What A Good Registry Cleaner?

D

dangfx

Gawd
Joined
May 2, 2001
Messages
707
Hi all,

I, over the years, have installed and reinstalled many a program. As such, i've decided to look into a registry cleaner program, instead of weeding through it myself.

Does anyone use one of these? which one is the best? most thorough? most options?


thanks peeps!!

:)
 
Stynger said:
jv16.org.
Click to expand...

long gone
(though if you applied yourself youd find it elsewhere)

still freeware RegScrubXP

I use both the above on occasion
but mostly I know use a potentially dangerous regcleaner
Registry Drill which is not an automated tool in the second level
 
... and we use these, why exactly? None of these orphaned keys will load. So, there shouldn't be a problem with them there or a need to get rid of them.
 
puppet said:
... and we use these, why exactly? None of these orphaned keys will load. So, there shouldn't be a problem with them there or a need to get rid of them.
Click to expand...
Ture, but you shouldn't let them build to a point that they cannot be easily managed. If, for example, you let your rig go until you had 50,000 extra keys, all sorts of craziness might happen. But you'd never do that, correct? Well, believe it or not, I see such disrespect for a computer on a fairly frequent basis.

Moral: Keep it clean as you go, and you won't have 50,000 extra keys for junk that was supposed to already be off of your rig.
 
If your a clean freak mosin, go for it, but you can't manage dead keys .... they're dead. There could be a million of them in the registry, not loading, without effecting OS performance.
.... no craziness can happen.
 
puppet said:
If your a clean freak mosin, go for it, but you can't manage dead keys .... they're dead. There could be a million of them in the registry, not loading, without effecting OS performance.
.... no craziness can happen.
Click to expand...

extremely misleading statement considering the audience
invaild registry keys cause problems all the time
from old hardware to old software, configurations, well everything
maintaing your registry isnt as important as it used to be with W9X
but in here, where everyone is monkeying with their config
its an important aspect of system maintence if your not just reformatting on a regular basis
My oldest install (W2K recently killed by a hot fix compounded by pilot error) was over 4 years old, and that was with just about as many tweaks and freeware trials in and out (not to mention hardware upgrades and recnfigs) as is humanely possible

I would have never got it to that age while maintaining performance without regular registry maintence
 
Ice Czar said:
extremely misleading statement considering the audience
invaild registry keys cause problems all the time
from old hardware to old software, configurations, well everything
maintaing your registry isnt as important as it used to be with W9X
but in here, where everyone is monkeying with their config
its an important aspect of system maintence if your not just reformatting on a regular basis
My oldest install (W2K recently killed by a hot fix compounded by pilot error) was over 4 years old, and that was with just about as many tweaks and freeware trials in and out (not to mention hardware upgrades and recnfigs) as is humanely possible

I would have never got it to that age while maintaining performance without regular registry maintence
Click to expand...
What does the audience have to do with my statement ... it's not untrue or misleading. If hardware is not on a system, drivers for it won't load. Same goes for software.
Is this right or wrong?
Your (4) year old install isn't proof that you have to "clean" the registry ... just that you did.
If the size of the registry got so large as to take up too much system RAM at boot time or you are testing for a clean install, assuming your a SW/device driver developer or some such ... that's something else, but not "typical" of the average user.
Most of us have a hive of what, 18- 35 mbs or so? On systems with 512-1024 mbs of RAM I don't see the problem at boot time.
I'm not tryng to convert anybody, just pointing out that this "registry cleaning" thing is only cosmetic.
The "keys" point to nothing .... whatever it was, wherever it was, it's gone.
 
puppet said:
What does the audience have to do with my statement ... it's not untrue or misleading. If hardware is not on a system, drivers for it won't load. Same goes for software.
Is this right or wrong?
Your (4) year old install isn't proof that you have to "clean" the registry ... just that you did.
If the size of the registry got so large as to take up too much system RAM at boot time or you are testing for a clean install, assuming your a SW/device driver developer or some such ... that's something else, but not "typical" of the average user.
Most of us have a hive of what, 18- 35 mbs or so? On systems with 512-1024 mbs of RAM I don't see the problem at boot time.
I'm not tryng to convert anybody, just pointing out that this "registry cleaning" thing is only cosmetic.
The "keys" point to nothing .... whatever it was, wherever it was, it's gone.
Click to expand...

there are empty keys and then there are invaild keys
when you remove hardware or software,
those keys are not properly removed (made empty) more often than not
and over time can cause all sorts of issues, which is why your statement was misleading
its not the "size" of the entires but how the OS scans them (and refers to them on an ongoing basis as aps are started)

Do I really need to fix registry problems?
Some reasons why you may find that you need to fix registry issues include:
you frequently install or uninstall programs
you delete software that was never really fully "uninstalled"
you have embedded Spyware or third party programs that revive themselves with each boot
you have gone through a hardware install/uninstall
you have unused but undeleted drivers on your system
Click to expand...

Potential Registry Problems
Why does registry gets corrupted :
The most common ways the Registry gets corrupted are

Applications and drivers are added to the system
Hardware changes from settings or failure
Frequent installation and uninstallation of programs
Users make changes to the Registry


Above reasons could be common reasons. But then you will ask how and why registry gets corrupted. It could be explained in simple terms here. When a program deletes a key in registry it is marked as deleted. So when you regedit you will not see that key. But it is still in registry. That data could remain in registry for many ages. Now this is what causes corruption in registry. When this deleted data is mixed with your regular registry data the registry becomes corrupted. You could remove this data by using " scanreg.exe /opt " in MSDOS mode (only when registry is not corrupt). If registry gets corrupted run scanreg /fix. This will not only make registry smaller but also more efficient. ( download scanreg from here http://allf18.virtualave.net/scanreg.zip ) Scanreg is installed with windows 98. Only windows 95 users have to download this utility.



Program Errors
Adding and removing programs account for the majority of errors found in the Registry. Most users add between six and seven applications, and add or upgrade drivers, applications etc. four or five times per year. During initial installation and setup, the numbers are even greater.

Here are the most common reasons that applications cause problems with the Registry:

Poorly written application (bugs) - There are no applications without bugs or errors. In the best case, the errors that are there are minor, esoteric problems that you may never see, which were left alone because of time and money constraints. To a programmer, a problem may be minor, but it becomes a major problem to you if it crashes your system.

Driver incompatibility - The open architecture of the PC world creates significant risk because any type of eclectic combination of parts and pieces is possible. Testing all combinations and ensuring the compatibility of all the devices is impossible. The other challenge arises when drivers for Windows 95 are used for Windows NT.

Incorrect entries added to the Registry by the application during installation--During installation, most applications use a file called SETUP.INF for detailed information about what disks are required, which directories should be created, where to copy files, and Registry entries that need to be made to make the application work correctly. If there is a mistake in the SETUP.INF file, the change will still be made, and there may be serious problems.

Incorrect associations set between applications and file types by an application--When an application is installed, default document types are recorded in the Registry. A user can then double-click to start the application and load the document. Many times, other applications use the same extension. For example, the last graphics program loaded will be the one launched when a TIF graphic is activated based on the settings in the Registry. Occasionally, completely different, non-compatible applications will use the same extensions on their document files, and the document-loading shortcut won't work.

Errors created during the uninstall process--Whether you remove applications through Add/Remove programs in the Control Panel, through a proprietary uninstall feature of the application, or through a third-party utility, you run a risk of damaging the Registry. Besides taking out the program, auxiliary, and data files, an uninstall routine may attempt to remove Registry entries as well. It may inadvertently remove required entries for other applications because it is nearly impossible for the system to know all the entries accessed by an application.

Errors in fonts--When the font ID in the Registry gets corrupted, you will see a different font than the one listed in the application. It can be annoying and may require you to remove some or all of your fonts and replace them. It mostly happens when user installs and removes fonts frequently. It happened twice in my case because I remove some fonts which I never used to free some space only realising later what mess has been done.


Unfortunately, you may find out about these problems too late, after you have lost time, money, and/or data. Also, you are almost powerless to truly solve them, because someone else wrote the program, and most people do not have the expertise required to change the application itself. The best you can do as an administrator is to repair the Registry and look for an update or replacement.

System Problems
If the computer system itself has a problem, the Registry can become corrupted. Usually, these errors can be prevented with proper system care and management.

Virus - Viruses are an insidious attempt to affect our systems by changing the nature of files and in whole corrupting the registry.
Electrical surges, spikes, or brownouts - Nearly all power problems can be easily avoided with good surge protectors and UPS devices (uninterruptible power supplies).

Disk problems--Most of the time you will replace hard disks because of capacity limitations far sooner than you would because of hardware failure. If the whole hard drive fails, of course, you will have to restore your Registry from a backup. The other concern is the failure of individual sectors or clusters on the drive. Although it is highly unlikely with today's systems, a fault in the surface of the drive media may make parts of the disk unreadable, including those where the Registry files are located. Regular maintenance is critical, and a good backup is vital.



