Watercooling advice needed!

[Xiode]

Alright, so I just got my first job )) as of like 2 weeks ago. Now that I'm getting some money finally, I'm planning to pretty much totally redo my computer. Not only do I want to give it a whole new look, I also want to quiet it and increase overall system performance and overclockability.

The components that I have now that I'm actually KEEPING:
3500+ Winnie
1GB G.Skill LE 2-3-3-7
Sapphire Radeon 9800 Pro (until I can upgrade to a PCI-E board and get a new card)

Ok, with that in mind... I need some reccomendations, not only for watercooling, but other components as well. I figured it all had to do with the watercooling anyway, so I might as well post it all at once here.

I might move to SLI in the future, but I'm going to need a considerable amount of money. Currently, upgrades are going to reach at least $500, and that doesn't even include one video card, much less two. I was wondering if you guys think I should go with a DFI Ultra-D or an SLI-DR. Can the Ultra's still be modded to SLI?

Next, one of the biggies: the case. I'm really undecided right now as to what to get, except for the fact that I want a nice silver brushed aluminum Lian-Li. Now, which Lian-Li I want is the question. Which would be best for fitting a watercooling setup in, possibly with a double heatercore? I was thinking maybe the v1000.

Also, are the Lian-Li's easy to mod? I'd like to make that my first modding project, to add a window to whichever Lian-Li I get (given, that it doesn't already have one).

Moving on... would a OCZ Powerstream 520w be enough to power an SLI setup? Would it be compatible with the 24-pin on the DFI?

Now, to the good stuff: the actual setup. I actually bought 90% of a watercooling setup before, but funds ran out and I just sold everything. I want to do it this time! I'm SO tired of this 92mm Tornado running full speed 24/7 to power this overclock.

I was thinking of the following parts, but I'm open to opinions:
Swiftech Storm CPU block
Maze 4 GPU block (with both adapters, so I can use it on my 9800 Pro now, and then again on my next card)
I need reccomendations on everything else, from tubing, to water additives, a pump, etc...

Also, keep in mind that I want this system to look BADASS and unique. I'm thinking maybe a yellow or a neon UV watter additive and a blacklight, or a darker colored CCFL.


For anyone who made is this far, thanks for the help in advance! I appretiate it!

 

[Vertigo Acid]

I might move to SLI in the future, but I'm going to need a considerable amount of money. Currently, upgrades are going to reach at least $500, and that doesn't even include one video card, much less two. I was wondering if you guys think I should go with a DFI Ultra-D or an SLI-DR. Can the Ultra's still be modded to SLI?

AFAIK, yes, but my question is, if your plan is for the future, why worry about getting a motherboard now that you *might* be able to mod into doing SLI. By that time, there will be some motherboard that is later and greater that you'll be able to get for SLI. Also, the mod involves some physical modification to the board, which is a big step for anyone.

Next, one of the biggies: the case. I'm really undecided right now as to what to get, except for the fact that I want a nice silver brushed aluminum Lian-Li. Now, which Lian-Li I want is the question. Which would be best for fitting a watercooling setup in, possibly with a double heatercore? I was thinking maybe the v1000.

Also, are the Lian-Li's easy to mod? I'd like to make that my first modding project, to add a window to whichever Lian-Li I get (given, that it doesn't already have one).

While i'm still partial to my PC-75b and the old LL style, the V-series seems to be a very popular option for watercooling. Tons of space, easy to mod, just don't fuck up and ruin the finish... it's easy to do. I have a couple of bad marks on the top of my case from where my drill skipped when I was putting in a fillport hole, and no paint will ever fix anodized aluminum gouges.

Moving on... would a OCZ Powerstream 520w be enough to power an SLI setup? Would it be compatible with the 24-pin on the DFI?

Yes, and yes. It's a solid supply that has proven itself

I was thinking of the following parts, but I'm open to opinions:
Swiftech Storm CPU block
Maze 4 GPU block (with both adapters, so I can use it on my 9800 Pro now, and then again on my next card)
I need reccomendations on everything else, from tubing, to water additives, a pump, etc...

