Weird Stuttering Problem (sync related, not performance related)

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tastethecourage

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Aug 9, 2008
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Here's my problem...

Whenever a game I am running is hitting 60fps, the game displays silky smooth as it should. I am forced to use Vsync because when I do not, I get horrendously terrible screen tearing with nearly all of my games.

Now, the moment I drop below 60fps, even if I am still hitting a 50-55 fps clip, the fluidity of the game diminishes greatly and looks flat out choppy, as if it were running at 20 fps. I've done lots of testing and this rule applies for all of my games. The second I even hit 58 fps, I get very noticeable hitches where it feels like a frame is being displayed too long and my display skips a frame. The lower the frame rate, the worse the stuttering is. Once I'm in the 35-40 fps range, the game is nearly unplayable. Not because I have high standards, but because the stutters are out of control.

I have a feeling this is due to some sort of video card/monitor sync issue. I either get terrible screen tearing at very high frame rates (80fps+) with Vsync off, or get terrible stuttering issues when the framerate drops below 60fps with Vsync on.

I consider myself fairly competent with computers, as I have built them for myself and for family members and troubleshoot things all the time. I feel confident this issue has nothing to do with my HDD (like loading).

Has anyone experienced this before or heard of this issue? It's usually a nonissue, as my rig is usually able to handle most games at 60fps... but the games it can't... the issue honestly gives me a headache and hurts my eyes. The issue has persisted through two reformats and many different drivers.

My system :

Q6600 @ 2.81ghz (yes, I have tried running it at stock, same results)
GTX 260 (not 216)
3gb RAM
XP (32 bit unfortunately)
Creative soundcard
750W PC Power & Cooling PSU
25.5" 1920x1200 monitor, 60hz, DVI cable

Thanks. I'm open to ANY suggestions guys.
 
Are you using triple buffering with vsync? And how are you measuring FPS?
 
Violator said:
Are you using triple buffering with vsync? And how are you measuring FPS?
Click to expand...

I have tried using triple buffering and not using triple buffering and I haven't noticed a difference.

I am measuring FPS through FRAPS and also through in-game commands when available.
 
What games are we talking about? Are you using native resolution? What AA/AF settings?

You're sure the HDD isn't thrashing when you're getting these slowdowns?
 
what game are you testing? happen to try another dvi cable? try the other dvi port on video card? try to uninstall drivers, use driver cleaner, reinstall new drivers

my rant::

with my rig below. i use sync off. tearing isnt that bad to notice when u play. must be another issue.

i dont care what system you have running vsync on for anything i will feel slow compared to sync off

i played fallout 3, setting sync off and on through game settings fraps said 60. i am like WTF this rig runs at 60? i tried 1024x768 for kicks no aa,af...still same??/ changed settings in nvidia to force sync off. runs like it should.

the bane of the world is lcd 60hz. new tech is needed for the fps junkies.
 
What games I'm running that I've experienced this with?

FEAR 2 (not very much as I very rarely ever dropped under 60fps)
The Witcher
STALKER Clear Sky
Far Cry 2
Mass Effect
Mirror's Edge (again, not so much as falling under 60fps was rare)
Fallout 3
Oblivion

Just to name a few. When I mention Oblivion & Fallout, I'm not referring to the HDD stutter when loading new areas in on the main map.

Yes, native resolution is being used.

I usually keep AA set to 0 because jaggies don't bother me too much. If I can afford to use AA I will, but I won't sacrifice going under 60fps for it. AF I usually have set to 8x.
 
I take you are so unfortunate you game on an LCD, hence why you use Vsync.
One thing to notice about the use of Vsync is this:
http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34027

"If your game cannot achieve the same frames per second as your monitor with Vsync ON, it will (sometimes) drop to 1/2 the value of your refresh rate, hence fps drops to 30, 20, 15 etc in *steps* when vsync is on, but without vsync the change is in 1fps units (or less)"

So you so from 60 FPS to...tadaaa 30 FPS...not 59 FPS.

