What about the Eizo S2433?

H

Homing Beacon

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Hi everyone,

I guess most of you have heard about the Eizo Foris FX2431, it's a pretty good TFT.
But it's also pretty expensive. So I had a look at the Eizo FlexScan S2433, which looks very similar to the Foris, lacking only some Inputs and Videomodes (24, 25, 50 Hz), but it's almost 200 euros cheaper.

But I can hardly find (user-)reviews of this display, so I'm wondering if anyone in this forum is using the S2433? I'm especially interested in how big the input lag is. The Foris only has 2 Frames, which is quite good for a PVA panel.
 
The Eizos are pro-monitors, although on this forum I think the NEC pro (or prosumer) models get a lot more attention because they use IPS panels instead of PVA.
 
Aren't you able to return stuff in your country??

Just buy one and see how you like it. I strongly doubt the input-lag is more than ~30ms.
 
Jonte said:
Aren't you able to return stuff in your country??
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I am, within 14 days, but dealers are allowed to charge a fee for a return.

I read the review about the Foris, but I'm wondering if the S2433W is as good as the Foris (except for lacking some inputs and modes). At least the panel has a smaller gamut (96% vs. 92% AdobeRGB)
 
Many people waiting for the Prad review of this monitor. Prad.de is one of the most reliable internet site, but I think is too much «eizo friendly» site - in contrast with hardforum users who is more “nec friendly” types. Having a Samsung PVA panel from 2007 (Samsung 215T) I am very satisfy with this technology and I am searching for a non wide gamut PVA panel. Unfortunately eizo s2431 (a high quality standard gamut monitor) is currently very expensive in Greece (900 Euros) and the EV2333 is 16/9 -not very practical for office use (and I suspected, a panel of lesser quality in spite of eizo sophisticate electronics). Unfortunately all Samsung high quality monitors (245T, 275T) are wide gamut also. So, it is important to know about the homogeneity of this wide gamut monitor, the factory colors and if it has a decent SRGB mode.
The fact that this review is pending from last December gave rise to many thoughts: Probably there is a lot of monitor waiting for review in Prad, but I am thinking the possibility of detecting some problems in the review monitor and, as an “eizo friendly” site, they have now some “afterthoughts”. But I don’t want to be so suspicious and to misjudge the people in Prad, who in general are well-qualified and trustworhty professionals.
 
kokkin9 said:
Many people waiting for the Prad review of this monitor. Prad.de is one of the most reliable internet site, but I think is too much «eizo friendly» site - in contrast with hardforum users who is more “nec friendly” types. Having a Samsung PVA panel from 2007 (Samsung 215T) I am very satisfy with this technology and I am searching for a non wide gamut PVA panel. Unfortunately eizo s2431 (a high quality standard gamut monitor) is currently very expensive in Greece (900 Euros) and the EV2333 is 16/9 -not very practical for office use (and I suspected, a panel of lesser quality in spite of eizo sophisticate electronics). Unfortunately all Samsung high quality monitors (245T, 275T) are wide gamut also. So, it is important to know about the homogeneity of this wide gamut monitor, the factory colors and if it has a decent SRGB mode.
The fact that this review is pending from last December gave rise to many thoughts: Probably there is a lot of monitor waiting for review in Prad, but I am thinking the possibility of detecting some problems in the review monitor and, as an “eizo friendly” site, they have now some “afterthoughts”. But I don’t want to be so suspicious and to misjudge the people in Prad, who in general are well-qualified and trustworhty professionals.
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You are right. Prad reviews are too "Eizo friendly".

I wouldn't say Prad.de is very reliable. They make a lot of mistakes.

I would say Prad.de is very useful. Despite some critical omissions, they present their tests quite openly so that one can make his own conclusion based on the information presented and skip their final "verdict".
 
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kokkin9 said:
Probably there is a lot of monitor waiting for review in Prad, but I am thinking the possibility of detecting some problems in the review monitor and, as an “eizo friendly” site, they have now some “afterthoughts”. .
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I don't think so... Take the review of the Dell U2410, it was never released because the editor was "unable to deliver". It is now reviewed, again, by another editor. I don't think any editor is working full-time for prad, so that is the reason for the delays.
 
Yeah, attitude toward NEC and EIZO will be partly based on price. I don't quite understand how PRAD is supposed to be "EIZO friendly", nor what they might to do change that.

