Wait for M2?

[agmarley]

I am in the market for a new no holds bar computer. Should I wait for AMD to go the DDR-2 route or just plunge in now and get the FX-60. The only con I can forsee is the inability to upgrade later. Any thoughts would be helpful.

 

[wee96]

wait till AM2 is out then buy 939, for pricing. AM2 so far looks boring and not worth it.

 

[empoy]

just wait for Conroe

 

[J32P2006]

just don't upgrade anymore, it's the end of the world

 

[SSE4]

I am in the market for a new no holds bar computer. Should I wait for AMD to go the DDR-2 route or just plunge in now and get the FX-60. The only con I can forsee is the inability to upgrade later. Any thoughts would be helpful.

To be honest if you're willing to go all out and get yourself an FX-60, you may want to wait for an upgrade to the upcoming Intel Conroe, which will topple the FX-60 system you intend to buy now, and in reality it's only a small wait.

That said, if you're dead set on AMD, I still agree with Wee96 in waiting for AM2 to see how pricing handles itself. There are other alternatives however, such as looking for a dual-core Opteron (If you're a fan of overclocking) since they seem to be good performance for what you spend. You can get very good performance and probably overclock (Rather easily) to FX-60 speeds with little or no trouble, and save yourself money doing so - instead, you can invest the excess money you would have spent on an FX-60 and put it into a better motherboard, better RAM, solid cooling, and a good PSU to help you in your overclocking.

 

[empoy]

only 3 months til Conroe starts production

 

[Rocco123]

To be honest if you're willing to go all out and get yourself an FX-60, you may want to wait for an upgrade to the upcoming Intel Conroe, which will topple the FX-60 system you intend to buy now, and in reality it's only a small wait.

That said, if you're dead set on AMD, I still agree with Wee96 in waiting for AM2 to see how pricing handles itself. There are other alternatives however, such as looking for a dual-core Opteron (If you're a fan of overclocking) since they seem to be good performance for what you spend. You can get very good performance and probably overclock (Rather easily) to FX-60 speeds with little or no trouble, and save yourself money doing so - instead, you can invest the excess money you would have spent on an FX-60 and put it into a better motherboard, better RAM, solid cooling, and a good PSU to help you in your overclocking.

I agree. FX60s are fast, but you can easily buy, for example, an Opteron 165 and overclock the crap out of it. I've heard that most people reach FX60 speeds on default voltage, and sometimes faster. At an almost 1/3 of the cost of an FX60.

Conroe won't be out for at least a few months (Q3 2006), and IMO 3 months is not a "short wait". Then you could say that AMD will fire back with the K8L in 2007 and absolutely stomp the Conroe in FPU (almost double the FPU of the current K8 platform). Back and forth, back and forth.

My opinion is that if you want something fast, and unless there is something totally revolutionary only a week or so away, buy what you want NOW. You won't have the fastest system forever because something more great will come out months later.

 

[empoy]

Then you could say that AMD will fire back with the K8L in 2007 and absolutely stomp the Conroe in FPU (almost double the FPU of the current K8 platform). Back and forth, back and forth.

this is a big IF. the way AMD is executing right now, that timeframe should be early 2008.
we must also remember that successor to Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are already in various stages of development

 

[Rocco123]

this is a big IF. the way AMD is executing right now, that timeframe should be early 2008.
we must also remember that successor to Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest are already in various stages of development

And proves my point even further , back and forth, back and forth.

 

[empoy]

Intel is now making sure that back and forth WILL NOT happen.

 

[SSE4]

I agree. FX60s are fast, but you can easily buy, for example, an Opteron 165 and overclock the crap out of it. I've heard that most people reach FX60 speeds on default voltage, and sometimes faster. At an almost 1/3 of the cost of an FX60.

Conroe won't be out for at least a few months (Q3 2006), and IMO 3 months is not a "short wait". Then you could say that AMD will fire back with the K8L in 2007 and absolutely stomp the Conroe in FPU (almost double the FPU of the current K8 platform). Back and forth, back and forth.

My opinion is that if you want something fast, and unless there is something totally revolutionary only a week or so away, buy what you want NOW. You won't have the fastest system forever because something more great will come out months later.

True I mean, I guess it depends on what you call a short wait or not. Literally speaking, we tend to be accustomed to "Buy something, and 6 months later it's old." So personally I guess I feel that if he has the money, nothing's stopping him from getting himself a fantastic system - or if he's an overclocker, there's nothing stopping him from easily reaching FX-60 power with half the money spent. But I guess I'm just more conservative with my money So personally if I saw something like Conroe around the corner, I'd wait. But we're all different so that's definitely a longer wait to some than to others.