Manual Changes Made to Registry
When people manually edit the Registry, they are prone to make errors because of the complexity of the data, and the errors may be significant enough to cause the system to quit working. It is very unfortunate that Microsoft has chosen to deal with the Registry and Registry editing as a "black art," leaving many people in the dark as to the real uses of all the settings in the systems.
Microsoft's refusal to adequately, and publicly, supply information about the correct settings is extremely frustrating. Certainly, more damage has and will be done because of lack of knowledge than because of too much information. Most of the actual changes that are made by users innocently also cause havoc on this fragile registry.
Click to expand...

which is why I said your statement is misleading, if the key is properly emptied (cleaned) which is what a registry cleaner does, because of the flawed implementation of uninstall programs for software, hardware, 3rd party tweaks or simple user tweaks, there would be no problem
but that is rarely the case, which is why especially in here, where we are all power users or aspire to be, and constantly tweak our systems, trial software and compulsively upgrade
a registry cleaner is a must, if you want to maintain an OS over a long period of time at peak efficency (but as mentioned, just starting over, or ghosting back an image of your OS from shortly after a fresh install, is also common)
 
puppet said:
If hardware is not on a system, drivers for it won't load. Same goes for software.
Click to expand...

In many cases they most certainly will load, even if the hardware is not there. The more crap that is in the registry, the more "chances" for error and corruption you have. If you take a look around, you will find plenty of software meant to completely remove drivers and registry entries for them. The reason they are created is the same reason the orginial poster wants to use a reg cleaner. Software uninstalls are rarely perfect.
 
puppet said:
... and we use these, why exactly? None of these orphaned keys will load. So, there shouldn't be a problem with them there or a need to get rid of them.
Click to expand...
This line of thinking is why many people reformat several times a year. :rolleyes:

Me? I prefer to run the same install the life of the machine whenever possible. I have a Win98 install on an old 300mhz machine that has been there since it was upgraded from Win95 back in November of 1997. I assure you that the registry is cleaned frequently, and that is a primary reason that Win98 is stable on the rig after all these years.
 
Let me pass along a couple of things that might help those with the "need" to play with the registry.
http://home.t-online.de/home/lars.hederer/erunt/erunt.txt

... and for those programs that don't completely uninstall ... try this out.
http://www.geocities.com/ggmartau/tu.html


djnes ... your claim of drivers loading without the specific hardware being present is obsurd. You do realize that there is an assload of legacy drivers installed by a windows OS out of the box. These don't give you problems ... and I sure as hell know you don't kill 'em all either.
mosin ... I don't install several times a year ... and I don't use a regcleaner either. Go figure.
Ice Czar ... a lot of those posted reasons are gonna be the result of user error. Viruses.
Driver incompatibility. Programs that don't go with the OS version your using. Manual changes to the registry. ... a little research before leaping will take care of most of this sort of stuff.
As for a buggy piece of software, sure. Those are the types of things that need to be completely removed. I think one of the two suggestions above will be a better way of dealing with that sort of situation though.
 
well personally I have an ap that backs up my registry at every boot
(I keep a copy of the last 30 boots)
(unfortunately I got it when it was a reasonably priced beta,
which is no longer the case O&O BlueCon

but thanx for the link to Total Uninstall I'll give it a spin

regarding legacy drivers however, especially video card drivers
a quick visit to the Video Card forum will show you that djines assertion is by no means absurd :p

and considering the prevalence of adware, spyware, hijackware
and the way they are constantly morphing, its hard for any single program or suite of programs to remove all the entries, so a registry cleaner can be a valuable backup to catch residuals after the primary active keys have been removed
and most users lack the means and knowledge to block those
(and occassionally even if they do get caught out if they insist on IE and WSH)

In closing the majority of entries I uncover when I run my registry cleaner are invalid entries referencing files and folders, the occassional start menu entry, now and then an improper dll reference, there is alot more buggy software out there than I think your crediting
and I think Ive trial a healthy portion of it :p

just did a scan (last one 3 days ago)
87 Invalid Registry Entries referenced to folders and files (mostly non-existing files Ive moved or deleted)
1 Invalid uninstall string
 
My only point is that an invalid registry entry isn't always "bad". Probably 99% aren't.
Needing to remove them and wanting to remove them aren't the same thing.

As far as drivers loading without the specific hardware being installed .... this claim is gonna have to backed up with some real facts/examples. When Windows BOOTS it scans for installed hardware and loads the appropriate drivers.
... no hardware present, no drivers installed. This is common sense.

The boot process
Windows 9x
Windows Me, 98 and 95 are essentially the same thing – a graphical Operating System that sits on top of the same MS-DOS architecture we’ve had since the PC first appeared. When the BIOS chip executes the DOS boot code, the first files to be loaded are IO.SYS and MSDOS.SYS. Without these two files, your PC is dead in the water and DOS or Windows 9x will not load.

Next up in the Windows 9x boot process is to load and parse the CONFIG.SYS file. In the days of pure DOS, this text file is where device drivers would have been loaded from for hardware such as CD-ROM drives and a mouse. With the advent of Windows 95, the CONFIG.SYS file became largely redundant since drivers are loaded by Windows itself, but it remains for compatibility reasons.

Once CONFIG.SYS has been parsed, DOS will look for the AUTOEXEC.BAT file. Again, this is a legacy from pure DOS days, when any TSR (Terminate and Stay Resident) programs like mouse drivers would also be loaded. As with CONFIG.SYS, it remains under Windows 9x for backwards compatibility.

