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What ATI should do.

A

AMDXP

2[H]4U
Joined
Jul 9, 2004
Messages
2,631
I think manily the x800pro competes with the 6800 and since it has 256 mb (12 pipelines) of memory why dont they lower the price to around 320-350(x800pro) ... and it would be sure competitor for the 6800 and maybe see the 6800 drop to 250 :D I think the 800xt competes with the gt and the pe competes with the ultra.... poor ati,
 
They need to get the damn XTs out the door, that's what they need to do, before everyone gets sick of waiting and buys a GT. The only reason I haven't gotten one myself is because Gateway still lists my XT as being on pre-order.
 
Did you read the thread on gateway a few days ago? Apparently they screw you over and give you a x8 pro instead of Platinum, me thinks...
 
What ATi needs to do is drop the pro to $325 or so to compete directly with the 6800nu and then release a vanilla XT with 16 pipes...that's about all they can do to take the wind out of the GT...
 
Yeah, Ati needs to drop the price and get a 16 pipe comp. to the GT. I'm really glad I got sick of waiting for my preorder X800 pro and got a 6800GT sittting at my door at home now.
 
ATI definitely needs to get those xt-pe's out the door, because I'm sick of waiting for mine. I was considering paying more for the BFGTech 6800U OC with Watercooling, but then I saw that those weren't in stock either. I definitely need to get that xt-pe soon so I can put together my box (after newegg returns my case, which was broken upon arrival when they shipped it last time).
 
Make more boards so that consumers can actually buy one at any price. This is for both ATi and Nvidia. Lowering the price isn't even on the radar, if anything I'd just be happy if the prices do not go any higher.

Still havent seen many XTs or Ultras out yet. A few pros and GT's (no non-ultras or LE's) have been floating around.
 
btw guys its JUST to doom 3 which you are refering. The x800 pro is a great card and a hardware company isn't going to change its prices based on a single piece of software. If you look at tomshardware's review of the x800 series you will see that in some games the x800 pro even beats the 6800u and stays atop the 6800gt almost everytime. Just because it loses (and horribly..) in Doom 3 does not mean that it isn't a viable $400 card. Because of the rediculous non-availability of the XTs I may go out and buy a pro because I can still play 1280X1024 in doom 3 on high and it will be better in most other games that are out today and certainly Half Life 2 (unless you believe those stupid "beta" benchmarks that that idiot posted,,,I'll go with Gabe Newell thx!)
 
For once, I agree with ^empty^. What we all should have learned from the 9800 vs. 5900 is that a higher clocked 4 pipe card was not going to beat a lower clocked 8 pipe card. The X800 Pro only competes with the 6800 GT in price. Lower the price of the PRO to the NU, and come out with a lower clocked 16 pipe card.
Of course, the reason ATI didn't do this in the first place is that they knew we would just take the 16 pipe card and overclock it to XT speeds. They are bent on castrating the Pro's performance.
Lucky for us, nVidia was willing to create a 16 pipe enthusiast card. Either ATI will have to match it, or lose sales.
 
The X800 Pro competes with the GT in almost every benchmark. It is silly to think they should lower the MSRP for being a few frames behind. While its a lot slower in Doom3 under 1600x1200, in all other games its very close, even faster in some.

nVidia didnt lower their MSRP for the past two years with their FX cards, there is no reason for ATi to do so now. That being said, when the X800GT comes out, they probably will, or drop it all together.

I do think its a bit funny to see an "average Joe" telling a multi million dollar company how to do buisness though. :eek:
 
its hilarious how emotionally involved people get with these videocards and the "wars"

In one game and in a couple benchmarks the X800 Pro gets beat by a few frames per second and everyone reacts like the X800 is a useless card and should immediatly drop in price to "compete" with another card.

Like they're not out of stock just about everywhere at higher than MSRP.

It's a few frames per second people! HELLO?
 
I do think its a bit funny to see an "average Joe" telling a multi million dollar company how to do buisness though.
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Well, when Nvidia's 5800U and 5900U cards competed with the 9800 Pros in price, I believe it was us "average joe's" that changed their minds on pricing.
 
Sorry for the caps locks but people are missing the point...

ITS JUST DOOM 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In most other tests except a few farcry ones the x800 pro easily defeats the 6800gt and sometimes tops the 6800ultra. People are freaking out over Doom 3. You will not play that game nearly as much as you will Half Life 2 if you are going to play both. Doom 3 will be awesome but the meat of it is in single player and if history serves us correctly than you will be playing Half Life 2 much longer than 20 hours (times however many times you beat it which if thats more than 2 or 3 than you are just a nut) because of the awesome multiplayer.

