Vulkan Next on the Way

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Many computer hardware enthusiasts will be happy to know that the Khronos Group has let us know that one of the top priorities in Vulkan Next is "Better multi-GPU support" as well as "VR support." You can watch the full video streaming here.
 
Quix said:
It would be nice if Vulkan won the format war, then we wouldn't be locked in to Windows for gaming as badly as we are right now.
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I have 0 complaints as a windows 10 gamer today... but I completely agree a cross-platform standard/format is better in general since it allows more flexibility which is a good thing. While I am not at all into Linux on the desktop, I fully support anything that breaks down the barrier for others to choose which they prefer.
 
You have to take the big picture view on these things.
Vukan API: Window, Linux, Android, (Mac and iOS support possible)
DX12 API: Window only.

Which API do you choose Mr. Developer?
 
Vulkan is the real deal when it comes to performance. If they can get mGPU working on the same level as their basic API, it's going to be hard to beat.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
You have to take the big picture view on these things.
Vukan API: Window, Linux, Android, (Mac and iOS support possible)
DX12 API: Window only.

Which API do you choose Mr. