WFI Adaptors: USB vs PCIe

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
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Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
Let's hear it! lol

My old gaming rig is making bzz bzzz noises in audio. I traced it back to my ASUS PCIe 2.5 Wireless card. Disable it in devices, and the problem goes away. A few people on different forums have had this same problem using Windows 10.

So, I need to replace it. I'm going to build a new gaming rig soon, so I want something i can swap into that system.

Overhead latency is a concern.

I'd like to have a combination BT5.0/Wifi adapter in either PCIe or USB 3.0. What connection is going to be the cleanest and provide the best general performance. I'll be using it for gaming also.

I always thought a card directly in the MB slot was going to be the fastest, but now I'm seeing that may not be the case (Since USB ports can connect right to the MBalso (disregarding case front/side panel connectors).

Also, any suggestions of brand or adapters would be appreciated. I'm seeing what appears to be a lot of Chinese adapters like "Mpow" and other seemingly nameless knock offs. I've just had too many bad experiences with that low quality crap. I don't want to POS with shit caps and chips. I know some of it is decent, and I won a digital Chinese amp that is actually quite good. I just don't want to take any chances with my internet connection.

So, let's hear it! :)
 

Grebuloner

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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
702
I'm not going to post related stuff in both of your threads, so I'll cover both things here.

What's your audio setup?

What's your Wifi router and how far/number of rooms away is it?

I've run a couple of these cards myself and never had any buzzing audio issues, even with audio cables touching the antennae. I was using analog 3.5mm->RCA into 1970s stereo equipment (that definitely buzzes from my phone). If you've got some kind of modern audio setup (which to me means anything remotely digital), maybe you could try changing the wifi channel/frequency at the router to reduce possible interference?

I tossed my cards when I discovered that they are absolute garbage running under Win 10, no matter which driver set I loaded. Couldn't network stream a low def show at all, or even audio, whereas in Win 7 they took high bitrate BD rips like a champ.

I replaced mine with now discontinued units (TP Link Archer t9e, Asus PCE-AC88). Both were expensive and both work very well, though I don't do online gaming on those machines so I can't comment on their latency aspects.

Check out the Asus PCE-AX58BT. Not many AX units on the market, and all of them are just some adaptation of the Intel AX200 card, but why buy the old standard if you're going to use this for awhile?

Also of note, look at the motherboard of your next system. It's becoming the rage, even when arguably unnecessary, to include on-board Wifi on upper mid to high-end motherboards, now. That same Intel AX200 chipset (BT5 included) is on quite a lot of boards these days, even AMD's.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
I'm not going to post related stuff in both of your threads, so I'll cover both things here.

What's your audio setup?

What's your Wifi router and how far/number of rooms away is it?

I've run a couple of these cards myself and never had any buzzing audio issues, even with audio cables touching the antennae. I was using analog 3.5mm->RCA into 1970s stereo equipment (that definitely buzzes from my phone). If you've got some kind of modern audio setup (which to me means anything remotely digital), maybe you could try changing the wifi channel/frequency at the router to reduce possible interference?

I tossed my cards when I discovered that they are absolute garbage running under Win 10, no matter which driver set I loaded. Couldn't network stream a low def show at all, or even audio, whereas in Win 7 they took high bitrate BD rips like a champ.

I replaced mine with now discontinued units (TP Link Archer t9e, Asus PCE-AC88). Both were expensive and both work very well, though I don't do online gaming on those machines so I can't comment on their latency aspects.

Check out the Asus PCE-AX58BT. Not many AX units on the market, and all of them are just some adaptation of the Intel AX200 card, but why buy the old standard if you're going to use this for awhile?

Also of note, look at the motherboard of your next system. It's becoming the rage, even when arguably unnecessary, to include on-board Wifi on upper mid to high-end motherboards, now. That same Intel AX200 chipset (BT5 included) is on quite a lot of boards these days, even AMD's.

It's the ASUS wifi card. Others have reported it too. Disable it in devices, problem solved. It's a driver conflict in Win 10 and MS isn't about to spend time fixing it. My Router/Modem is a Motorola 7315 https://motorolanetwork.com/catalog/product/view/id/1048/s/mg7315/category/111/

It's sitting about 16 feet from me. For me, the choice is whether or not to buy a card or a USB wifi adapter. Right now I am running an old eGenious USB 2.0 external wifi router with an antennae. https://www.amazon.com/EnGenius-Network-EUB9603H-Adapter-150Mbps/dp/B003E8J998/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=engenius+wireless+adapter&qid=1577857761&sr=8-20 I just tested it here: https://www.megapath.com/speedtestplus/
44Mbps download
My max upload speed
Latency 20ms
Jitter 5ms

With ASUS card, I get my full download bandwidth of 60Mbps, but I don't need that much to play games.

That was a 500 mile line test, from northern CA to Los Angeles The little adapter is suppose to have a power splitter but I can't find it so I have it running on one USB plug only. I didn't even disable the ASUS card. I'm just not using it. No popping, bzzt, bzzzt, just perfect now.

So again, just wondering is there are any pros and cons to using USB Wifi adaptors vs PCIe?
 

Grebuloner

Gawd
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Messages
702
Okay, now that I know the hardware you're working with, here is my answer on PCIe vs. USB: It doesn't matter. Generally speaking, the higher-end and most standards-current your adapter is, with antennas that you can put somewhere else (like on top of the case or generally away from metal things), the better it's going to do. Multiple antennas are much better than a single one. That router isn't exactly fancy-pants by today's standards (never was), doesn't even have 5GHz bands for an N, but multiple antennas will help with a consistent signal.

The only con I can think of for a USB solution is the power requirements. You're on an X58 system. Does it have USB3? The ones I have (EX58-UD4P and P6T Deluxe) were first gen and don't. If you don't have USB3, adequately powering the good USB adapters might prove a problem (not an issue with PCIe).

If you're only 16 feet away, why aren't you running an ethernet cable? It would be much better overall than wireless.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
Okay, now that I know the hardware you're working with, here is my answer on PCIe vs. USB: It doesn't matter. Generally speaking, the higher-end and most standards-current your adapter is, with antennas that you can put somewhere else (like on top of the case or generally away from metal things), the better it's going to do. Multiple antennas are much better than a single one. That router isn't exactly fancy-pants by today's standards (never was), doesn't even have 5GHz bands for an N, but multiple antennas will help with a consistent signal.

The only con I can think of for a USB solution is the power requirements. You're on an X58 system. Does it have USB3? The ones I have (EX58-UD4P and P6T Deluxe) were first gen and don't. If you don't have USB3, adequately powering the good USB adapters might prove a problem (not an issue with PCIe).

If you're only 16 feet away, why aren't you running an ethernet cable? It would be much better overall than wireless.
Thanks for that. I guess the question is: Does USB have more overhaed or create more jitter or other problems that a PCI card won't have? You've said it doesn't matter, and my own simple testing results in the same conclusion. No, my x58 system doesn't have USB 3, but I can use a USB 2 Y cable for increased power, right? So the technology for a wifi dongle is now on par with internally connected PCIe adapters?

I can't plug into cable because of my situation currently (taking care of my mother and I have to be in the front room.) My entire system is on a rolling table. In th day time, I work on my laptop. At night, after I put her to bed, I roll out my gaming rig for a couple of hours.

I see a lot of strange names on amazon selling dongles and other more simple stuff, like PCI adapter. Do you have any recommendations for these types of hardware that are quality? I'd like to get a combo wifi/BT5.0 dongle if possible.

Yeah, that ASUS wifi adapter was no frills. I just wanted a solid wifi connection. When I bought it back in 2012, it was a decent option.

The story behind the little eGenius USB 2 2.4 dongle was that I needed a second adapter because I worked in the morning at a coffee shop on the stock market. Fortunately, the coffee shop I did work at was in-between two other food p;laces, both in the city and having really good connections. So I bridged my laptop internal adapter with the egenius for backup and more speed. Again, a life change forced me to be there instead of at home on my cable connection. But it was actually better because I had two connection giving me over 100Mbps each. It was better redundancy than I had even on my home connection. I was really impressed with the eGenius's range too. But, never gave it a second thought for anything more than a good connection. I never used it for gaming.

I used it last night for gaming. lol. I had no problems with it. Maybe it's good enough?

Thanks for helping.
 

