Waterblock Clamp

[titan151]

Hi again,

Wondering if anyone knows of a place to get a waterblock clamp that can be used with a peltier and cold plate. I amthinking of bonding the pelt to the waterblock and then clamping it down. I have to get a lot of pressure between the pelt and waterblock but less between the block and the CPU. I have a koolance waterblock and I don't think my board has the four holes around the socket (A). Any suggestions on a clamp?

 

[zer0signal667]

Originally posted by titan151
Hi again,

Wondering if anyone knows of a place to get a waterblock clamp that can be used with a peltier and cold plate. I amthinking of bonding the pelt to the waterblock and then clamping it down. I have to get a lot of pressure between the pelt and waterblock but less between the block and the CPU. I have a koolance waterblock and I don't think my board has the four holes around the socket (A). Aby suggestions on a clamp?

The usual way to do it is to clamp this peltier between the block and coldplate using screws to get some nice pressure. The block/peltier/coldplate assembly can then be clipped to the motherboard with some other lower-pressure device.

And I would strongly recommend NOT using a peltier with a Koolance block.

 

[titan151]

What I need is something that will extend my water block clips so they will reach the socket. As for the koolance block, I picked it up in a spare parts bin for a whole 9 bucks. The reason I wanted to use it was that I am considering using thermal adhesive to bond the pelt to the waterblock and coldplate. Then set it in a vice and apply the required amount of pressure while it cures. This way I can ensure good contact. Of course removal of said pelt will after the fact be impossible.

So why not Koolance? Not the best block in the world but it should do the jobby. Is it an issue with the plastic around the housing. I could see since this is a 170 watt pelt (and gives off a lot of heat) it could be an issue. I will try to figure out what type of plastic they use and determine how it responds at high temps. Since it is clear I am thinking it is PolyCarb.

 

[zer0signal667]

Originally posted by titan151
What I need is something that will extend my water block clips so they will reach the socket. As for the koolance block, I picked it up in a spare parts bin for a whole 9 bucks. The reason I wanted to use it was that I am considering using thermal adhesive to bond the pelt to the waterblock and coldplate. Then set it in a vice and apply the required amount of pressure while it cures. This way I can ensure good contact. Of course removal of said pelt will after the fact be impossible.

So why not Koolance? Not the best block in the world but it should do the jobby. Is it an issue with the plastic around the housing. I could see since this is a 170 watt pelt (and gives off a lot of heat) it could be an issue. I will try to figure out what type of plastic they use and determine how it responds at high temps. Since it is clear I am thinking it is PolyCarb.

The problem lies here- the adhesion you're going to get is very much different than the pressure a clamping device would exert. With an adhesive you're not going to get very good heat transfer to and from the peltier.
And the problem with the Koolance block is that it's relatively low-performance overall. It's barely suited for cooling a processor alone, and far from fit to cool a peltier.
By the way, many "plastics" are clear without the addition of a dye or pigment, so I wouldn't guess polycarbonate from that alone. I put "plastics" in parenthises because it's sort of an ambiguous term the way that most people use it.

 

[titan151]

Yes I know that the adhesive will not do as well as clamping. But I haven't found to many clamps out there for doing this. Not to mention the pelt is failry large so clamping it on to the pelt is tricky without interfearing with the way it sits on the CPU. I might be able to drill but the waterblock has little room. I wonder how swiftech clamps thier pelt to their waterblock. Perhaps it is bolted on. Haven't seen one up close. So the waterblock isn't all that good but my cooling system (250 gph pump and large rad (2x120 fans)) should be able to disipate most of the wattage.

The one thing about that waterblock that I don't like is the clamp won't tighten beyond a certain pressure. Obviously this prevents average joe from applying too much pressure. But it doesn't seem like enough pressure compared to what I normally apply. I imagine it is something well under to max clamping pressure to avoid an issue with crushing the CPU.

 

[titan151]

aha,

I just found where I can get some High tensile strength thermal adhesive. 14,500 psi. It hold at a temp of -66 to 100 degrees C. Should be adequate to hold the pelt and cold plate to the block. I'll let you know how it goes once I get the me some plastic glue.

 

[jovetata]

go to ur nearest hardware store and get some metal. make two popsicle shapes (small though), get 2 long screws and bolt those around ur block/pelt/coldplate, tighten to ur hearts content

ps, the thiker the 2 pieces of metal, the stronger u can tighten

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by zer0signal667
And I would strongly recommend NOT using a peltier with a Koolance block.

pretty much sums it up

you cant just "get" a clamp, usually when you buy a real waterblock, you also get the clamp mechanism for the cold plates

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by titan151
.