The EIZO EV2333W caught my eye though. It is sRGB gamut with factory calibration, and in the review it measured 7000:1 contrast on account of its new c-PVA panel.

kokkin9 said:
...and I suspected, a panel of lesser quality in spite of eizo sophisticate electronics...
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May I ask, on what grounds? uniformity? gamma gradation?
 
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Unfortunately the EV2333W is 16:9, the S2433W is 16:10, which I prefer.

To get back to my original question: Here is really no one who uses the S2433W? :(
 
Well, it is difficult to prove something that is “in the air”. It is the way Prad’s people express when they test an Eizo monitor. Nobody says that Eizo’s monitors are not high quality: this has not to do so much with the test but with the language they used to describe their findings. I have read every Prad test for the last three-four years. They use different language in describing a non eizo screen in comparison with an eizo screen. Minor flaws in eizo’s monitors is minor: minor flaws in other manufacturers monitors is something bigger. This is my impression, maybe I’ m wrong. But sometimes the difference between “good” and “very good” in a monitor review is something that depends on reviewer attitude and good will. In Prad I think they have a lot of good will towards Eizo. Look for example the language they use in testing the NEC 2490WUXI (in spite of the “very good” verdict) or the Samsung 275T (just “good” verdict) and compare it with an eizo test.
When I say that the c-PVA panel is of lesser quality I simply do the evaluation that eizo, Samsung etc. does with their monitors. They put this panel in low budget monitors, usually 16/9, and they hold the expensive (and better quality) ones for their upper segment monitors. Of course c-PVA is still much better than a TN, but, I suspected, not so good as my 3 years old S-PVA panel of Samsung 215T, or the S-PVA panel of the Eizo s2431, the Samsung 245T or the LaCie 324 and probably of the Eizo s2433. But Whoisthisreally you are right: this assertion need to be proved by tests.
 
Now that some of you are saying that Prad editors are somewhat biased in favor of Eizo:
I remember the review of the Eizo Foris, it got a "+" (good) for hardcore gamers, even though it has an input lag of 32 ms. No(!) other Display, not even the 2490WUXi got a good for hc gamers - because of the inputlag. They justified their rating "because the Foris has a very good image quality even in very dark games" and that this compensates for the somewhat high inputlag. But I don't see how even the best image quality can compensate something like the inputlag. A hc gamer dislikes any inputlag and does not care that much about image quality.
 
I don't have the S2433W but read a review of it.
According to German c't 23/2009 the S2433W offers:

Uniformity, adjustable brightness range: 74%, 72-347 cd/m²
negatives mentioned are uneven brightness distribution and a lack of a de-interlacer.

It has one of the best viewing angles of the reviewed panels, only beaten by LG W2420R ~2000€ and HP LP2480zx ~2700€. after the S2433W comes the Dell UltraSharp 2709W (S-PVA) ~950€.

Input lag of around 18ms for black to white, around half of that for white to black.
Power consuption: (off, standby, in use) 0/2/39 Watt

positive: high contrast, brightness sensor. speakers, 2 digital inputs and a power switch.

I am also considering to buy this screen, some user feedback or further reviews are appreciated.
 
kokkin9 said:
This is my impression, maybe I’ m wrong. But sometimes the difference between “good” and “very good” in a monitor review is something that depends on reviewer attitude and good will. In Prad I think they have a lot of good will towards Eizo. Look for example the language they use in testing the NEC 2490WUXI (in spite of the “very good” verdict) ..
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You are not wrong.
You are right.
A couple of examples.
The NEC 3090 test was absolutely embarassing. They said that the unit could not be hardware calibrated!
The test of the NEC 2490. The key feature that makes this monitor unique - A-TW polarizer is not mentioned at all !!!
 
By now Prad openly mentions missing A-TW Polarizers in IPS screens, but deems the effect negligible, in light the Polarizers aren't produced anymore.
I myself hate the low viewing angles of modern TFT's and wish I had bought a 20wmgx² back when it was still in production.
 
Xpuser said:
Input lag of around 18ms for black to white
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That's not the inputlag but the response time :) I read that test, too. For some Displays they noted "one frame latency" or "two frames latency", but not for the S2433. That's strange because it *must* have at least one frame, more likely two frames inputlag because of its PVA panel. PVA panels are very slow and need heavy overdriving.

