Weird temps with my watercooling setup

[Tenks]

Hey guys, I just set up my WC from DD and I think my temps are kind of awry. Firstly, on stock, my 2.4C runs idle 39-40C, around 45-47 under load. Right now, I'm overclocked at 265fsb @1.57 volts and i idle 47-49 and 55-60 load! while my case temp remains static at 32C. My WC consists of:

DD TDX block
Black Ice Xtreme II
DD 12v pump
Round res
120mm fan
Clearfex60
12oz of Zerex

I think I might have added a little too much coolant to my distilled water, maybe at a 60:40 ratio, might be a little less

Anyway, my setup goes like this: rez-->pump-->block-->rad-->rez. My rad is connected inside my case with the 120mm fan attached to it blowing thru it out of the case. I doubled checked my TDX block to see if it was tightened down enough as well as for air bubbles and the tubing for kinks or anything like that. Should I drain the system and mix at the 1:20 ratio or reapply AS to the CPU or anything like that? Any help will be appreciated

 

[PsycoGeek]

What type of motherboard do you have? Some report temps higher than they actually are.

The system in my sig sits idle at 41c-42c, load is around 44c-47c. Abit is notorious for reporting temps about 10c higher than they actually are.

Also, the zerex is supposed to be added to water (steam distilled, ozone treated, and .2 or .02 micron filtered prefered), not used by itself. The loop is correct, but a single 120mm fan radiator will yield higher temps than a double sized one will.

 

[Tenks]

My mobo is the Epox 4PDA2+ and no, I mixed the zerex with the distilled water, albeit by a bit too much. I was thinking if that would be the prob for my high temps because this would decrease the efficiency of the water?

Also, what do you mean by a double sized? Are you talking about the rad or the fan?

 

[PsycoGeek]

The radiator. Some take a single fan, others can take two fans side by side...

Single radiator:

Double radiator:

***images were copied from DangerDen website for illustration purposes only.

-edit- You have a double, don't you?

 

[Tenks]

you might have mistaken me when I said BIX II, that's the name of the rad I have, not the dual

 

[MikeP]

Too much Zerex or too much of any coolant will have a negative effect on cooling. You have way, way too much there.

Also no motherboard reports temps correctly. Or even close to correctly. Abits are maybe worse than most but theyre all crap and not to be trusted.

 

[JEEVES/whohasmyname?]

Anyway, my setup goes like this: rez-->pump-->block-->rad-->rez.

Does anyone else not see that his radiator is behind his block. I am hoping this is a typo. You should realy want the radiator before the block, the radiator is what cools the water before it hits the block.

JEEVES

 

[Tenks]

Does anyone else not see that his radiator is behind his block. I am hoping this is a typo. You should realy want the radiator before the block, the radiator is what cools the water before it hits the block.
JEEVES

well, I don't really think there would be much of a diff if it was b4 the block mainly because it IS being cooled by the rad and stored in the res then the cool water being pumped to the block. I guess you are saying that the cooled water will lose its efficiency by the time it reaches the block again? That may be true, but this pump I have pushes 317 GPH so I don't think the water is goin to be idle for a long time. But, I may try your suggestion though

 

[JEEVES/whohasmyname?]

look at anyones setup and you will always see the rad before the blocks. hell in my system i am having to put another rad into the loop to cool the water before my agp. and the res will force the water back to room temps. yes it will cool the proc, but will have a drastic diffrence with it before the block. if you need a better example look at a car, the radiator goes to the block not the res. I have the same radiator as you and have my p4 2.4c under a zalman water block and get 23 idle and 25 load. dont know what my north bridge temps are, but my agp (last in loop) is 32 idle and 39 at HIGH load (i think i have to reseat it, just to damn lazy lately).

JEEVES

 

[Tenks]

jeeves, i'll prolly have to change the order as you said. Also, I've noticed using various temp monitoring programs, that my cpu temp changes erratically. For example, it says 45C for like 20 seconds, then it jumps to 55C for another 20, then 52, then goes back to 45. This happens continuosly and even the bios reports them in the same manner. Could it be that it is telling me the NB temp as well? Btw, my NB is cooled passively, and when I put my finger on it, its pretty damn hot. Should I watercool this as well?

 

[thewhiteguy]

look at anyones setup and you will always see the rad before the blocks.

Oh no, not you again.

the res will force the water back to room temps.

Your misunderstanding of watercooling is severe

if you need a better example look at a car, the radiator goes to the block not the res.

Cars don't have reservoirs

I have the same radiator as you and have my p4 2.4c under a zalman water block and get 23 idle and 25 load. dont know what my north bridge temps are, but my agp (last in loop) is 32 idle and 39 at HIGH load

Your flowrate must be shit if your temps vary more than a couple of degrees even after all your blocks.

 

[Tenks]

ok what I don't get is why would danger den recommend going from pump>block>rad>res>pump as per there instructions if they knew(assuming that is) this wouldn't be ideal? Is there really a diff if I use my current setup or change it around to make the rad b4 the block?

 

[JEEVES/whohasmyname?]

Oh no, not you again.

what the hell does that mean.

Your misunderstanding of watercooling is severe

how you figure, a body of water will have higher temps than moving water that is going through a radiator that is ment for "cooling" water. So logic would say cooler water comes out of radiator and not resivoir (and it realy depends on what res you have as to how quickly the water will warm up). I had a plastic bay res that in res temps were ~5 degrees warmer than that wich came out of the radiator. So why would i have it the other way around?