So why not Koolance? Not the best block in the world but it should do the jobby. Is it an issue with the plastic around the housing. I could see since this is a 170 watt pelt (and gives off a lot of heat) it could be an issue. I will try to figure out what type of plastic they use and determine how it responds at high temps. Since it is clear I am thinking it is PolyCarb.

anything under a 200 watt peltier is gonna SUCK and not cool well at all. pelts arent 100% for sure. dont use a koolance block because the whole system isnt good for high heat systems. hell, i wouldnt use the system I have NOW for a peltier setup, i'd upgrade everything definitly.

 

[zer0signal667]

Originally posted by titan151
aha,

I just found where I can get some High tensile strength thermal adhesive. 14,500 psi. It hold at a temp of -66 to 100 degrees C. Should be adequate to hold the pelt and cold plate to the block. I'll let you know how it goes once I get the me some plastic glue.

High tensile strength isn't going to do you much good unless you're applying a tensile load to the peltier, which you're not. You're going to be compressing it, or you WANT to be compressing it anyway. But like I said before, epoxy/thermal adhesive is not going to compress the junction, so it is not going to be helping you much at all. You'd be better off just using thermal paste and a few dabs of adhesive if you're set on doing this the half-assed way.

 

[titan151]

No I am going to apply the required clamping pressure and use the adhesive to prevent it from loosing compression. Advesives are evaluated in tensile strength. Therefore an adhesive such as the one I am usinig will more then adequatley work for this function. In fact such a product will likely work more efectively then a clamp. Most clamps apply uneven pressure and they make it difficult to judge the amount of pressure being applied. This said, I dout that most clamps are applying enough pressure.

As for the waterblock, that is one possible point that may cause some problems. But at 9 bucks I can afford to take the loss if it turns out not to work. Additionaly, the use of a 172 watt pelt should be more then adequate for this application. Anymore would be overkill.

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by titan151
No I am going to apply the required clamping pressure and use the adhesive to prevent it from loosing compression. Advesives are evaluated in tensile strength. Therefore an adhesive such as the one I am usinig will more then adequatley work for this function. In fact such a product will likely work more efectively then a clamp. Most clamps apply uneven pressure and they make it difficult to judge the amount of pressure being applied. This said, I dout that most clamps are applying enough pressure.

As for the waterblock, that is one possible point that may cause some problems. But at 9 bucks I can afford to take the loss if it turns out not to work. Additionaly, the use of a 172 watt pelt should be more then adequate for this application. Anymore would be overkill.

let me make it more clear, in caps

IF YOU PUT ADHESIVE BETWEEN THE PLATE AND THE PELT, IT WILL FUCK UP. THE ADHESIVE IS NOT THERMALLY CONDUCTIVE, AND *SUCKS* COMPARED TO METAL-METAL COMPRESSION ACHEIVED WITH A MECHANISM AND SOME PASTE

IN ADDITION, THE KOOLANCE BLOCK WILL NOT COOL THE PELTIER TO BE EFFECTIVE. AT THE VERY LEAST THE TEMPS WILL BE WORSE, AT VERY WORST IT WILL BECOME AN INSULATOR AND YOUR CHIP WILL OVERHEAT.

A 172 WATT PELT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. YOU CANNOT GO TOO "OVERKILL' BECAUSE THE DELTA TEMP IS DEPENDENT ON THE THERMAL DISSAPATION OF THE HOT SIDE. ALSO TEC'S ARE NOT 100% EFFICIENT SO YOU WILL NOT GET 172 WATTS OF COLD, ASSUMING YOU DISSPATE THE 172 WATTS OF HEAT 100%, WHICH WITH A KOOLANCE IS LAUGHABLE.



now, is that clear?

 

[titan151]

Ack....

This is thermal conducting adhesive. It is fully capable of handling the required clamping pressure. It's an industrial grade product not something you buy at jo mammas. It has excelent strength in compression, and tension. For that matter probally not so bad in shear either. As for the 172 watt pelt..it is commonly used in CPU cooling aplications. Here is one example for you since it cannnt be done.

http://www.overclockers.com/tips326/


I am sure you can find more examples that apply to modern cpu's. As for heat, my CPU puts out at the absolute most 75 watts (likely less). The use of a 200 watt pelt is not required it will simply add more heat to the water cooling loop and waist power. Now as for this koolance block that is god awful absolutely horrible...I will show yoiu some picttures of it working after it is complete. Also, it is easy to avoid major damage to the CPU by simply monitoring the temps. This can be done with both the mobo and an external sensor. That said if it does fail and turn into an insulator I will invoke an act of sheer genius....I'll turn the computer off. Problem solved. Now why don't chu go and talk about the world and how flat it fucking is.