Also, keep in mind that I want this system to look BADASS and unique. I'm thinking maybe a yellow or a neon UV watter additive and a blacklight, or a darker colored CCFL.

If you want unique, then I would avoid UV. It's been done so many times, and there are only so many different UV additives to use
As for your WC parts, don't worry about getting different parts for the GPU block now; wait until you get your next card because who knows what kind of mounting setup they will have. For tubing, it's sort of up to you as to whether you like the looks of 1/2", 7/16", or 3/8". Some prefer comparitvly sleek and skinny 3/8". I, on the other hand, like some meat on my... umm computer parts, so 1/2" it is. 7/16" is right in the middle and has receintly been getting a lot of attention as a good compromise. The difference in performance between the three is minimal at best. 3/8" is the easiest to route. As for brand, Tygon is the king, hands down, but there are alternatives. Anything is better than Vinyl from your hardware store, I can say from experience.
Pump-wise, if you go for 3/8", get a DDC/MCP350. Otherwise, go for the D5/MCP655. Both are good pumps performance-wise, the DDC is quieter, but the D5 is still relativly quiet.
For a radiator, check out the deals DangerDen has right now on Black Ice radiators. If you're going to get quieter fans, then the BI Pros are better performers, but if you want to throw some high flow fans on, the the BI Extreme pulls away in performance. For the price, nothing compares.
Finally, you have to decide whether you want a T-line or a resevoir. A res is more expensive as easier to fill and bleed out all the air, but some don't like the looks or the added weight. A T-line is just a T fitting with a length of hose attached to the top and a cap or fillport that you add water through and let the air escape out of. It takes a couple of days to get most of the air out, compared to a few hours at most for a resevoir. Performance is the same for both of them.

Whew. That was a lot of typing

 

[Xiode]

I appretiate it!

Well, I'm was trying to do all the upgrades at once, because I'm not sure how hard/easy it'll be to remove and add components once I actually get the watercooling. I mean, do I have to completely dissasemble the setup, or take the water out in order to change out a motherboard or GPU? How would you even empty the water from the system?

Someone at OCForums had reccomended that I go with a V1200 and a Thermochill PA160 on the front intake. Would that be better than a BIX? Also, would the V1200 have enough room for a double heatercore? Would a V2000?

You said the D5 is louder than the DDC. Does it have better pressure/flow?

 

[eumskickin]

The v2000 is a ginormous case. I would go with it if you can, the more room the better
here are pictures of mine before i put in the watercooling.

and here is the top of the case with the rad installed and hole cut for the res

another option for the pumps is the csystems pumps.
its quite and very small and pumps 140 gph or ~600 lph
i am running one so far ( going to add 2 more) and it has been great ( even has an RPM read out when you plug it into a 3 pin plug (like the cpu fan headder)

you can get them here http://dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=178&cat=23&page=1

 

[Xiode]

So the V2000 is big enough to fit a triple heatercore? It looks like it might be running into your DFI. It certaintly looks nice though.

Is that a Aquatube you're putting in? I was considering getting one of those myself!

 

[eumskickin]

So the V2000 is big enough to fit a triple heatercore? It looks like it might be running into your DFI. It certaintly looks nice though.

Is that a Aquatube you're putting in? I was considering getting one of those myself!

yes on the aqua tube. If you top mount go with the thinist rad you can (i am using the BIP 120.3) and to use the PCI slots i can only run 2 fans. but the heater cores are not as long .... so you may be able to do it.

 

[Xiode]

yes on the aqua tube. If you top mount go with the thinist rad you can (i am using the BIP 120.3) and to use the PCI slots i can only run 2 fans. but the heater cores are not as long .... so you may be able to do it.

So that's not an Aquacomputer rad, it's just a grill? It looks pretty sweet, I'd like to look into getting one myself, along with an Aquatube with an Aquajet.

 

[theseeker]

So that's not an Aquacomputer rad, it's just a grill? It looks pretty sweet, I'd like to look into getting one myself, along with an Aquatube with an Aquajet.