Bottom line - What he said. An Opteron overclocked (Quite easily too, from what I hear) with a good hs/f could get you just as far as an FX-60, and for a fraction of the cost... And like I said before, you could spend that money on other components to easily help you get there, putting you closer to the current top-of-the-line faster than a wait for Conroe. However if the wait isn't long to you, you could wait for Conroe. Personally I've been glancing looks at Opteron but holding my wallet - and with Conroe coming, I just find it hard to justify my purchase now when I know I could have better if I just wait a little longer. But if you want the best now - there's no doubt, pick yourself up an Opteron - I haven't heard many complaints.

 

[Rocco123]

Hey good idea. Take the difference between an Opty 165 and an FX60 and use it to buy, let's say, an extra 7900 GTX for SLI, or an x1900xt/crossfire if that's your thing.

Hell, even if you bough an Opty 175 (about 500 dollars), you'd still save 500 dollars (FX60 is over 1000), and there's only a 400 Mhz difference (you can easily make that up in OCing). IMO, SLI or Crossfire would have a bigger impact that 400 measly clocks. That is, if gaming is what this machine is doing

 

[Rocco123]

Intel is now making sure that back and forth WILL NOT happen.

You live in a dream world. The competetive nature of microprocessors has existed for years. As long as AMD exists, this will continue to happen. You're naive to think that Intel will simply dominate forever.

 

[J32P2006]

You live in a dream world. The competetive nature of microprocessors has existed for years. As long as AMD exists, this will continue to happen. You're naive to think that Intel will simply dominate forever.

for sure

 

[empoy]

let's just say that I have an insider information on what Intel is cooking up as the successor to Conroe/Merom. And its going to be released next year

 

[Ockie]

If you wait for the next best thing then you will never have a computer... you wait for the conroe, then you might just aswell wait for the quad cores, you wait for the quad cores, then you might just aswell wait for the next big amd hit... so it goes on and on.


Buy now, don't look back and enjoy your hardware.

 

[Rocco123]

let's just say that I have an insider information on what Intel is cooking up as the successor to Conroe/Merom. And its going to be released next year

My point is: Do you have that same insider information on what AMD has in store? What if I said that AMD had a 10nm 20 Ghz processor slated for 2009? What if Intel counters with a chip that is A.I. compatible? WHO KNOWS!!!!!

Don't make it seem like you know exactly what Intel has cooking. The people that DO know are smart enough not to divulge this information to the public, and not risk getting fired and/or sued by Intel. There are already rumors circling the web about post-Conroe successors, and this has not been confirmed by Intel. They will let us all know when they are damn good and ready.

 

[SSE4]

If you wait for the next best thing then you will never have a computer... you wait for the conroe, then you might just aswell wait for the quad cores, you wait for the quad cores, then you might just aswell wait for the next big amd hit... so it goes on and on.


Buy now, don't look back and enjoy your hardware.

Time comparisons. You wait for Conroe in about 4 months time and you have something that will beat your current system and give you a little more life overall. You buy now, 4 months down the road everyone who waited that little bit has something better than you at half the price. "Oops." That'd be the road for the FX-60 anyway - it's true that if he went the Opteron route like Rocco and I were saying, the difference might not be so big - but it'll be there. Someone who's willing to buy an FX-60 right now has reason to wait - he could have gone all out and bought an FX-60 right now... Or an XE Conroe later.

Hardware is infinitely easier to enjoy when you can rest easy knowing you have the best for more than 4 months to come - buying right on the verge of something better coming is foolhardy at best. Although to be honest, if you have the money, some say you should flaunt it. It all depends on how conservative you are. No one's saying wait for quad cores - but to wait four months for a nice upgrade? Come on. Lots of people told new AMD buyers to wait the few months for Venice - that it'd be worth the wait, and in quite a few ways it was for most. Now for Conroe it's like "Pff, live in the moment my friend. Buy!" I think if someone is looking to get in the market at the top, he has the right to know if something better is coming in 4 months.

With all that drivel done with - it's his money and his choice, and he'll do what he wants with it. If he doesn't want to wait, he'll still get a damn nice system regardless. A 2.9GHz Opteron would be nice.

I mean if you had the choice of buying an Athlon XP or waiting four months for the AMD64, I think quite a few would have been pleased with the wait. But that's just me.

 

[dr_dirtnap]

My point is: Do you have that same insider information on what AMD has in store? What if I said that AMD had a 10nm 20 Ghz processor slated for 2009? What if Intel counters with a chip that is A.I. compatible? WHO KNOWS!!!!!

