Wait for ivy bridge

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jadeite

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I am mainly looking at mini-ITX socket 1155.Sandy bridge is a nice processor line, but todays motherboard offerings have too many weaknesses. By the time all of todays mobo issues are worked out it will time for the ivy bridge 22nm dye shrink that will give a 20% performance boost. USB3 will be native with the upcoming panther point chipset, not like today where there are just a few USB3/SATA III ports glued on as a afterthought for show value to a build that otherwise has tons of USB2 & SATA II ports. PCI Express 3 will be another worthwhile benefit. These are among a list of many other well known weak areas, but within about a year the transition to good motherboards should happen. And no this isn't a case of things always improve so anytime is a good time to build. Todays SFF mobo's have been stagnant far too long and have too many glaring deficiencies. It's a shame when there are such nice Sandy Bridge CPU's.
 
Don't say that! The truth is unbearable =( I just purchased an itx board and an i5 2500.

You make excellent points. But for many of us, the wait is too difficult. ;) Isn't 20% performance boost being unrealistically optimistic, though?
 
Well if a person has a good enough system, it's pretty much always worth it to wait. On the other hand, I could really care less if USB3 and SATA 3 are native or not... so long as they work.
 
Yawn. This has nothing to do with waiting for the next thing or the next thing or the next thing blah blah blah. I thought I spelled that out clearly in the initial post which was intended to ward off the usual stupid regurgitation of that old response, but it didn't work. So let's recap this again.

Leading up to its release, Sandy Bridge appeared to be a very good platform, but glaring weaknesses in the mobos have made it undesirable for many reasons. Consider that SFF/mini-ITX future expansion possibilities are extremely limited so among other things, having insufficient USB3 ports on the front panel, back panel, and internal means building a system that will have a problematic plagued future just like systems that used to have a mixture of USB 1 & 2 ports became horrible to deal with. By the Ivy Bridge time frame all the glaring issues look like they will be resolved and building a system will be in very good shape.
 
Considering that they're are no P67 mitx boards even out yet... waiting is the name of the game right now.
 
I say if it does what you need over 90% of the time, then it works just fine. Other wise I would have several cars-truck, van, SUV. race car,bus and economy car just so every transportation contingent would be covered. When Ivy bridge is released I am sure there will something it doesnt have that the next iteration will. And it will always be so. You will always have to weigh what you need vs what you want vs when you can get it.
Remember-Just wait til next years model :)
 
Besides, wouldnt it just suck if you waited for Ivy Bridge, only to discover that since its the flagship chip that no one makes an ITX board for it. Just like there isnt a 1366 ITX board.
 
jadeite said:
USB3 will be native with the upcoming panther point chipset, not like today where there are just a few USB3/SATA III ports glued on as a afterthought for show value to a build that otherwise has tons of USB2 & SATA II ports. PCI Express 3 will be another worthwhile benefit. These are among a list of many other well known weak areas, but within about a year the transition to good motherboards should happen. And no this isn't a case of things always improve so anytime is a good time to build. Todays SFF mobo's have been stagnant far too long and have too many glaring deficiencies.
Click to expand...

Why are you pointing out SFF mobos? Regular socket 1155 ATX mobos have the same problems of no PCIe3, no native USB3, few native SATA6G. It is a chipset limitation, not a SFF limitation.

Stagnant? Were you paying attention to SFF when the only ITX boards use VIA CPUs? Remember the excitement of Intel coming out with the first under-$100 ITX board with a Celeron onboard? How much teeth were gnashed when Zotac came out with the first mass market desktop ITX boards that used socketed CPUs, only to put PCIe x1 slots on them?

Baby steps, just baby steps.
 
When I set up my first 1155 skt, which was only an i3-2100. I was thinking, this thing is so fast, it's ridiculous...:). How much faster does a pc need to be? Sata III, the Gigabyte I have is capable of this? I don't have a drive fast enough to use it - yet. Who uses USB3? I don't, but if i did...would I be able to type faster? Move my mouse around a little smoother on the desktop? These are the only uses I have for usb ports. Well...and the printer I suppose, but I rarely use it. PCI-e 3.0? Not even worth the discussion at this point...

Stagnant? Glaring deficiencies? I don't see it. I was actually impressed by the array of motherboard manufacturers/options this go around, I had a tough time deciding...ECS, Foxconn, Asrock, Intel, Gigabyte, Asus...seems they're all onboard the bus.

No. I see a steady acceleration up the demand curve for mini-itx and I'm loving every minute of it.

If you're looking for something to complain about...point your anger at the case makers. These guys need to get off their duffs and start throwing together some cases with at least a hint of innovation.

