Want to submerge your PC?

lesman said:
Really? I'd like some....I wonder if it's good for you...I mean, the extra crap in tap water is supposed to "good" for you, as it contains certain minerals and whatnot....hmm, I'll think about picking some up.....I wonder what differences it would make if I drank that instead of tap or normal bottled water... :confused:
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not reccomended for daily usage.
 
while we're on the topic of extremely pure water. I've heard that very pure water also has a very funny boiling characteristics. Like say you heat it to very high temps, well past boiling, then throw in some salt or sugar or other impurity and it rapidly boils/expands/semi explodes. Is there any truth to this?
 
Decker87 said:
No. pure water has mainly free H ions and OH ions.
To be exact, pure water has a resistivity of about 1.8 * 10^5 ohm-m, making it around 3000 times more resistant to the flow of electricity than the most resistant silicon used in computers. In fact, its more close to the resistivity of glass.
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I don't think this is right. All the electronegative Oxygen's would pull in the Hydrogen's. Although some free Hydrogen molecules may exist in a transition state on paper, i don't think your correct. Hydronium (H30+) is a proven molecule. You can't think of H+ as a free molecule. Hydrogen is more stable bonded to Oxygen, via H20 or via a +1 on the Oxygen.
So if free H ions float around i would then guess we have free Oxygen ions floating around too..?

Hydrogen bonding is what makes water. Your saying you would break a hydrogen bond.
*Hydrogen bonds can be broken yes, but not under normal circumstances.
*No need for a lesson in Radioactivity please.
 
wtiger said:
while we're on the topic of extremely pure water. I've heard that very pure water also has a very funny boiling characteristics. Like say you heat it to very high temps, well past boiling, then throw in some salt or sugar or other impurity and it rapidly boils/expands/semi explodes. Is there any truth to this?
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Pure water (at normal condtions 765/25) will boil at its normal values. Yes, adding solutes to the water can alter the physical properties of water, but not by much. A few degrees. Water will only dissolve so much salt before it can't take anymore, you can boil off the water still but my guess is it would be less than 5 C difference.
 
wtiger said:
while we're on the topic of extremely pure water. I've heard that very pure water also has a very funny boiling characteristics. Like say you heat it to very high temps, well past boiling, then throw in some salt or sugar or other impurity and it rapidly boils/expands/semi explodes. Is there any truth to this?
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yes, you can actually superheat water, but it can be dangerous and people have gotten burned. the only way it can be achieved is using a microwave and a new, very clean glass.

what happens is the impurities in water and the container it is "cooked in" is what causes the bubbles you see in boiling water. the microwave heats the water past the boiling point, then when an object is put in the superheated water the bubbles form and the water "explodes"
 
pstang said:
yes, you can actually superheat water, but it can be dangerous and people have gotten burned. the only way it can be achieved is using a microwave and a new, very clean glass.

what happens is the impurities in water and the container it is "cooked in" is what causes the bubbles you see in boiling water. the microwave heats the water past the boiling point, then when an object is put in the superheated water the bubbles form and the water "explodes"
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I thought the bubbles were the simple chemical change that happens to water when its boiled...you know, water vapor....I thought it was pockets of "chemical change" escaping to the top as water is a lot heavier than water vapor and it needs a place to go...
 
gclg2000 said:
I don't think this is right. All the electronegative Oxygen's would pull in the Hydrogen's. Although some free Hydrogen molecules may exist in a transition state on paper, i don't think your correct. Hydronium (H30+) is a proven molecule. You can't think of H+ as a free molecule. Hydrogen is more stable bonded to Oxygen, via H20 or via a +1 on the Oxygen.
So if free H ions float around i would then guess we have free Oxygen ions floating around too..?
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the thing is that H3O is not something that we can presentlydectect directly. each individual of H30 exists for only a very short period of time. the loosened hydrogens are quickly and constantly being passed around from molecule to molecule within the sample, so no one particular H3O exists for long enough to be easily detected.

since we can't detect it, it could be existing as H3O in that kind of arrangement, or it could be free H+ in solution.