Why not...just do it!

Resistance is futile!

 

[Top Nurse]

Why not...just do it!
Resistance is futile!

My favorite saying

 

[Top Nurse]

So that's not an Aquacomputer rad, it's just a grill? It looks pretty sweet, I'd like to look into getting one myself, along with an Aquatube with an Aquajet.

I also use BI Pro's with my AC Evo grills. They work great.

 

[Xiode]

Where do you guys get all your AquaComputer products from? The only site I've seen thus far that carries them is www.sharkacorp.com. PLEASE say there's a better place.

 

[theseeker]

Where do you guys get all your AquaComputer products from? The only site I've seen thus far that carries them is www.sharkacorp.com. PLEASE say there's a better place.

Is there a problem? Sharka works well for me.....

 

[Xiode]

Is there a problem? Sharka works well for me.....

I don't know, just really doesn't seem like that much of a professional site to me. However, I just checked it on ResellerRatings and it seems to be a perfectly legit site, good in fact. How are they in terms of shipping? Their prices aren't that great.

How well does that Aquabay work? Any benfits of it rather than just cutting a hole on top for the Aquatube and Aquajets by themselves?

Also, $25 for a grill is rediculous.

 

[Erasmus354]

Why not...just do it!

Resistance is futile!

Why not? Price doesn't justify performance now that the storm is out.

And resistance is quite easy when all their blocks look very similar to DD or Asetek blocks and perform about the same. The only thing that AC has that others dont is the aquaero, aquatube and the rad grill. And one of the things in that list will cost you your first born

 

[Russ]

AC is expensive, no way around it. And it's hard to buy the parts you want and mate them to DD stuff b/c AC stuff tends to be 1) measured in mm and 2) much smaller ID and OD.

Follow Vertigo Acid's advice, but if you get high flow fans, get the double heatercore over the BIX2. I suggest low flow and BIP2 myself. (My Computer. No pics yet, but I got links and prices to everything, including a full CPU and GPU watercooling setup.)

 

[Top Nurse]

I don't know, just really doesn't seem like that much of a professional site to me. However, I just checked it on ResellerRatings and it seems to be a perfectly legit site, good in fact. How are they in terms of shipping? Their prices aren't that great.

How well does that Aquabay work? Any benfits of it rather than just cutting a hole on top for the Aquatube and Aquajets by themselves?

Also, $25 for a grill is rediculous.

Well AFAIK they have been in business for over three years. The gov't says if a SB survives for 5 years they are usually good to go. Shipping is good on most products. Aqua Computer is somewhat problematic because of the high demand for the products, though they do have ever increasing amounts of stock coming in at least once a month. I think Wes told me one day that they have done about 25-30K in sales of AC gear since they took the line on 3 months ago!

Their prices on AC goods is about what the outgoing distributor (SNT Systems) was charging. Actually on quite a few items they have lower prices than SNT had which I assume is due to their quantity buying and minimizing shipping expenses with a customs broker.

If you think $25 for a solid stainless steel grill that is about 2mm thick and cut with a laser is expensive I suggest you look around to see what others charge. Whoops...sorry about that, but AFAIK no one here in the USA sells those kind of grills.

 

[Top Nurse]

Why not? Price doesn't justify performance now that the storm is out.

And resistance is quite easy when all their blocks look very similar to DD or Asetek blocks and perform about the same. The only thing that AC has that others dont is the aquaero, aquatube and the rad grill. And one of the things in that list will cost you your first born

Hey if your not interested in AC then don't rag on it. I avoid like the plague threads that are predominantly high flow orientated. The only reaon I posted here was because the guy wanted to know about AC grills and some other stuff.

I don't know why you keep saying that AC blocks look like DD or Asetek blocks? Have you ever seen a AC block up personal? If you had you would know they aren't like DD or Asetek. I will freely admit that the Aquaero is expensive and we have gone over this time and time again as to the reasons and some solutions. Do you want to go over it again? I'm ready and willing

 

[Xiode]

What's the Aquaero?

Does the grill work on other rads besides the BIP series?