Cars don't have reservoirs

hmm thats funny cuase i thought i pour my water and coolant INTO A RESEVIOUR. its this big plastic jug (for lack of better words) thats holds a body of water, im sorry i thought that was the resivoir.

Your flowrate must be shit if your temps vary more than a couple of degrees even after all your blocks.

nice that you didnt quote the part where I said that I need to reseat my block. I bet you are a republican too, quote the part that fitts your argument best and ignore the rest.

If you do any research on w/c you will see in almost all cases that the radiator is after the pump before the blocks as that gives the best cooling for the blocks. and please if you disagree with what someones says you do not have to be a smart ass about it. All that does is cause unwanted conflicts. god i hate kids

JEEVES

 

[JEEVES/whohasmyname?]

ok what I don't get is why would danger den recommend going from pump>block>rad>res>pump as per there instructions if they knew(assuming that is) this wouldn't be ideal? Is there really a diff if I use my current setup or change it around to make the rad b4 the block?

that is just my suggestion to purposed problem, you can do what you want. I would suggest reading some reviews on w/c and also check out some other forums besides [H] for some diffrent answers. Dont ever just take one persons word on something, review the subject on your own and come to the decision that you find best.

JEEVES

 

[Tenks]

Hmmm...after readin this thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=779463&page=1&pp=20&highlight=watercooling+temperatures


...I'll stick to my current setup

 

[thewhiteguy]

how you figure, a body of water will have higher temps than moving water that is going through a radiator that is ment for "cooling" water. So logic would say cooler water comes out of radiator and not resivoir

The res will not warm up the water unless you're chilling your water to below ambient temperatures. Thinking anything else is just laughable.

I had a plastic bay res that in res temps were ~5 degrees warmer than that wich came out of the radiator. So why would i have it the other way around?

The temperatures in your loop should not vary more than a degree or two ANYWHERE in the loop. If anything else is the case then your setup is completely fubarred and your experience isn't valid as a source for experience.

hmm thats funny cuase i thought i pour my water and coolant INTO A RESEVIOUR. its this big plastic jug (for lack of better words) thats holds a body of water, im sorry i thought that was the resivoir.

That's the overflow. Water does not circulate through it.

nice that you didnt quote the part where I said that I need to reseat my block. I bet you are a republican too, quote the part that fitts your argument best and ignore the rest.

Actually I'm not a republican.

 

[zer0signal667]

An eye is upon you all, be civil or don't participate...

 

[PsycoGeek]

you might have mistaken me when I said BIX II, that's the name of the rad I have, not the dual

That would be one reason for slightly higher temps. I'm using a double heater core I got from Danger Den.

You setup still looks OK. Res-->Pump-->blocks-->Radiator--> It's the way I have mine setup. And MikeP is right, you have too much stuff in the water. The way you wrote it in the origional post, I thought you dumped nothing but the Zerex in there... LOL That would have been bad.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

The res will not warm up the water unless you're chilling your water to below ambient temperatures. Thinking anything else is just laughable.

The temperatures in your loop should not vary more than a degree or two ANYWHERE in the loop. If anything else is the case then your setup is completely fubarred and your experience isn't valid as a source for experience.

That's the overflow. Water does not circulate through it.

Actually I'm not a republican.

You are incorrect. The Saturns will actually circulate coolant throught their 'overslow' tank.

You are correct. The temps of the water in the loop shouldn't change very fast, at any point in the loop.

 

[thewhiteguy]

Saturns will actually circulate coolant throught their 'overslow' tank.

Weird, I can't see why they would do that. If I ever come upon someone with a Saturn, I'll take a look at that.

 

[TheGamerZ]

My girlfriend has a Saturn and I can confirm that.

 

[Epicenter]

The heat capacity of water is very high. Order of components is almost entirely irrelevant.

 

[MikeP]

Ok, this bickering has forced my hand. This is from Overclockers.com great article on Watercooling myths. Go read the whole thing at their site.

WARNING: Math ahead!

Myth: The order of components has a significant impact on temps (eg, the radiator must be before the CPU).

Reality: The order of components makes a difference of less than 0.5ºC in most watercooling systems. The physics:

pump---->radiator---->CPU---->pump
pump---->CPU---->radiator---->pump

There is only one difference, and that is the position of the pump in the loop, be it before or after the CPU.

Assuming the pump dumps about 50 watts of heat into the water and the flow rate is 1 gallon/minute (gpm - very reasonable assumptions):

Water has a thermal capacity of 4186J/Kg-C at 22ºC and a density of about 1g/mL

With a flow rate of 1 gpm, that's ~3.75 liters/minute (lpm).

3.75 lpm / 60 seconds= 0.0625 liters or kilograms through the waterblocks per second.

4186 * 0.0625 = 261.625 W/C

So that's 1ºC warmer for every 261 watts; but only 50 watts of heat are present, so:

50 / 261.625 = 0.19ºC

Ergo there is a 0.19ºC difference in water temperature between the inlet and outlet of the pump. This does not mean the water is only 0.19ºC warmer than air - that is an entirely different calculation.

And that's with 50 watts. If you're running a smaller pump, such as the D4, you're looking at about 15 watts.

So, do what allows for the simplest tubing runs - tubing length/kinking will have a greater impact on temps.