Grebuloner

Gawd
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Jul 31, 2009
Messages
702
"On par" is a bit of a tricky answer. Typically the PCIe versions come first due to the PCB size requirements for the chips and power (it's going to be awhile before Wifi 6/ax comes to USB), and then as the tech matures it gets shrunk down into something USB stick sized. The most powerful (ie longest range/best signal) adapters will always be internal because of the power requirement, but you don't need something that powerful for a short distance.

Lots of no name brands everywhere that just take commodity chips or unbranded OEM sticks/cards and slap their name on it to make a buck. You want to look at the established do-it-themselves brands: Asus, TP Link, DLink. If you really want it to last, spring for that Asus PCE-AX58BT unit, it's not a bad price, current gen, includes Bluetooth, and underlying it is an Intel chipset with Intel driver support. Someday you'll want to upgrade that modem/router, too. Might as well only buy the adapter once, right?

I used it last night for gaming. lol. I had no problems with it. Maybe it's good enough?
This is the other side of things. You have an adapter that while isn't the fastest option is working for you. You can always continue to use it until you get the shiny new system and decide from there. Or upgrade your card.
 

rhansen5_99

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Nov 12, 2001
Messages
2,056
I got one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D6G7X9L?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

and paired it with an Intel 9260, but I would get an ax200 card now.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Network-AX200-NGWG-NV-AX2002230-Retail/dp/B07ZVYKRW9/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=ax200&qid=1577937811&sprefix=ax2&sr=8-3
Walk away price is sub $40

Fyi you new system might have the pcie slot already or even a built in card depending on the route you take.

On a side note the buzzing really sounds like a grounding issue in my book.
 
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DWD1961

Limp Gawd
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"On par" is a bit of a tricky answer. Typically the PCIe versions come first due to the PCB size requirements for the chips and power (it's going to be awhile before Wifi 6/ax comes to USB), and then as the tech matures it gets shrunk down into something USB stick sized. The most powerful (ie longest range/best signal) adapters will always be internal because of the power requirement, but you don't need something that powerful for a short distance.

Lots of no name brands everywhere that just take commodity chips or unbranded OEM sticks/cards and slap their name on it to make a buck. You want to look at the established do-it-themselves brands: Asus, TP Link, DLink. If you really want it to last, spring for that Asus PCE-AX58BT unit, it's not a bad price, current gen, includes Bluetooth, and underlying it is an Intel chipset with Intel driver support. Someday you'll want to upgrade that modem/router, too. Might as well only buy the adapter once, right?



This is the other side of things. You have an adapter that while isn't the fastest option is working for you. You can always continue to use it until you get the shiny new system and decide from there. Or upgrade your card.
Agreed. I just bought the modem/router. It doesn't have the QoS options I would like, but it's a basic router/modem and it was the cheapest thing I could find that was somewhat a quality brand. That ASUS card you listed is far too out there for me. Sure, if I were building the best thing I could, then sure. But it's only 30 bucks cheaper than the entire motherboard I'm thinking about purchasing. that eGenius I have is probably what you called "commodity" chips too.

At 44Mbps, the little adapter I'm using is plenty fast. It's just me on the internet and I'm not making any large downloads. If I need the extra 20Mbps download (My plan is 60Mbps) I can just enable the ASUS card for a bit. I mainly use that rig for playing old online games I have mature accounts with, like EVE, Mortal Online, and MWO. So 44Mpbs is going to be way more than I could ever use.

I remember playing games back in 2001 with a 9Mbps connection--the fastest I could get at that time where I lived (Northern California near the Oregon border). I never bottleneck, and I kept track of bandwidth history and would check after playing. never came close. I guess what I have will be ok for now.

My current plan is 15-75Mbps. I usually average around 45-50 download. Anything else is going to be a waste for me.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
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Messages
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I got one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D6G7X9L?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

and paired it with an Intel 9260, but I would get an ax200 card now.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Network-AX200-NGWG-NV-AX2002230-Retail/dp/B07ZVYKRW9/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=ax200&qid=1577937811&sprefix=ax2&sr=8-3
Walk away price is sub $40

Fyi you new system might have the pcie slot already or even a built in card depending on the route you take.

On a side note the buzzing really sounds like a grounding issue in my book.
Well, I can disable the ASUS wifi card in devices, and the problem goes away. I moved the card to another PCIe slot too, and same deal. What kind of short are you talking about? In the card itself?
 