I can hear people yelling quake 4 in the background and, to be honest, if you are buying a card for 1600X1200 2x aa on ultra for this multiplayer game NOW then you are crazy. The Doom 3 engine isn't even totally utilized in Doom 3 today (some id employees said this) and by the time quake 4 (the multiplayer gem of this engine as far as any sane person can see) is released we will be swimming in ONE GIG (1024MB!!) video cards. Also think about the reason (besides the bs that it makes for a more personal, scary experience) the Doom 3 multiplayer is only 4 players? Don't you think its possibly because id could not get it working well because of the extreme graphics and didn't want to raise the min. specs? That's what I think and I'm sticking too it. By the time Quake 4 comes out on this engine we will certainly see a rise in the minimum specs and definitely a rise in the specs for best gameplay.

However, if you are in the market for a video card today the x800 pro is no less a video card than the 6800gt. They each perform different in different games and ATI will be the best in Half Life 2. Think about priorities here...top performance in a single player game for sub 100 hours (if u play FIVE times) or a game with countless mods and excellent mod suport so that if you want to shelter yourself YOU CAN because Half Life 2 can be all you play for the next 4-5 years. I know some people that haven't touched many games since the original Half Life and its mods (namely CS and DoD). And, again as I said above, the Quake 4 argument is invalid because if you are buying a card for performance on the Doom 3 engine (which is going to be used a fair amount, as the Q3 engine was) you might as well wait until the end of this year and get AT LEAST a 512mb card so you can have smooth multiplayer in high res with highest quality.
 
Jonsey said:
Well, when Nvidia's 5800U and 5900U cards competed with the 9800 Pros in price, I believe it was us "average joe's" that changed their minds on pricing.
Click to expand...

How so? They didnt lower the price at all.
 
I'm hoping that Sapphire does a big priced drop on the x800 Pro. I know there is a slim chance of that happening but I can dream, cant I? ;)
 
Actually I'm sure some peeps are thinking of getting an AGP 6800GT/ultra and using it for a month or so, sell it off on Ebay at a slight loss and then getting a whole new PCI-E setup by Christmas.
 
ZenOps said:
Actually I'm sure some peeps are thinking of getting an AGP 6800GT/ultra and using it for a month or so, sell it off on Ebay at a slight loss and then getting a whole new PCI-E setup by Christmas.
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I was thinking about doing that with my XT-PE. Damn you for telling everyone.
 
Even better if you can sell it for a slight gain. Don't worry people who visit the boards here aren't the ones paying the insane prices on Ebay ;)
 
Jonsey said:
They came out with a lower priced XT version that overclocked very well.
Click to expand...

Thats not lowering the MSRP of the 5800U, 5900U, or any other card.
 
Mike Ryna, interesting posts.

I was almost going to the 6800u, based on you being able to play doom3 better (we're talking "ultra high" quality) but if the reverse is the case for HL2, then....I'd go with the x800xt (if HL2 plays better on this)...
 
Mike Ryna said:
Sorry for the caps locks but people are missing the point...

ITS JUST DOOM 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

..............
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LOL...... You really have no idea how many near future games are going to use the D3 engine.

That, is why the big dogs at ATI took all of their driver development people and locked them in the headquarter's dungeon, breaking off all contact from the outside world including their families, until they produce some drivers for D3 that put ATI back in the game.

And I'll bet HL2 is not the saving grace either. But, a year and a half from now when HL2 finally comes out, these current cards won't matter.
 
Mike Ryna said:
In most other tests except a few farcry ones the x800 pro easily defeats the 6800gt and sometimes tops the 6800ultra.
Click to expand...

biased driverheaven.net benchmarks that have filtering optimizations enabled for ati cards but disabled for nvidia cards mean jack squat.

6800GT > X800PRO, 'nuff said.
 
Blad3 said:
Mike Ryna, interesting posts.

I was almost going to the 6800u, based on you being able to play doom3 better (we're talking "ultra high" quality) but if the reverse is the case for HL2, then....I'd go with the x800xt (if HL2 plays better on this)...
Click to expand...

Please dont tell me your even slightly buying into what that idiot was posting? Just about every point that he made was so far off from being fact that I woulda thought that one of the mods would have banned him for stupidity :D
 
DemonDiablo said:
Please dont tell me your even slightly buying into what that idiot was posting? Just about every point that he made was so far off from being fact that I woulda thought that one of the mods would have banned him for stupidity :D
Click to expand...

If anyone should be banned, it should be you. Read the stickies much? I reported this post.
 
fallguy said:
If anyone should be banned, it should be you. Read the stickies much? I reported this post.
Click to expand...