 

[zer0signal667]

The adhesive's strength does not matter, because you will not be applying a load to it. It's not a structural part, it does not sustain a tensile load, so it's strength does not matter. And it will not "retain" the compression you apply with a clamp while it cures. Basically, you're adding a thermal barrier for no reason. You NEED a clamping device to exert a compressive force, just like you'd need to be PULLING on the peltier in order for it to be loaded in tension.

By the way, if your peltier dies and becomes an insulator, you're most likely not going to be able to turn off the PC in time. Have you seen how fast an AMD CPU will heat up with no cooling?

 

[kronchev]

Originally posted by titan151
Ack....

This is thermal conducting adhesive. It is fully capable of handling the required clamping pressure. It's an industrial grade product not something you buy at jo mammas. It has excelent strength in compression, and tension. For that matter probally not so bad in shear either. As for the 172 watt pelt..it is commonly used in CPU cooling aplications. Here is one example for you since it cannnt be done.

http://www.overclockers.com/tips326/

find me one written in the past 2 years please and I might consider that

I am sure you can find more examples that apply to modern cpu's. As for heat, my CPU puts out at the absolute most 75 watts (likely less). The use of a 200 watt pelt is not required it will simply add more heat to the water cooling loop and waist power. Now as for this koolance block that is god awful absolutely horrible...I will show yoiu some picttures of it working after it is complete. Also, it is easy to avoid major damage to the CPU by simply monitoring the temps. This can be done with both the mobo and an external sensor. That said if it does fail and turn into an insulator I will invoke an act of sheer genius....I'll turn the computer off. Problem solved. Now why don't chu go and talk about the world and how flat it fucking is. [/B]

did you even read what I said? TEC's are NOT 100% efficient, with a 170 you MIGHT be able to get away with it IF YOU HAVE GOOD COOLING. However, youre using a Koolance block so you will NOT have good cooling. and no, you wont be able to turn it off fast enough. do you sit at your computer constantly checking the temps and if they start to raise, will you notice in time? how many times will you overreact and shut down for no reason? its just not possible. take the heatsink off of an XP while its running, then turn it off with your lighting skills. report back on how successful you were.

 

[titan151]

ackkk,

Yes like many things they are not 100 percent effiecent. If it is only 50% effective then it will still handle the heat from my chip. I just picked up a maze 4 with a built in pelt clamp. The main reason for doing this is I have no way to mount the koolance block with the pelt and cold plate attached. This way if it doesn't work out I won't have to try and remove the pelt as the adhesive would make it almost impossible. Thus it will allow me to salvage the pelt.

As for turning off the computer in time, I have my bios set up to turn the computer off if the temp exceeds 60 degrees. I plan on turning this down somewhat further while I get it set up. Also I have seen how fast these chips heat up with nothing on them at all. It's not so fast that you can't do a little jig then flip the switch on your power supply.

And how will I power this monster beast? Heh.. not even gonna go there with this one. I just hope the solar panels get enough sun here in Seattle!!!

 

[computerpro3]

Originally posted by titan151
ackkk,

Yes like many things they are not 100 percent effiecent. If it is only 50% effective then it will still handle the heat from my chip. I just picked up a maze 4 with a built in pelt clamp. The main reason for doing this is I have no way to mount the koolance block with the pelt and cold plate attached. This way if it doesn't work out I won't have to try and remove the pelt as the adhesive would make it almost impossible. Thus it will allow me to salvage the pelt.

As for turning off the computer in time, I have my bios set up to turn the computer off if the temp exceeds 60 degrees. I plan on turning this down somewhat further while I get it set up. Also I have seen how fast these chips heat up with nothing on them at all. It's not so fast that you can't do a little jig then flip the switch on your power supply.

And how will I power this monster beast? Heh.. not even gonna go there with this one. I just hope the solar panels get enough sun here in Seattle!!!

Either this thread is a total joke aimed at kronchev or you are one admirably determined yet horribly misinformed gentleman.