And last but not least, can you combine the Aquatube, the Aquabay, and the Aquajet all in one? Is there an internal LED that makes the water colored, or is it UV light that leaks in the res? What all accessories and such do I need to make mine look like the above?

 

[Top Nurse]

AC is expensive, no way around it. And it's hard to buy the parts you want and mate them to DD stuff b/c AC stuff tends to be 1) measured in mm and 2) much smaller ID and OD.

6mm = 1/4"

8mm = 5/16"

10mm = 3/8"

12mm = 1/2"

You can buy stock standard AC fittings off the shelf in the USA to fit any 6mm, 8mm, or 10mm tube around. And yes it is expensive, but only because of monetary exchange rates. If that bothers you, go take it up with your friendly local politician. It is also made in Germany and they make very good looking and performing stuff.

 

[Top Nurse]

What's the Aquaero?

Does the grill work on other rads besides the BIP series?

And last but not least, can you combine the Aquatube, the Aquabay, and the Aquajet all in one? Is there an internal LED that makes the water colored, or is it UV light that leaks in the res? What all accessories and such do I need to make mine look like the above?

The Aquaero is a system monitoring tool that can control your whole water cooling system. Some people call it an expensive fan controller, but that would be like saying an ICBM is a skyrocket. If you want to see one lit up then there was one posted in this thread earlier (about 10-15 posts back). It has a VFD display that allows you to see it easily across the room or at extreme angles.

Here are some Aquaero related links:

Aquaero Question and Answer Thread
The new Aqua Computer discussion thread
AC Aquastream / Aquaero info needed

The AC Airplex Evo grills will work on a lot of different radiators. Of course it is plug & play with the AC Evo radiators, it works with all the Black Ice series rads with a few mods to the fans, and I also checked it out one day with a Thermochill radiator as well.

The Aquajet is designed to be inserted into an Aquatube. I suppose it might be able to fit in other reservoirs but that is up to you. Anway the proper way to mount the Aquatube is horizontally with the use of an AquaBay AT or vertically with an Aquatube mounting plate. Some people make their own mounting plate for doing horizontal applications.

With the Aquatube you can add clear plexi LED holders that will allow you to shine in light and if you have an Aquaero you can make it do some interesting things. Like having it setup so that when you first turn on your box the color is green, when it get warm it turns to yellow, and when it gets too hot it turns red. Or of course you can just add in whatever LED color you want or LED UV as well. Aquatubes look sick

To make it look like that pic below you would need the AC Evo grill(s) for your chosen rad size(s). You would need an Aquaero, Aquatube, an Aquastream pump plus whatever blocks you were going to use. Some people use the Laing DDC pumps on the back of the AquaBay (the Aquabay is designed to hold the Aquatube and the Aquastream pump in a single assembly).

Here is the Aqua Computer world wide distribution page so pick out someone close to you.

 

[Xiode]

I sure would like an Aquaero, but it's just TOO expensive. I'm a 15 year old on a "I work for minimum wage" budget.

So the Aquabay, Aquatube, and Aquajet can all be incorporated into 1? If so, that's what I plan on doing with a Lian-Li PC-7077A. I'm going to leave the stock intake where it is, and put the Aquabay right above it.

Then, what I'm thinking is... I'm going to Dremel a hole for a BIX2, stick some San Ace's on it, and slap a Evo 240 on it. Then I put an additional Black Ice Pro on the intake.

What do you guys think of this loop?

Laing D5 -> BIX2 -> Aquabay, Aquatube, Aquajet -> another D5 -> Swiftech Storm

Opinions?

 

[theseeker]

I sure would like an Aquaero, but it's just TOO expensive. I'm a 15 year old on a "I work for minimum wage" budget.

So the Aquabay, Aquatube, and Aquajet can all be incorporated into 1? If so, that's what I plan on doing with a Lian-Li PC-7077A. I'm going to leave the stock intake where it is, and put the Aquabay right above it.

Then, what I'm thinking is... I'm going to Dremel a hole for a BIX2, stick some San Ace's on it, and slap a Evo 240 on it. Then I put an additional Black Ice Pro on the intake.

