Weird PC issue...

S

SBMongoos

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jul 22, 2001
Messages
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I run 2 SATA drives on my PC. Had been thinking about doing a fresh install. So, having a spare IDE drive and an older mb I thought I'd simply disconnect the SATA drives and my IDE optical drive. Then connected a spare IDE drive as to install WinXP Pro up through SP3 and any other MS updates.

Once done I simply did a backup to my external backup drive, disconnected the IDE drive and then reconnected my SATA drives (C,D) and my optical drive. Went to boot up and the system just hung. ?? Shut the PC down, waited and then restarted. System finally came up but rather slow. Had to select Start Windows Manually (I think that's the option from the menu that popped up) and then Windows finally loaded. All appeared ok but I noticed the PC was running slow and a program I use occasionally locked up. I thought I'd just reboot to flush out the RAM.

On reboot I lost video!! WTF. A buddy recommended clearing the BIOS so I did but still no video.

Is this all coincidence or is there something else going on. I've swapped drives like this in the past to get certain tasks with various techniques and don't remember anything like this happening.

The mb is a Gigabyte 8KNXP Rev 2.

Any ideas?
 
Resetting the BIOS can be tricky sometimes.
Try unplugging the battery and unplugging from the mains overnight.

Its possible the drive or something else had/developed a fault.
Try booting your PC with no PCI cards, USB devices and other drives plugged in.
If that works we may be able to track down a faulty component or determine if there is a power problem.
 
Tried this but I got the same result.

The AGP video card has been tested and it's okay. So is the monitor.
 
Does the motherboard beep at all?
You may need to plug a speaker onto the header on the motherboard.
 
No. I have one connected and even stopped at a local shop and picked up another speaker and connected it. Still no beeps, etc.
 
Try unplugging the memory or gfx card and see if it beeps then.
 
Does the PC power up at all?
Is there any hard drive activity?

If the PC doesnt power up, test if the PSU is completely dead by unplugging it from everything and shorting green to black on the big motherboard connector.
It should power on, if not then the PSU has a fault.
 
Nenu said:
Does the PC power up at all?
Is there any hard drive activity?

If the PC doesnt power up, test if the PSU is completely dead by unplugging it from everything and shorting green to black on the big motherboard connector.
It should power on, if not then the PSU has a fault.
Click to expand...

Yes it does power up. I need to check the hard drive activity as they are installed in an Icy Dock. Gigabyte told me to pull the CMOS battery and wait two hours and try again so I will try again before long to listen for the hard disks to spin up.
 
Okay, popped the CMOS battery back in and still no go on video. I still get no beeps to determine what's going on.

I can clearly hear drive C:/ power up and spin!
 
Unplug everything you can but leave the CPU in place and see if it beeps.
This is the last hope that it will show some life.
If this doesnt work, your motherboard or PSU is likely dead.

There is a tiny possibility that a dead CPU is somehow borking the motherboards operation but CPU failure is far less common than PSU or motherboard failure.
Because of this its best not to go buying parts until it has been investigated further.

See if you can borrow another PSU thats not a cheapy to test with.
Make sure its powerful enough as a weak PSU might do the same thing.
 
I've already unplugged everything but the CPU and PSU and still no beep.

I can see about getting my hands on a PSU. The one I have is coming on but that doesn't mean it's generating enough power, correct?
 
SBMongoos said:
I've already unplugged everything but the CPU and PSU and still no beep.

I can see about getting my hands on a PSU. The one I have is coming on but that doesn't mean it's generating enough power, correct?
Click to expand...

There are a number of modes of failure for a PSU, lack of power on 12V is one of them.
A faulty PSU 'can' still power up, it depends on the fault.
 
Nenu said:
There are a number of modes of failure for a PSU, lack of power on 12V is one of them.
A faulty PSU 'can' still power up, it depends on the fault.
Click to expand...

Is there a way to test a PSU with a voltage meter to see if it's good?
 
You can test for some problems with a basic meter but not all of them.
By far the easiest method of seeing if there is 'any issue' with the PSU itself is to see if the problem goes away when using another suitable PSU.
Once the PSU has been established as a problem, you can investigate further to find why but most of the time it is a futile effort as they do wear out and need replacing after a few years or less in many cases (especially cheap/bad designs).

If you want to test yourself with a multimeter for basic failure condition...
Check and note the PSU's 5V and 12V rail voltages with a good quality/calibrated meter when it is attached to nothing at all, power the PSU up with the Green to Black wire trick.
When the PC is powered up, check the 12V and 5V rails again.
There should be a small drop from the above measured voltages, if its quite large (ie anywhere near -5%), the PSU is struggling.
They should also show less than +/-5% variance from the rated voltages, I consider being near 3% as not so good.
Adding more load (more hard drives, PCI cards, 5V / 12V USB devices etc) will likely cause a further drop in the voltage but it should be tiny if the PSU is stable.