Just another reason to stay clear of LCD's for gaming...
 
Atech said:
I take you are so unfortunate you game on an LCD, hence why you use Vsync.
One thing to notice about the use of Vsync is this:
http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=34027

"If your game cannot achieve the same frames per second as your monitor with Vsync ON, it will (sometimes) drop to 1/2 the value of your refresh rate, hence fps drops to 30, 20, 15 etc in *steps* when vsync is on, but without vsync the change is in 1fps units (or less)"

So you so from 60 FPS to...tadaaa 30 FPS...not 59 FPS.

Just another reason to stay clear of LCD's for gaming...
Click to expand...

Triple buffering solves.
 
Atech said:
Not for DirectX with NVIDIA...and not if the FPS goes under 60...look it up.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're saying. Please elaborate. You should always use Triple Buffering when Vsync on to prevent not only tearing, but also the framerate loss that comes along with using Vsync at framerates lower than the monitor's refresh rate. I always used Triple Buffering and Vsync on every game with my GeForce 6800.


And to the TS, I think I know what you're talking about, and it's just a display issue. If you're running at 60hz, and you're seeing a slight choppyness at 55 fps, try reducing the max framerate to half of your refresh rate (so for this case 30 fps). I run my CRT at 100hz, and I notice a slight but persistent stutter when games dip to 95 FPS also. If I drop max frames to 50 fps, which means frames will be displayed on every other refresh, it's much more fluid.
 
The Triplebuffering setting you find in the nVidia Control Panel only works with OpenGL games. To enable triplebuffering for DirectX games, you need to use other utilities. This is not well known, largely because nVidia fails to use their fancy Control Panel UI to actually explain stuff like this.

tastethecourage, you'll want to read the Tweakguides pages on Vsync and Triplebuffering carefully. The answers you're looking for may be there:

http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_9.html
http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_10.html
 
PornoSatan said:
I'm not sure what you're saying. Please elaborate. You should always use Triple Buffering when Vsync on to prevent not only tearing, but also the framerate loss that comes along with using Vsync at framerates lower than the monitor's refresh rate. I always used Triple Buffering and Vsync on every game with my GeForce 6800.
Click to expand...

Not under directx with NVIDIA...unless you "hacked" the CP there is NO tripplebuffering.


And to the TS, I think I know what you're talking about, and it's just a display issue. If you're running at 60hz, and you're seeing a slight choppyness at 55 fps, try reducing the max framerate to half of your refresh rate (so for this case 30 fps). I run my CRT at 100hz, and I notice a slight but persistent stutter when games dip to 95 FPS also. If I drop max frames to 50 fps, which means frames will be displayed on every other refresh, it's much more fluid.
Click to expand...

If he has a LCD and runs games with Vsync he cannot run at 55FPS...if it's not 60FPS, the VSYNC will drop the FPS to 30...not 59, 58, 57........33, 32, 31 FPS:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593
 
Atech said:
Not under directx with NVIDIA...unless you "hacked" the CP there is NO tripplebuffering.




If he has a LCD and runs games with Vsync he cannot run at 55FPS...if it's not 60FPS, the VSYNC will drop the FPS to 30...not 59, 58, 57........33, 32, 31 FPS:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=928593
Click to expand...

Hmm. I have never observed this with FRAPS or with the in-game counters. That said, I usually do have triple buffering on which does address this issue, at least for OpenGL games.

Thanks for the links to the Tweakguides, evilsofa, but I've read through them already. I sort of came here because I'm out of ideas. Heh.

PornoSatan, that sounds similar to mine, except mine really disrupts gameplay. What are you using to cap your max frames? An outside program? That might solve my problem.

Thanks guys for all the posts.
 
eVGA's Precision utility and Rivatuner will display your current FPS onscreen as you play the game. If you have a G15 keyboard, Precision will show the FPS on its LCD display (not sure if Rivatuner does that too).
 
Try playing w/o Vsync and see if it solves your problem. IF it does uninstall your drivers and grab the latest WHQL drivers and use them.
 
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