What do you guys think of this loop?

Laing D5 -> BIX2 -> Aquabay, Aquatube, Aquajet -> another D5 -> Swiftech Storm

Opinions?

I like your style. BTW, what do you think parents are for? Make a deal with the folks...

 

[Xiode]

Ok, that's a little complicated. I think what I want to do is Aquatube + Aquajet (with out without Aquabay, not sure yet) -> Laing D5 -> Swiftech Storm -> NB and GPU block that I will add at a later date -> BIX2 with Evo 240 grill and some Sanyo Denki's -> Aquatube.

Sound good? Opinions?

Also, I was wondering how that Aquatube opens, and how I would fill it with an Aquabay?

I like your style. BTW, what do you think parents are for? Make a deal with the folks...

Ha, thanks. We posted at the same exact time. I'm really sort of "independent". They allow it, but they don't help fund it.

 

[theseeker]

AC is expensive, no way around it. And it's hard to buy the parts you want and mate them to DD stuff b/c AC stuff tends to be 1) measured in mm and 2) much smaller ID and OD.

Follow Vertigo Acid's advice, but if you get high flow fans, get the double heatercore over the BIX2. I suggest low flow and BIP2 myself. (My Computer. No pics yet, but I got links and prices to everything, including a full CPU and GPU watercooling setup.)

No ill will intended by this reply. However, has any one ever divided the cost of the entire system by the H20 part? I doubt it.
If you spend $1000 or $500 on a processor why wouldn't you spend the proportionate amount on H20 cooling? Just my .02.

 

[Erasmus354]

Hey if your not interested in AC then don't rag on it. I avoid like the plague threads that are predominantly high flow orientated. The only reaon I posted here was because the guy wanted to know about AC grills and some other stuff.

I don't know why you keep saying that AC blocks look like DD or Asetek blocks? Have you ever seen a AC block up personal? If you had you would know they aren't like DD or Asetek. I will freely admit that the Aquaero is expensive and we have gone over this time and time again as to the reasons and some solutions. Do you want to go over it again? I'm ready and willing

What is so different to make AC blocks dissimilar to Asetek or DD blocks? They are all plexi topped copper blocks. Yes I know the Evo looks slightly different, but not much so. It is still largely the same, a plexi covered copper block. Asetek blocks even come with push fits(i think?) similar to what most people couple with their AC blocks.

Look pretty similar to me...


As to price doesn't justify performance....AC blocks simply cant compete price/performance wise now that the STORM block is out at 75$. Does this mean there is no reason to buy AC? No, period. AC and Innovatek still hold a decided advantage in features. Price/Performance, and even looks wise I see no reason to go with AC (unless of course you simply like AC). However, features wise the only company that can hold a candle to AC and their aquaero is innovatek, but innovatek is even less available here than AC.

 

[Xiode]

Ok, that last idea little complicated. I think what I want to do is Aquatube + Aquajet (with out without Aquabay, not sure yet) -> Laing D5 -> Swiftech Storm -> NB and GPU block that I will add at a later date -> BIX2 with Evo 240 grill and some Sanyo Denki's -> Aquatube. Oh, and in case you've been locked in a closet for a year, the Sanyo Denki's put out 103 CFM at 39 DBA full speed.

Sound good? Opinions?

Also, I was wondering how that Aquatube opens, and how I would fill it if used as my system res?

Anyone?

 

[Erasmus354]

Sounds fine to me, you need to be careful with the aquajet though. You might have too much flow in your loop, and with the aquajet that can cause problems of introducing water to the loop, the exact opposite of what a resevoir is supposed to do.

 

[Xiode]

Sounds fine to me, you need to be careful with the aquajet though. You might have too much flow in your loop, and with the aquajet that can cause problems of introducing water to the loop, the exact opposite of what a resevoir is supposed to do.

Too MUCH flow? How do you figure that?

What would you reccomend alternatively?