The ATX spec requests that the voltage rails stay within 10% of rated voltage but if the PSU is anywhere near to those limits something isnt right.
Components should still function at +/-10% as long as they are at stock clock speeds.
Its not wise to use a PSU in that state though as it could expire, possibly taking other components out with it.

The above wont test for noise, dropouts, other types of unstable voltages, heat related issues etc.
 
Yoiks.. (as Shaggy would say, or was it Scooby Doo?). I understand what you're saying but don't understand well enough to know how to do this with a voltage meter.

You know there are tones of PSUs out there. Some are more efficient that others, etc. What to buy and get a great value? Some look like they are no better but come with crazy price tags. How do you know what to get? I can't afford to waste money right now.

What about this paper clip test with the PSU? Is this accurate at all?

Thanks for all your help!!
 
Before we go that far can you list the following:
1) Full PC specs.
2) The PSU make/model, how old it is, how often it has been used and how warm your room/pc gets.

I am trying to determine how likely it is that the PSU is on its way out and whether it was/was not a good one in the first place.
It would be much better to test with another suitable PSU before buying another as at the moment the motherboard is just as suspect and a small possibility the CPU is the problem.
Its still big guesses but we have little to work with.

If you want to know which is the best PSU and get the best bargain, make another thread asking just that question.
Dont forget to list your PC parts and any upgrades you intend to do.
You will get more assistance then, but its a bit premature to get another PSU until we know if it is bad or faulty.


Yes, using a paper clip on the Green/black wires on the PSU's motherboard connector should power it up for the tests listed earlier.
I stated how accurate the test is.
 
1) P4 3Ghz, nVidia FX5200 (came from another PC about 2 years ago), 2x1G PC3200 RAM, 500w JGE PSU, Gigabyte 8KNXP Rev 2 motherboard, Connextent Modem, 2 - Seagate Sata 2 hard drives 250G (perpendicular recording - mb does SATA not SATA 2), Lite On CD-RW, NEC DVD-RW/DL, a 9 in 1 media card reader. Installed a 3-1 SATA drive bay that takes up to front bays from ICY Dock. Have webcam, MF printer, MP3 dock and a Altec Lansing speaker system attached.

All but the RAM is about ~ 3.5 years old.

I think that covers it.

2) PSU: A+ GPB Inc (JGE), 500W P4-12V

This was put into this PC when I built it ~3.5 years ago. Maybe 4 years. Sitting on a loft. About 70 or cooler during the winter and upper 70s during the summer. This unit gets turned on and off about once a day on average. Maybe a little more than that.

You said, "If the PC doesnt power up, test if the PSU is completely dead by unplugging it from everything and shorting green to black on the big motherboard connector.
It should power on, if not then the PSU has a fault." Since it is powering up is there any reason to perform this test?

Okay, just ran the paper clip test: there are three fans on this PSU and some goofy colored lights inside the PSU. All came on! Runs very quite.
 
Nearly any PSU that is 3.5 years old and used regularly is suspect.
I've never heard of JGE so cant comment on the quality of the unit.
Room temps arent excessive so I have to assume that internal PSU temps arent either.
The PSU is a strong suspect but its by no means certain it is the problem.

No there is no reason to perform the straight forward power up test but the voltage check test might be useful.
 
In regards to the voltage test would you be willing to give me some step by step process on what to do? I have a Sears digital mulitmeter I got on sale for about $10 some time back to use.
 
I did give step by step instructions in post #18, report the voltages you get when the PSU is not under load, when powering the basic PC and after you plug everything else in.
The meter you have might not be the best to put any faith in but the results might be so bad that its immediately obvious.
Thats the only thing we can hope for really.

I'm off out for a bit so might take time to respond.
 
Here's what I did: with everything connected I removed one hard drive power connector to test with the voltage meter. So everything else is plugged in and connected. I tested the Red on this connector and got 5.1 and then tested the yellow and got 11.9. After this test I then disconnected the 4 Pin connector near the CPU. Tested 11.9 and checked both yellow and black since there's two of each.

The PSU was disconnected between tests, etc.

Bad test or helpful?

Also, pulled all connections, cards and RAM. Removed CPU from Mb. Reconnected CPU (set heat sync and fan on top of CPU and connected fan), video card, one stick of RAM and connected PSU to Mb (20pin and 4pin) - plugged into AC and powered up but still no video. In other words same problem. Was told this was a test worthwhile to try even though it's a bit of a hassle.

Looks like Mb failure? Since it's still not providing beeps for testing this concerns me.
 
The test was useful in determining that the voltages are well within spec and the emphasis on the PSU being the problem is a bit less.
Thats all we know though, this hasnt established that the PSU is definitely at fault but it also has not told us the PSU is ok for sure.

You need to test with another PSU and CPU to verify where the fault is for sure.
 
If I havent got a spare, I borrow from friends in times of need, much cheaper to test things that way.
 
Nenu said:
If I havent got a spare, I borrow from friends in times of need, much cheaper to test things that way.
Click to expand...

Believe me I'd do it if I could. I know I could at least buy a PSU and take it back but that doesn't help with the CPU.
 
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