Nobu

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I got one of these https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07D6G7X9L?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

and paired it with an Intel 9260, but I would get an ax200 card now.

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Network-AX200-NGWG-NV-AX2002230-Retail/dp/B07ZVYKRW9/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=ax200&qid=1577937811&sprefix=ax2&sr=8-3
Walk away price is sub $40

Fyi you new system might have the pcie slot already or even a built in card depending on the route you take.

On a side note the buzzing really sounds like a grounding issue in my book.
+1, I got a sourcingbay adaptor (currently out of stock) and an Intel 7265 M.2 card, and it works great. Note that with these, you'll need to connect the card to a motherboard USB header in order for Bluetooth to work, and there's a jumper or switch to enable different modes for the card.

The asus card is good too (I think it also uses an intel card), and comes with a remote antenna, but my brother said he had some issues with it. Ymmv.

SB Adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013U4401W/
Intel 7265:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013WACBCO/
Asus PCE-AC55BT:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FL6SY5A/

As far as noise in audio, I can't really comment on that. I do know that some internal USB components can cause noise if they aren't shielded properly, internal cables/front port connectors in particular.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
304
+1, I got a sourcingbay adaptor (currently out of stock) and an Intel 7265 M.2 card, and it works great. Note that with these, you'll need to connect the card to a motherboard USB header in order for Bluetooth to work, and there's a jumper or switch to enable different modes for the card.

The asus card is good too (I think it also uses an intel card), and comes with a remote antenna, but my brother said he had some issues with it. Ymmv.

SB Adapter:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013U4401W/
Intel 7265:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013WACBCO/
Asus PCE-AC55BT:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FL6SY5A/

As far as noise in audio, I can't really comment on that. I do know that some internal USB components can cause noise if they aren't shielded properly, internal cables/front port connectors in particular.
You reminded me that I need to unplug the HD Audio Front Case Port, and now also the USB front case ports too. In the past, I never had the front case audio ports connected, although i did have the USB front port cables connected. I now have the HD audio port connected to the front in and out ports on the case--which i don't even use.

I'll disconnect the HD audio front port cable and test it that way.
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
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Messages
304
In another thread, a HO contributor said to poll my cards from the card to the router and see what I got. I polled the little USB 2.0 wifi adapter I am using, and got 1ms 96 out of 100 times, three 3ms, and one 4ms, no packets lost.

Then I polled the ASUS PCIe card and got this:
Capture.PNG


Every time I hear that bzzzzzt sound I get lag between the card and the router. No idea why. It almost seems like some conflict, but using Win 7 I never had this problem. Many people on the internet have said it is an ASUS/Microsoft problem, with most agreeing it i.sw a MS problem more than anything. Of course neither MS nor ASUS are going to spend any resources fixing it. I miss Win 7.
 

cyclone3d

[H]ardForum Junkie
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Messages
13,255
Maybe something to do with power saving?

You can go into the advanced power settings for your computer and try disabling PCI Express -> Link State Power Management.

There might also be a setting for the wifi card drivers that has to do with power saving.

Does the same thing happen if the wifi card is in a different PCIe slot?
 

DWD1961

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
304
In another thread, a HO contributor said to poll my cards from the card to the router and see what I got. I polled the little USB 2.0 wifi adaptor I am using, and got 1ms 96 out of 100 times, three 3ms, and one 4ms, no packets lost.

Then I polled the ASUS PCIe card and got this:
.

Everytime I hear that bzzzzzt sound
Maybe something to do with power saving?

You can go into the advanced power settings for your computer and try disabling PCI Express -> Link State Power Management.

There might also be a setting for the wifi card drivers that has to do with power saving.

Does the same thing happen if the wifi card is in a different PCIe slot?
Yes, I swapped slots and turned power savings off in several places, and everything else I could find on other forums. I'll check the BIOS for that setting again too, to make sure it is off. At this point, I really think it is a Windows 10 problem. I had no problems with this set up running Win 7.
 

cyclone3d

[H]ardForum Junkie
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Messages
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Yeah.. could be a bug in the driver or something in the Windows 7/8/8.1 driver that is not playing nice with Windows 10.
 
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