Water cooling questions

[maeveth]

I am building my new system to use watercooling but I have a few questions. I'll outline what I plan on doing first before asking the questions.

I plan on using the following parts for the system. I am currently assuming a single loop
1 Heatkiller
1 Swiftech MCP655
1 Swiftech MCR320-QP-STACK
1 Koolance MB-EVX58CF (for NB/SB)
1 Koolance VID-NX285N (when it becomes available)
The rest like exactly what barbs/tubes/res I havent decided on yet.

1. Regarding waterblock materials, I know your not supposed to mix materials. However I am going to use a Heatkiller 3 for the CPU. My question is can I use Nickle coated copper parts problems w/o any problems? I am asking specifically because I am using an EVGA X58 SLI Classified and i would like to also cool the NB/SB with this http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=827.

2. Is it worth water cooling RAM? I've read its not really but I just wanted to make sure that this still holds true with i7 OCing

3. How necessary is it to have separate loops for graphics card and CPU? I mean obviously its "best" but can i get away with a single loop without any significant reduction in maximum OCing potential?

4. Do i need to use a pump with speed controller, or can I just assume on at max is best? Can i use something like http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/product_info.php?product_id=751 with the swiftech pump?

5. What diameter tubing is the best to go with?

To sum up the rest of the hardware
Coolermaster Cosmos S
Intel i7 920
EVGA X58 SLI Classified
EVGA GTX285 2GB
12GB Corsair Dominator

 

[lollerskater69]

Try to avoid Koolance products. Their quality tends to be subpar compaired to other companies.

I like 7/16ID over 1/2ID barbs. Thicker the tubing the better as is can generally take bends easier.

Ram isn't worth WC.

Nickel and copper is fine. Aluminum and copper is not.

The MCP655 is a great pump you don't need a controller. If it is a MCP355-b, you can't control it. If it is a vario,anywhere from selling 3-5 is fine.

 

[crazjayz]

Try to avoid Koolance products. Their quality tends to be subpar compaired to other companies.

I have to disagree here. Quality is just as good as other companies with solid customer service to boot.

Just make sure not to mix metals, which Koolance was notorious for in the past.

 

[Archmage]

I would actually say that since the release of the Koolance 350 block, koolance has changed its reputation. They have some decent products.

I wouldn't mix Al/Cu, but that's the only combination I'd worry about.

Watercooling RAM is not worthwhile. Get some well-directed airflow over the RAM and you might get a slightly higher overclock.

You can run dual loops using a single D5 pump and the Primochill typhoon 3 (and achieve excellent flow). This is easily the setup I'd use. I'd read through this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228962

You can use 7/16 ID for safety, but it'll be tight (that's the point of course). 1/2" ID is fine with clamps or compression fittings. I prefer clamps and 1/2" for highest flow.

Edit: I must say you have plans for one expensive WC setup. I think that cooling the CPU and GPU(s) can be worthwhile, but after that meh... I'd just make sure I have good case airflow.

 

[getyasome]

I can tell you from my own experience trying to get 1/2ID compression fittings or barbs for the HEATKILLER® CPU Rev3.0 was a long haul.. All the 1/2ID compression fittings I've tried are just to large in width to get both to screw on. The 1/2ID barbs I could only use Stainless Steel Worm-Drive Hose Clamps , Herbie Clips were to large to get both on also and the Worm-Drive Hose Clamps are not to appealing to look at.

But thanks to ekuest he sent me in the right direction. These work great and look good also.

Feser Rotary Compression Fitting G1/4 Thread - 1/2in ID - 3/4in OD - High Flow:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/ferocofig1th.html

This is assuming you go with 1/2" ID (3/4"OD) Anti-Kink Tubing

Inner Diameter (ID): 1.2"
12.70mm
Wall Thickness (WT): 1/8"
3.18mm
Outer Diameter (OD): 3/4"
19.06mm

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...ink_Tubing_-_UV_Acid_Green.html?tl=g30c99s172

Thanks to lollerskater69 for this bit of info he passed on to me..The MCP355 is actually better than the MCP655. All you need is an aftermarket top and that thing can rock. The head pressure is significantly better.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...eplacement_Top_w_LED_Port.html?tl=g30c107s156

 

[Mr. Baz]

Why no love for DangerDen?
Also, I see no reason to cool the NB/SB unless you are just going for looks.
No, there is not really any reason to cool your RAM with an i7 setup.

1/2" tubing is perfectly fine. If you are worried with bends, then get Tygon tubing.

That radiator you listed is only a single-pass. The Black Ice Xtreme III is a dual-pass triple 120 rad.