Speaking of regurgitation...try having to listen to this same argument for 20 years. Every time a new socket comes out and all the new doo-dads aren't perfect yet...here we go. Same with the guys sitting there with their 1156 board thinking I don't have USB 3/SATA3...truth is..I don't think they need either.

Best,

Liquid Cool
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Liquid Cool said:
When I set up my first 1155 skt, which was only an i3-2100. I was thinking, this thing is so fast, it's ridiculous...:). How much faster does a pc need to be? Sata III, the Gigabyte I have is capable of this? I don't have a drive fast enough to use it - yet. Who uses USB3? I don't, but if i did...would I be able to type faster? Move my mouse around a little smoother on the desktop? These are the only uses I have for usb ports. Well...and the printer I suppose, but I rarely use it. PCI-e 3.0? Not even worth the discussion at this point...

Stagnant? Glaring deficiencies? I don't see it. I was actually impressed by the array of motherboard manufacturers/options this go around, I had a tough time deciding...ECS, Foxconn, Asrock, Intel, Gigabyte, Asus...seems they're all onboard the bus.

No. I see a steady acceleration up the demand curve for mini-itx and I'm loving every minute of it.

If you're looking for something to complain about...point your anger at the case makers. These guys need to get off their duffs and start throwing together some cases with at least a hint of innovation.

Speaking of regurgitation...try having to listen to this same argument for 20 years. Every time a new socket comes out and all the new doo-dads aren't perfect yet...here we go. Same with the guys sitting there with their 1156 board thinking I don't have USB 3/SATA3...truth is..I don't think they need either.

Best,

Liquid Cool
Click to expand...

I'd say most of the "stagnation" in the mitx catagory comes from the lack of "high-end" features for enthusiasts. 8+2 CPU phase change, good overclocking motherboards, and boards with good cpu/ram/pci-e placement. I'm talking specifically about 1155 mitx boards. You didn't run into this issue though since you didn't opt to overclock.

And while I agree mostly with your USB3 argument, I think it would be real nice to have especially for people who have SANs that use RAID. You could actually use the extra throughput.
 
Once you wait for Ivy Bridge and buy it, wouldn't they announce another socket for the next year?
 
Ivy Bridge is a joke. I'm waiting for USB 4, PCIe 4.0 and everything else that should be out in the not too far future. Maybe I should just wait even more since I know something will be even better after those.
 
CrazJayz...

A few years back, I yanked my old '68 GTO out of the garage and was cruising around...I still had the old rims on it from my youth...I think they we're 15" Cragar S/S's. Anyway, I was cruising around and I saw a guy who had a Mustang with 17" rims. Whoa...they looked cool. I felt I had to have them...so I went out and found a nice set of aluminum 17" rim's and some Yoko tires and I was set...

Wasn't a few months later, I saw guys cruising around with 18's, 19's...then 20's...then 21's and some ridiculous looking 22's with rubberbands on them. I thought to myself, the worlds gone nuts.

It was then I remembered what my father always said, "That's what you want, but what do you need"?

I view my foray into the 1155 skt through those lenses, so I guess I'm stuck in my opinion. Not perfect mind you, not perfect in the least...but I feel this pc I built is more than adequate for my needs and has plenty of room to grow.

I can sympathize with the overclockers though, I used to be one. Although, two years ago, you couldn't find a pci-e slot on a mini-itx motherboard and now ?

This to me doesn't wreak of stagnation. Not in the least...

Cases on the other hand...;).

Best,

Liquid Cool
 
If you're smart you _always_ wait as long as you can hold out until you build a new machine. So it always comes down to how long you can wait. I don't see enough major issues on your list to stall me much longer (I'm running Q9650), though I am definitely going to wait for z68 as that is a major issue for me and worth waiting for.

Ivy Bridge is so far off as to be a non-issue for most people who were wanting to upgrade to SB. USB 3 non-native? Who cares.
 
Let me tell two tales:

I currently have a SG01 with E6600 that I have been running for years. It's been a good system and does well even with most of todays latest software titles and devices. I feel like I got in at a good time with the right CPU, case, and fittings. And this was no accident. Read on.

The system before that was very different. The mobo took RDRAM which was right before everything switched to DDR. RDRAM prices quickly soared and became too expensive to ever upgrade and those were the days you needed to double your ram on occasion. Ethernet was only 10/100 at a time gigabit was becoming mainstream and so the system had weak performance over the LAN that became more annoying as years went by. It was near the end of life for AGP but yet the high-end mobo only had AGP 4X but not 8X. The system was always just a little underpowered in graphics performance and I always wondered if the mobo could have taken full advantage of the 8X AGP card if it would have made a difference. The mobo also had a mixture of USB 1 & 2 ports inside and out which was a constant source of performance problems juggling in memory card readers, cameras, backup drives, and so on to the fast ports or putting up with the slow ports. Despite all these problems, this motherboard was the latest and greatest when I bought it, recommended by system builders, and made by Asus.