I'm also wondering if the bad backlight uniformity is true for all S2433 or if c't just received a bad sample of this display.
 
ah my bad, still, the response times should translate to at least 1 likely 2 frames input lag..
I'd guess this panel will be much the same as the Foris, mostly just lacking the multimedia features.
 
A couple of examples.
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I know that you have reservations against us and (probably) against me in person. That is no problem. But I have a problem with "criticism for the sake of criticism". Of course there is always room for improvements. There were a lot since the 3090 review - I assume that the rating would not have changed (we can discuss if the 5 school grades represent a review adequate or if there should be a finer granularity) but there were aspects left out that should have been mentioned - and (my hobbyhorse) the colorimetric procedures have improved much. But we should not draw the curtain over some things that are already achieved. By now we are one of the very few consumer pages that really work colorimetrically correct (apart from publications for the prepress market) - respectively I should better say: Consistent. And we are working hard in this area to offer an even better performance which you will notice in some upcoming tests (this required the development of a custom test suite which I have just completed - and it required a change in the measurement devices regarding screens with WCG-CCFL (we have underestimated that problem) or LED-Backlight; there will be a corresponding article soon that shows what users can do and what can be done by implementation of correction matrixes). This should not leed to self-satisfaction (which is not the intention of this remark) - and it is of course only one aspect (but a very important when it comes to high-end screens). In other areas there may be more place for bigger improvements. The quite complex procedures are especially difficult for new editors which can lead to misunderstandings. This will be improved by the new procedures we are introducing at the moment. The method of testing the input lag is not ideal. I know this. We are trying to get access to a better solution here that doesn't depend on a CRT comparison with photos. I also think that the "evaluation-box" doesn't represent the over the years improved procedures entirely. And we are working on a more consistent approach for the videoprocessing that will be "implemented" during this year. So there is a lot of movement - we are not standing still.

I think it is too simple to reduce us to Eizo fanboys. That especially the last two CGs (which I have tested) got a very positive test was up to the fact that these screens were well suited for their range of application - and yes: I love the color space emulation. NEC seems to introduce the same thing on their new lineup. If it works correct (what I assume) this will be valued to the same extent - no doubt.

Best regards

Denis
 
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The review of the S2433 is now online on prad:
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2010/test-eizo-s2433wh-bk.html (german version)

Image quality is very good (same as Foris), Inputlag is pretty low for a PVA (18 ms - actually this is the first PVA panel I see with such a low inputlag).
The display got some problems with interpolation and some input signals (e.g. interlaced signals are not supported at all), so it only got a "good" rating.

Looks like this is monitor is made for me. Same image quality as the Foris but without all the multimedia features, which I do not need at all.

I think I'll sell my U2410 and get the Eizo.
 
Homing Beacon said:
The review of the S2433 is now online on prad:
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2010/test-eizo-s2433wh-bk.html (german version)

Image quality is very good (same as Foris), Inputlag is pretty low for a PVA (18 ms - actually this is the first PVA panel I see with such a low inputlag).
The display got some problems with interpolation and some input signals (e.g. interlaced signals are not supported at all), so it only got a "good" rating.

Looks like this is monitor is made for me. Same image quality as the Foris but without all the multimedia features, which I do not need at all.

I think I'll sell my U2410 and get the Eizo.
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Have you got the Eizo ?
I'm interested in your opinion from since you owned a U2410, do you liked the upgrade?
 
Image quality is perfect, I really LOVE the Samsung PVA-Panel!

The Dell U2410 has a really aggressive AG coating.
The Eizo S2433 is anti-glare, too, but looks as "clean" as a glare display.

Furthermore black is black even from extreme viewing angles. The U2410 really suffered from white glow.

If you don't mind the small price premium, the Eizo is definitely the better screen :)
 
Homing Beacon said:
Image quality is perfect, I really LOVE the Samsung PVA-Panel!

The Dell U2410 has a really aggressive AG coating.
The Eizo S2433 is anti-glare, too, but looks as "clean" as a glare display.

Furthermore black is black even from extreme viewing angles. The U2410 really suffered from white glow.

If you don't mind the small price premium, the Eizo is definitely the better screen :)
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I'm sure about that, thanks for your reply... :)
 
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