Finally, Windows begins to load properly. This begins when the DOS core executes the WIN command – essentially a DOS command which begins the Windows boot sequence. The first evidence you see of Windows is the familiar boot logo. Windows begins to load properly with the next program, WIN386.EXE. This is the real core of the Windows kernel, and the first thing it does is to switch the processor to protected mode in order to make use of the full amount of system memory rather than the base 640K used by DOS.

Device drivers
At this point, Windows 9x is well and truly established in memory as the current OS. Once the CPU is running in protected mode, it’s safe for Windows to begin to load the system device drivers. This covers everything from drivers for basic hardware components such as the hard drive controllers, USB hubs and devices such as the mouse.

Next, Windows parses and loads the active fonts. If you have corrupted fonts, this is where the boot process can be slowed down. Once the system fonts are loaded, Windows begins to load and execute the actual GUI, the graphical component of the OS. The penultimate stage of the boot process for Windows 9x happens now, when the kernel loads and initialises the display driver. It’s at this point that the graphics card is properly initialised, and the GUI kicks into life.

Finally, Windows initialises and executes the code found in the remaining device drivers, waking the hardware up properly. The fonts which loaded previously are also initialised, and unless you have multiple user accounts, the Desktop springs into life, completing the core boot process.

The boot log
As part of the normal boot process, Windows 9x records information as it goes to a text file on disk, known as the Boot Log. This file is called BOOTLOG.TXT, and lives in the root directory of the drive Windows is set to boot from. A cursory glance through the boot log can reveal some potentially startling facts – certain device drivers and other assorted components are listed as having failed to load or initialise. Amazingly, this is perfectly normal and will occur even on a freshly installed copy of Windows 9x with no other third-party applications installed.

Some entries in particular show up regularly with every Windows 9x installation, regardless of the hardware. For instance, items such as EBIOS, NDIS2SUP.VXD and VSERVER.VXD are regular candidates for failure. None of them represent a problem, and simply confirm the fact that Windows 9x has a habit of trying to load and initialise a rather large set of static device drivers whether the hardware actually requires them or not. Some, such as VSHARE will attempt to load more than once, and a quick skim through the boot log will usually reveal that the first instance loaded correctly while the second failed.

The boot process,
Windows XP
With Windows 2000 and XP, the process is different. First, the BIOS executes the Master Boot Record on the boot device, which in turn loads and executes the NTLDR code – effectively, this is the bootstrap for Windows XP.

NTLDR first initialises memory and allows full memory addressing, then initialises and starts the filesystem on the primary boot drive. Next, NTLDR will load and parse BOOT.INI, a file that contains among other things a list of all OSes found on disk and instructions on how to execute them. This is the boot menu which NT, 2000 and XP display so that they can co-exist with older versions of the OS, enabling you to boot into either XP or 9x.

Once XP is selected from the boot menu, NTDETECT.COM collects information about the installed hardware. NTDETECT then reads the info from BOOT.INI showing where the boot partition is. Next, NTLDR reads the Registry, selects the active hardware profile and control set, then loads the necessary device drivers. Finally, NTOSKRNL.EXE kicks in, the actual core of the OS itself. This starts the WINLOGON.EXE process, which in turn starts up LSASS.EXE, the Local Security Administration module. This displays either the Welcome screen or the older Windows 2000 style login dialog. The Windows XP boot process is finished, and the Desktop loads when a user enters a name and password.
Frank Charlton
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DriverCleaner

video driver wars and incompatibilities with residual entries have been going on forever :p

ATI explicitly suggests the complete removal of any other display drivers from the system,
as a matter of fact, they recommend the installation of the Rage128 Fury on a fresh install of the Operating System.
Click to expand...

luckly its not that bad any more ;)

Flyingaddict said:
1. Unplug nic card or modem from net or disconnect ( dont be connected to the net... this is important )
2. Remove nvidia/ATI from add/remove programs
3. Reboot into safe mode (F8 during boot up)
4. On reboot into safe mode WinXP SP1/SP2 will auto detect and install drivers. Just let it do its thing. If you can cancel out of the auto install hardware wizard then skip the rest and run Driver Cleaner! If you can NOT cancel out of auto detect wizard then...
5. Navigate to device mgr->display adapters->highlight nVidia/ATI and click uninstall or remove but don't reboot
6. Disable any AntiVirus Software (If you don't disable is than it could give trouble)
7. Run Cab Cleaner (not needed, but recommended)
8. Run Driver Cleaner
9. Empty recycle bin and reboot ( here I put the new card in before booting up again)
10. Install the new drivers
Click to expand...

and it just gets worse when you add in say video capture software or hardware
building an interdependent web of registry entries and dlls

DLL HELL
 
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