It was the experiences with this prior system that I learned yes, sometimes the industry can be in a bad state and one should wait for things to get ironed out before buying. I think this is why I am so happy with my E6600 build and is why I am repeating this strategy again for Ivy Bridge. It isn't a matter of waiting for "the next thing" it is a matter of taking a look to see whether a system is fit for the future. Today's Sandy Bridge mobo's are not there and now I see this assertion is confirmed by many others.
 
This debate is going nowhere. OP, you want to hear us all agree with you and that you are 100% correct and we would all stop purchasing sandy bridge and wait. Yes it will be a good chip. I should have waited another year to get a new car, waited before buying my house, and waited for the next job offer. Ya gotta know when. Good enough works.
 
good luck waiting forever. sandybridge is still fairly new and all the mini-ITX hasn't even been released yet. by the time ivy bridge comes out, a better playform will be launching just around the corner
 
Intel has hinted for some time about revolutionary technology coming with Ivy Bridge. Today they released details of what they are doing:

3-D Tri-Gate Technology for 22nm Ivy Bridge

So that's where the dramatic performance increases and power consumption decreases are coming from. In itself, a die shrink may not justify a wait, but in this case is just an added bonus for those that find todays offerings inadequate for their needs.
 
Liquid Cool said:
CrazJayz...

A few years back, I yanked my old '68 GTO out of the garage and was cruising around...I still had the old rims on it from my youth...I think they we're 15" Cragar S/S's. Anyway, I was cruising around and I saw a guy who had a Mustang with 17" rims. Whoa...they looked cool. I felt I had to have them...so I went out and found a nice set of aluminum 17" rim's and some Yoko tires and I was set...

Wasn't a few months later, I saw guys cruising around with 18's, 19's...then 20's...then 21's and some ridiculous looking 22's with rubberbands on them. I thought to myself, the worlds gone nuts.

It was then I remembered what my father always said, "That's what you want, but what do you need"?

I view my foray into the 1155 skt through those lenses, so I guess I'm stuck in my opinion. Not perfect mind you, not perfect in the least...but I feel this pc I built is more than adequate for my needs and has plenty of room to grow.

I can sympathize with the overclockers though, I used to be one. Although, two years ago, you couldn't find a pci-e slot on a mini-itx motherboard and now ?

This to me doesn't wreak of stagnation. Not in the least...

Cases on the other hand...;).

Best,

Liquid Cool
Click to expand...

Stagnation was a bad choice of words. The ITX market has improved tremendously. I remember when everything was SO-DIMM, no PCI-e (like you said), and no overclocking features.

What I really would like though is for the top manufacturers to release ITX boards at the same time as their ATX and mATX counterparts. I hate waiting for months for a premium ITX board when there are ATX and mATX ones that I could get now. I don't see why ASUS/Gigabyte/Zotac can't make an P67 board. It's literally a 1 chip change from their current H67 offerings.

jvrobert said:
If you're smart you _always_ wait as long as you can hold out until you build a new machine. So it always comes down to how long you can wait. I don't see enough major issues on your list to stall me much longer (I'm running Q9650), though I am definitely going to wait for z68 as that is a major issue for me and worth waiting for.

Ivy Bridge is so far off as to be a non-issue for most people who were wanting to upgrade to SB. USB 3 non-native? Who cares.
Click to expand...

This I completely agree with, as well as with what Liquid Cool said. You upgrade when you need to upgrade. That's usually the best way to go. If you want to use USB3 stuff, then you NEED to upgrade. If you're just being wishful, then you can wait. Just plan your upgrade so your wishful thinking isn't around the time when they're going to release a new chipset/cpu/etc. That way, buyers remorse doesn't feel that bad.
 
Pretty sure there will be an itx lga2011 socket board. They demoed it on a laptop... And it's 22nm.
 
but when has a laptop and desktop motherboard had the same socket? they almost always have the slower and lower TDP version for laptops. the only exception i can think of is the AMD E-350 chip or the atom
 
WhiteFireDragon said:
but when has a laptop and desktop motherboard had the same socket? they almost always have the slower and lower TDP version for laptops. the only exception i can think of is the AMD E-350 chip or the atom
Click to expand...

Intel socket M. Merom and Yonah chips. I believe they had mATX or even ATX board with this socket. It was rare, but they've done it before.
 
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