LOL that coming from you means a lot lol. You have to be like among the top 10 flamers on these forums lol :D

I dont think I ever saw you make a post that wasnt trying to pick a fight
 
DemonDiablo said:
Please dont tell me your even slightly buying into what that idiot was posting? Just about every point that he made was so far off from being fact that I woulda thought that one of the mods would have banned him for stupidity :D
Click to expand...

people dont get banned for stupidity but for not following the rules .. if you disagree with him state your opinion in a nicer way please.
 
"DemonDiablo" - he was being bias yes, I don;t agree with him, I'm just typing my thoughts :p
 
I swear justice is blind when one of the most "negative" people on these boards gets a pat on the back :( oh well you win some and you lose some

bad guys 1
Double D 0
:(
 
AMDXPCottonFire22 said:
I think manily the x800pro competes with the 6800 and since it has 256 mb (12 pipelines) of memory why dont they lower the price to around 320-350(x800pro) ... and it would be sure competitor for the 6800 and maybe see the 6800 drop to 250 :D I think the 800xt competes with the gt and the pe competes with the ultra.... poor ati,
Click to expand...


I didn't read the thread, so I don't know if someone said this already, but the XTPE and the XT are the same card, just the XT is PCI-E, and thr XTPE is AGP.
 
ZenOps said:
Actually I'm sure some peeps are thinking of getting an AGP 6800GT/ultra and using it for a month or so, sell it off on Ebay at a slight loss and then getting a whole new PCI-E setup by Christmas.
Click to expand...


pci -e? so far its got nothing on agp ...even slower half the time..so why change?
now anyway..the technology needs some work...
 
Mike Ryna said:
(unless you believe those stupid "beta" benchmarks that that idiot posted,,,I'll go with Gabe Newell thx!)
Click to expand...

Hmmmmmmmm.........no name calling. It works both ways right?



Mike Ryna said:
In most other tests except a few farcry ones the x800 pro easily defeats the 6800gt
Click to expand...

You can be proven wrong here. If it did beat it in some benchmarks, it wasn't by much. Oh geez, sorry, I sound like the ATI people. It works both ways, right?

Mike Ryna said:
ATI will be the best in Half Life 2
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Game not out yet. Not even a benchmark utility for it. So, you really don't know for sure. It works both ways, right?

Yes, the X800Pro is a very good card though. No argument in that.
 
btw im sorry for that stupid forum name I am such an idiot I was wicked tired when I signed up about a week ago and wrote my actual name...lol but it had a typo! you can call me silentdeath...but you might think thats a stupid name...but ive used it for 7 years so leave me alone

to defend my points...

You won't see a game licensed on the Doom 3 engine before Quake 4 because the engine was shipped off to raven as soon as possible and Quake 4 is being worked on as we speak. What other companies have licensed the engine for an FPS game yet? Like I said, by the time Quake 4 comes out it will require MORE than Doom 3 and better hardware will be available. I think my point about the 4 player multiplayer is valid. You think iD wouldn't want 16 or 24 player multiplayer if it was possible at this stage? Of course they would! That would be a perfect "look at what our engine can do now drool until Quake 4" demo. What do you run original Half Life in now? Highest settings? Thought so.

To buy any video card, be it something that doesn't officially meet the minimum requirements for the highest setting of "Ultra" quality, for a SINGLE player game is rediculous. How was that $550 (assuming you can get the high end cards for $500...which you can't) 20-25 hour game? Was it worth it? I hope you will ask yourself these questions after you complete Doom 3 and are sitting twiddling your thumbs until Half Life 2 comes along and offers ENDLESS gameplay. Unless you are sitting with a geForce 4 or worse there is no reason to upgrade this generation unless it doesn't even put a dent in your pocket at all. I'd say wait until the 512mb cards come around this fall->winter and pick them up for 72fps in Half Life mods. Certainly you will be happy for yourself with that 512mb come Quake 4 time when you can run Ultra flawlessly.

At least this is just my perspective, as it is many gamers, because multiplayer is where I think my money should be spent.

Unless you upgrade all of the time and money is no object there is no reason NOT to wait. Multiplayer is where all games are headed and the immersiveness of Doom 3 is great but aren't you gonna want better performance during your 10,000 hours in CS:S, DoD:S, CS2, TF2 (the list goes on...) rather than your 40 hours in Doom 3.