the water superheating that people are talking about it possible. however, under household conditions, the water is only going to get a tiny bit above it's normal boiling point. you need ultra clean conditions and ultra pure water to really do the superheating trick. any dust will serve as a water vapour nucleation site, where a bubble will form. if there is no, or very little, dust then you can get water a fair bit higher than it's normal boiling point. adding some powder gives the water under those conditions a whole lot of nucleation sites all at once, and causes the water to boil very quickly/suddenly. since any kitchen/microwave is going to have at least some dust, though.......

a variation on this was used in early studies of radiation. take a container with no dust, and very clean water inside it, and then suddenly drop the pressure. the water flashes into vapour, filling the chamber with a cloud that stayes suspended for a good long while. particle radiation then leaves tracks in the clouds as it passes. they are called cloud chambers, and by combining them with electrical and magnetic fields, researchers were able to work out a lot of the properties of various types of radiation.
 
H+ will not go by itself. So if H+ were to exist's then O- will exist? Then O-'s could start making a peroxide. H+ is only represetned in the transition state. It's down to what? A single proton then right? Then we could start forming Hydrogen Gas? Or even pure oxygen?

Under normal circumstances non of this can happen.
 
lesman said:
I thought the bubbles were the simple chemical change that happens to water when its boiled...you know, water vapor....I thought it was pockets of "chemical change" escaping to the top as water is a lot heavier than water vapor and it needs a place to go...
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heres what i found on wikipedia: In physics, superheating (sometimes referred to as boiling delay) is the phenomenon in which a liquid is heated to a temperature higher than its standard boiling point, without actually boiling. This can be caused by rapidly heating a homogeneous substance while leaving it undisturbed (so as to avoid the introduction of air bubbles at nucleation sites).

Because a superheated fluid is the result of artificial circumstances, it is metastable, and is disrupted as soon as the circumstances abate, leading to the liquid boiling very suddenly and violently—a very dangerous situation. Superheating is sometimes a concern with microwave ovens, some of which can quickly heat water without physical disturbance. A person agitating a container full of superheated water by attempting to remove it from a microwave will likely be scalded.

go to the sight and look at the videos they are pretty cool especially the university of virginia experiments 13-15: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superheating
 
gclg2000 said:
H+ will not go by itself. If H+ exist's then O- will exist.
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http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/lee-water-research.html

okay, so since my prof last updated his course materials they have made it definate.

like i said, each H3O molecule only exists for a really short span of time, and is hard to detect as a result.

i was just saying that you can't be sure if you can't actually detect it, regardless of what you think makes sense.
 
From you article...

Lee and his colleagues mixed hydrogen ions with trace amounts of water in a molecular beam to form ionic clusters containing one, two, or three water molecules attached to each ion of hydronium. The beam was then expanded into a vacuum to freeze the unstable clusters into formation. Light from a tunable infrared laser was used to selectively excite the hydrogen bond vibrations of whatever type of cluster the researchers wished to study. A mass spectrometer fed the excited clusters into a radio frequency ion trap where a second laser beam was used to break them up through the "dissociation" of their bonds. The resulting fragment ions were then detected and counted in a second mass spectrometer to obtain an infrared spectrum that could be compared to theoretical predictions.

Trying to stick on the ORIGINAL question about water brought up. It won't happen normally w/ water by itself. And it will def not happen if you try to submerge your PC in it.

The above is a pretty fare out experinemnt too by the way..
 
dude, the article is saying that you were right, and the there is H3O forming in the water as opposed to free H+

the added hydrogen generate additional H3O, and did not remain as free hydrogen.

you were right, the ions in water are H3O+ and OH- as opposed to H+ and OH-.
 
lesman said:
Really? I'd like some....I wonder if it's good for you...I mean, the extra crap in tap water is supposed to "good" for you, as it contains certain minerals and whatnot....hmm, I'll think about picking some up.....I wonder what differences it would make if I drank that instead of tap or normal bottled water... :confused:
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Tap water is very inpure, Thats why it has taste (Yes water has a taste, thats how you know its water). I also have drank Pure water, VERY refreshing but its flavorless.

Inpure water is much better for you than pure water because of all the minerals, salts and what not.
 
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