 

[Vertigo Acid]

No ill will intended by this reply. However, has any one ever divided the cost of the entire system by the H20 part? I doubt it.
If you spend $1000 or $500 on a processor why wouldn't you spend the proportionate amount on H20 cooling? Just my .02.

... well I got my pair of LV xeons for $100 shipped. Yes, $100 for both of them. So the TDXes I slapped on top cost more

 

[Top Nurse]

Sounds fine to me, you need to be careful with the aquajet though. You might have too much flow in your loop, and with the aquajet that can cause problems of introducing water to the loop, the exact opposite of what a resevoir is supposed to do.

???

I think you are referring to the fact that an Aquajet sometimes in a horizontal application will cause bubbles to appear in the system at higher flow rates when it is 1/2 full, correct? In horizontal applications you really don't need an Aquajet as the flow without it causes enough fluid motion to be pleasing to the eye.

 

[Xiode]

How does the Aquatube open up, in order to fill it? What's the proper way to fill your loop with the Aquatub as a res?

 

[Top Nurse]

Ok, that's a little complicated. I think what I want to do is Aquatube + Aquajet (with out without Aquabay, not sure yet) -> Laing D5 -> Swiftech Storm -> NB and GPU block that I will add at a later date -> BIX2 with Evo 240 grill and some Sanyo Denki's -> Aquatube.

Sound good? Opinions?

Also, I was wondering how that Aquatube opens, and how I would fill it with an Aquabay?

If you are going to use a Laing D5 what size tube are you planning on using? Filling an Aquatube in a horizontal application can be done in one of two different ways. Most people turn their computer on it's back and just pop the plexi port and filler up However, I didn't like that so I used a DD Fillport to run a tube from the top of my case to the back of the Aquatube in the horizontally mounted Aquatube. My other Aquatube is mounted vertically so it is easier just to open the plexi and fill.

 

[Top Nurse]

What is so different to make AC blocks dissimilar to Asetek or DD blocks? They are all plexi topped copper blocks. Yes I know the Evo looks slightly different, but not much so. It is still largely the same, a plexi covered copper block. Asetek blocks even come with push fits(i think?) similar to what most people couple with their AC blocks.

Look pretty similar to me...

The Cuplex Pro when it first came out onto the market was unlike anything available in the USA. It is an older cooler now days and a lot of companies have copied their ideas. The Cuplex Evo made before the Cuplex Pro still retains it's unique look to this very day. Then we recently had the Cuplex XT (see below)....must have missed this one, huh? BTW, have you seen the RamPlex?

.

You know perhaps I just have a better eye for nice stuff than you do as I see the Cuplex Pro looking a lot better than the Asetek you have above. Last time I went to the jewlery store I spent about an hour looking for a new ring. I picked out a single 1/2 carat marquise solitaire in a platinum setting and was not even the slightest suprised that it was one of the most expensive items in the store. Nor was I suprised when the owner complimented me on my good tastes. Now some people see one diamond ring much like another diamond ring. Some people see one waterblock looking like another waterblock just because it has similar characteristics. But as they say the devil is in the details.

Also a lot of people don't see the Aquaero in the raw to often so how about this pic:

Keep in mind that this is a custom solution I made to hold two Aquastream controllers on one Aquaero.

 

[Erasmus354]

So the XT is not a plexi topped copper waterblock?

My point is not that they look the SAME, or that AC necessarily looks worse. My point is to stop using the damned "AC looks better than everything else" argument. It doesn't, period, end of story. AC looks very SIMILAR to many other waterblocks on the market today. You may prefer the little nuances of the AC stuff, and someone else may prefer the nuances of the DD stuff. My point is that the looks are close enough that you cant use that as a valid argument or justification when trying to make advice to somebody else.

Hell TN it wasn't you who started this in the first place, you have pretty much stopped provoking the looks debate, however, you never hesitate to jump in once you smell the slightest hint of it in the water.

Please, get out of your little hole, AC waterblocks look largely similar to a multitude of other waterblocks available on the market today.

EDIT : Also the Ramplex looks very similar to the angeleye (I think it was) ram coolers that have been out for over a year