1. Nickel plating is fine. Here is an article I wrote a long-ass time ago: http://63.74.115.230/tips1041/

2. RAM is not as important in i7 overclocking.

3. A single loop with that single-pass radiator isn't going to cut it. Maybe with a dual-pass radiator.

4. You don't NEED a variable speed pump. If you have the money it wouldn't hurt, but it isn't neccessary.

5. 1/2" is the easiest/best to work with. Just buy quality matierals like Tyogon tubing and you won't have to worry about kinks.

 

[maeveth]

Thanks for the replys so far guys

That radiator you listed is only a single-pass. The Black Ice Xtreme III is a dual-pass triple 120 rad.

In regards to this according to FrozenCPU's site the specs for MCR320 says that its dual-pass http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...diator_-_Black_MCR320-QP-K.html?tl=g30c95s161 Is this wrong? I am not by any means stuck on the Swiftech radiator but I just want to find the best possible cooling performance.

Speaking of cooling performance, radiator fans. Back last time I was doing a serious cooling project several years ago the top was Scythe S-FLEX or Mineba, does this still hold true?

You can run dual loops using a single D5 pump and the Primochill typhoon 3 (and achieve excellent flow). This is easily the setup I'd use. I'd read through this thread: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228962

What exactly is the pattern here? LIke what order are parts in and how are they connected? Do you use a splitter out of the pump/res?

 

[Mr. Baz]

Thanks for the replys so far guys


In regards to this according to FrozenCPU's site the specs for MCR320 says that its dual-pass http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5...diator_-_Black_MCR320-QP-K.html?tl=g30c95s161 Is this wrong? I am not by any means stuck on the Swiftech radiator but I just want to find the best possible cooling performance.

Speaking of cooling performance, radiator fans. Back last time I was doing a serious cooling project several years ago the top was Scythe S-FLEX or Mineba, does this still hold true?


What exactly is the pattern here? LIke what order are parts in and how are they connected? Do you use a splitter out of the pump/res?

Looks like it is a dual-pass, just not the same as other standard dual pass radiators. That one you listed is slimmer compared to other standard dual-pass rads. It isn't much slimmer than standard I guess. Just the picture makes it look different. 1.3" vs 1.77" isn't too much of a difference I guess.

Noctua makes some really awesome fans. There was another one released just recently that was very similar in performance to the Noctua fan.

 

[Archmage]

T

What exactly is the pattern here? LIke what order are parts in and how are they connected? Do you use a splitter out of the pump/res?

The reservoir is actually dual expansion chambers for the pump's inlet and outlet. One chamber serves as the new high-volume inlet for the pump. This chamber is fed by 2 inlet lines. The other chamber is the pump's outlet, which feeds 2 outlet lines. Because there are no splitters, and the loops are instead freely running in parallel off the same pump, the pressure-drop is lowered, and the flow through the system is increased. In large part, this design exploits the efficiency curve of the D5, which is great past the typical 3GPM+ that this setup will run. This is really a pump MOD, much like the new pump-tops we see.

To drain the system, the case is placed on its back side, making the reservoir the highest point in the loop if you choose to utilize the standard double drive-bay mounting. There are 2 ports on the front.

T3 = Typhoon 3, for reference.

A few helpful single posts (all from that same T3 thread) to explain:

D5 PQ curves: http://www.skinneelabs.com/Pumps/D5/D5-Tops-main.html

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3891598&postcount=25 - VAPOR explaining the T3 concept

Vapor's Math: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3893625&postcount=76

T3 designer BoxGods w/ pics : http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3909763&postcount=185

Complaint over ugly bonding material: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3910637&postcount=197

real world prelim results: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3913012&postcount=253

* It looks like the T3 has some quirks here and there... but all I care about is function really.

About radiators:

stacked MCR320 radiators: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206829

Triple radiator roundup: http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=220593

Skinnee's triple radiator roundup: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229758 (he also has a stacked mcr320 performance estimate) - this is also posted on his site

Martin's detailed MCR320 review: http://martin.skinneelabs.com/SwiftechMCR320-Review.html

Summary: Your radiator choice is one of the best Bang for the Buck. You'll get slightly lower temps with 2 separate MCR320's, but if your goal is to save space, then you've made a good choice.
The common recommendation for low RPM fans is the XSPC RX series (less expensive than TFC Rads).

About fans:

Martin's latest fan test: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=223391

The Gentle Typhoon seems to be one of the new boners for quiet / Radiators.
Petra's Yate Loons are still standard for cheap (mounted vertically only).
S-Flex is still considered good.

 

[maeveth]

Okay so I think I've gotten everything straight now, just a few more questions.

Is there any need to have flow indicators or temperature monitors inline to monitor the system? Are there any downsides to using them such as decreased flow rate/pressure?

As far as coolant goes, I know you can just use Distilled Water with some Biocide in it or premixed stuff. Can I use other fluids such as mineral oil? Can the D5 pump even handle something that viscous?

