or vice versa....BOOM! lockup!

if you have an IDE or RAID controller card, try installing the OS with the HD connected to it and see if that makes any difference....it may or may not, as the southbridge also controls the AGP/PCI slots, and will depend on the extent of the damage to the southbridge. of course, you will also likely need a floppy drive to install the drivers for the controller card during the WinXP setup, so that may be a problem......
 
Theres an IDE card in my second system that i've been testing parts in. This second system is a retarted gateway though and It's never wanted to boot without the IDE card, regardless of what I did. Could try swapping it in though and giving that a shot.
 
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