Don't make it seem like you know exactly what Intel has cooking. The people that DO know are smart enough not to divulge this information to the public, and not risk getting fired and/or sued by Intel. There are already rumors circling the web about post-Conroe successors, and this has not been confirmed by Intel. They will let us all know when they are damn good and ready.

I am pretty sure Empoy knows what Intel is 'cooking' since he works for intel.

To the OP, I would not wait for new technology to build your new system, although I don't think the the FX is worth the money. Think what your upgrade cycle is. Do you upgrade every six months, one year, two years? Even if you want to wait until AM2 supporting DDR-2 is out, in a few months there will be faster DDR-2 with lower latencies and maybe a new chipset.

 

[Super Mario]

Hey good idea. Take the difference between an Opty 165 and an FX60 and use it to buy, let's say, an extra 7900 GTX for SLI, or an x1900xt/crossfire if that's your thing.

Hell, even if you bough an Opty 175 (about 500 dollars), you'd still save 500 dollars (FX60 is over 1000), and there's only a 400 Mhz difference (you can easily make that up in OCing). IMO, SLI or Crossfire would have a bigger impact that 400 measly clocks. That is, if gaming is what this machine is doing

I just purchased an Opteron 175 thinking the same thing. I also heard the socket 939 dual core Opterons are excatly the same as the Athlon 64 X2 counter parts, except that they are just more tested for server class quality. SO I thought that would help with overclocking.

Boy were the results disappointing. I purchased the Opteron 175 instead of the 170 because I wanted the higher multiplier to give me a shot at 2.7GHz at 250 FSB. If I go above 250, I am limited by the LTD multiplier and it won't be stable if the Hyper transport is over 1000MHz. And 250 * 4 = 1000. I also don't want to lower it because performance suffers when the hypertransport is less than 1000MHz. You are very limited by the LTD multipler. So if you want to maintain 1000MHz hypertransport, you have to set it up a around 200 * 5 or around 250 * 4. I can't get it to run stable even at 1.5V at 250*10.5 for 2625MH. I am extremely disappointed with the overclock ability of the Opteron 175 I purchased that I had high hopes for obtaining a solid 2.7GHz to 2.8GHz overclock.

The motherboard is an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium with the latest 1009 BIOS. I have a SeaSonic 600WATT S12 PSU. I have an XP-120 heatsink with a 58CFM airflow fan on the CPU. My RAM is OCZ PC4000 2*1GB DIMMs. So I assume the rest of my system is totally stable. It just seems the overclockabibility of the Opteron 175 I received is extremely disappointing.

 

[SSE4]

I just purchased an Opteron 175 thinking the same thing. I also heard the socket 939 dual core Opterons are excatly the same as the Athlon 64 X2 counter parts, except that they are just more tested for server class quality. SO I thought that would help with overclocking.

Boy were the results disappointing. I purchased the Opteron 175 instead of the 170 because I wanted the higher multiplier to give me a shot at 2.7GHz at 250 FSB. If I go above 250, I am limited by the LTD multiplier and it won't be stable if the Hyper transport is over 1000MHz. And 250*4 = 1000. I also don't wnat to lower it because performance suffers when the hypertransport is less than 1000MHz. I can't get it to run stable even at 1.5V at 250*10.5 for 2625MH. I am extremely disappointed with the overclock ability of the Opteron 175 I purchased that I had high hopes for obtaining a solid 2.7GHz to 2.8GHz overclock.

The motherboard is an ASUS A8N-SLI Premium with the latest 1009 BIOS. I have a SeaSonic 600WATT S12 PSU. I have an XP-120 heatsink with a 58CFM airflow fan on the CPU. My RAM is OCZ PC4000 2*1GB DIMMs. So I assume the rest of my system is totally stable. It just seems the overclockabibility of the Opteron 175 I received is extremely disappointing.

There's always that uncertainty regarding it - not all are created equal, and it goes without saying that not everyone will get the same results. But the chances are consistently higher (Nearly to an assumed average) with Opterons.

 

[Super Mario]

There's always that uncertainty regarding it - not all are created equal, and it goes without saying that not everyone will get the same results. But the chances are consistently higher (Nearly to an assumed average) with Opterons.

What about an Opteron 175 vs an Athlon 64 X2 FX-60? The Athlon 64 X2 FX-60 is clocked at a a defualt of 2.6GHz, but it is also super expensive.

If I purchased an Athlon 64 FX-60, what are the odds that I will be able to successfully overclock it to 3GHz or higher with good air cooling

Also, what steppings of the Opteron 175 overclock the best and what place could I purchase from that will tell you the steppings of each CPU sold?

 

[empoy]

wait for M2 for 3-5% performance increase