Once I finish construction I'll be sure to post pictures.

 

[12 Axes]

Just stick with distilled water. It performs better, is cheaper, and easier to get than anything else.

No need for the flow indicator imo. You will be able to see the flow really well when you are bleeding the system. Beyond that, I don't think twice about leaving my system running when I leave the house. The current pumps available are super reliable. If you want insurance just set your power management to shutdown at 90c.

Unless you plan on expiramenting with your set up. like changing blocks, rads, fans, or rad position. Your water temp isn't going to change at all. I've used them before, and it can be neat to know all that stuff, but you can tell whats going on just by looking at your system temps. I prefer a much more simple setup nowadays.

 

[maeveth]

Okay thanks.

One more thing, running dual loops for the CPU and GPU, do i need to use a second radiator or is there a way to use a single rad to cool both loops?

 

[magoo]

My two cents worth here.
If all you are cooling is one cpu and one GPU, a single loop with ONE 120.3 radiator will be fine.
One of the best coolants to use is plain distilled water and silver coils. You can't just use distilled water, plain , or you'll have algae in the water in no time flat. You can get .99 pure silver 1/8" wide on ebay for 8 bucks a foot. Make two 5 inch coils by wraping the silver around a sharpie barrell and drop the coil into the reservoir. Read about that here:http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2088

Koolance.......tread carefully.....I prefer BitsPower....a little more expensive but well worth it. For the Classified NB, the two most popular coolers are the BitsPower and the EK coolers.
My recommendation for the CPU is the HeatKiller 1366 3.0

As far as hose goes......I use 3/8", and I don't know why..........just started out that way and now all my compression fittings are 3/8" and too expensive to replace......so I use 3/8" and coolsleeves in areas of tight bends.......currently I'm using Black Tygon 3/8ID 1/2"OD tubing....because I felt like it.

Shop at Sidewindercomputers.com and compare prices. Generally Sidewinder can beat almost everybody and their shipping is cheaper as well.
There are some really excellent guys at realredraider.com who you can ask advice of as far as watercooling goes. They can be a bit cranky every once in a while, but they know their shit and will give you good advice.

 

[maeveth]

One of the best coolants to use is plain distilled water and silver coils. You can't just use distilled water, plain , or you'll have algae in the water in no time flat. You can get .99 pure silver 1/8" wide on ebay for 8 bucks a foot. Make two 5 inch coils by wraping the silver around a sharpie barrell and drop the coil into the reservoir. Read about that here:http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2088

Silver takes the place of biocide?

 

[magoo]

Silver takes the place of biocide?

Yes, the silver ion in solution IS a biocidal......works great, fairly cheap,compatible with cooling equipment, and essentially lasts forever. What's not to like. (plus it's fun to make the curly-Qs............)
Also you don't have to add any shit that is colored and it won't stain the hose.......if you want color, buy colored hose.

 

[Bigbacon]

My two cents worth here.
If all you are cooling is one cpu and one GPU, a single loop with ONE 120.3 radiator will be fine.
One of the best coolants to use is plain distilled water and silver coils. You can't just use distilled water, plain , or you'll have algae in the water in no time flat. You can get .99 pure silver 1/8" wide on ebay for 8 bucks a foot. Make two 5 inch coils by wraping the silver around a sharpie barrell and drop the coil into the reservoir. Read about that here:http://www.realredraider.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2088

Koolance.......tread carefully.....I prefer BitsPower....a little more expensive but well worth it. For the Classified NB, the two most popular coolers are the BitsPower and the EK coolers.
My recommendation for the CPU is the HeatKiller 1366 3.0

As far as hose goes......I use 3/8", and I don't know why..........just started out that way and now all my compression fittings are 3/8" and too expensive to replace......so I use 3/8" and coolsleeves in areas of tight bends.......currently I'm using Black Tygon 3/8ID 1/2"OD tubing....because I felt like it.

Shop at Sidewindercomputers.com and compare prices. Generally Sidewinder can beat almost everybody and their shipping is cheaper as well.
There are some really excellent guys at realredraider.com who you can ask advice of as far as watercooling goes. They can be a bit cranky every once in a while, but they know their shit and will give you good advice.

I will pretty much second all this...

you don't need more than a 3x120 rad and a single loop. Tubing size in more of a preference for the user. (I use 3/8ID also)

You could also get something like PTNuke if you don't use the coils.

 

[magoo]

I will pretty much second all this...

you don't need more than a 3x120 rad and a single loop. Tubing size in more of a preference for the user. (I use 3/8ID also)

You could also get something like PTNuke if you don't use the coils.

Another good choice is concentrated iodine solution......providone iodine as hospitals use, two or three drops per liter.......that way the distilled won't turn color.