But BACK to the point I've seen plenty of reviews and benchmarks of the x800 pro beating the gt and even the ultra at some points. THG comes to mind and many others. I am not gonna go back and read what I have already read just to prove it to you and link it but at the VERY LEAST the x800 pro is a viable card and deserves no decrease in price from the MSRP of $400. If you can't aggree to that than you are blinding yourself to the glory that is Doom 3. While I can't blame you for it because that gem is just around the corner, think about the time you will put into that game vs. others and if its x800 vs. GT right now I'd choose the pro.

As for the Half Life 2 benchmarks we can only wait and see but from what is available now it looks like ATI will come out on top. We can go on and on about that though so if you want to go get a 6800 for HL2 I can't really blame you because they are still great cards.
 
I still think they should and I dont care I would take a 6800 over a x800 pro and a 6800 gt over it too.
 
Mike Ryna said:
But BACK to the point I've seen plenty of reviews and benchmarks of the x800 pro beating the gt and even the ultra at some points. THG comes to mind and many others. I am not gonna go back and read what I have already read just to prove it to you and link it but at the VERY LEAST the x800 pro is a viable card and deserves no decrease in price from the MSRP of $400. If you can't aggree to that than you are blinding yourself to the glory that is Doom 3. While I can't blame you for it because that gem is just around the corner, think about the time you will put into that game vs. others and if its x800 vs. GT right now I'd choose the pro.
Click to expand...

Provide some links to the reviews that are showing this and i'll point out some things to you. I have nearly every 6800 review that has been posted and i can tell you right now, the X800Pro cannot stand toe to toe with the 6800GT. The X800Pro performs well in certain games like UT2004 and Painkiller and a few others when AF is enabled because of being highly optimized for AF.

The 6800's dont have any extensive optimizations. The 6800's can run full Trilinear without hardly any major performance hit. The X800's can't run full Triliner at all. They can only run Trilinear mixed with a lower quality Brilinear.

Mike RynaAs for the Half Life 2 benchmarks we can only wait and see but from what is available now it looks like ATI will come out on top. We can go on and on about that though so if you want to go get a 6800 for HL2 I can't really blame you because they are still great cards.
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And exactly what is available now? If your talking about the leaked beta from last year, the 6800's are outperforming the X800's without AF and with AF at 1600x1200 the PE has about a 5 fps lead on the 6800u.

nVidia hasn't optimized their 6800's much yet and they are suppost to release new optimizations in the 62.xx series drivers. This could give a big D3D performance boost.

The 6800's run nearly as fast as the X800's in full Trilinear lol. The X800's take a major hit in performance with Tri and AF ops off. ATI has just done alot more D3D optimizations in their drivers and thats what enables them to keep up with the 6800's and perform better with AF enabled.

I think i'll stick with the card that can run as fast as its counterpart without the use of optimizations. That just means it will be even faster when alot of good optimizations have been added into the drivers.
 
Mike Ryna said:
But BACK to the point I've seen plenty of reviews and benchmarks of the x800 pro beating the gt and even the ultra at some points. THG comes to mind and many others. I am not gonna go back and read what I have already read just to prove it to you and link it but at the VERY LEAST the x800 pro is a viable card and deserves no decrease in price from the MSRP of $400. If you can't aggree to that than you are blinding yourself to the glory that is Doom 3. While I can't blame you for it because that gem is just around the corner, think about the time you will put into that game vs. others and if its x800 vs. GT right now I'd choose the pro.

As for the Half Life 2 benchmarks we can only wait and see but from what is available now it looks like ATI will come out on top. We can go on and on about that though so if you want to go get a 6800 for HL2 I can't really blame you because they are still great cards.
Click to expand...

Mike...Tom is not known for being especially good at benchmarking vid cards...so you'd be better off not using that to back up your posts...

I don't know what you think you've read, probably old reviews with old drivers, or biased reviews with the GTs optimizations disabled, but the fact is the GT is hands down the faster card. This has been discussed to death in about a dozen threads on this forum already and beleive me, the GT kicks the crap out of the X800Pro.

As for Half-Life 2, the only reason that ever existed for us to believe that ATi would be faster in HL2 was some benchmarks released by Gabe Newell last year on the old alpha code. That same exact code (dated the same week) got stolen and was later benchmarked by ixbit...who found the Ultra keeping up with and sometimes beating the XTPE at every resolution and iq setting...and the GT soundly beat the Pro...

I'm not saying those benchmarks are valid, but I will state, as I have before, that they show that the 6800 series is not going to be blown out in Half-Life 2.

The Pro is a good card man, but seriously, the GT is faster...and that's just at stock speeds, I clocked my straight to Ultra speeds the second I got and I've never looked back...and just about everyone else that has one has gotten AT LEAST Ultra speeds out of it...
 
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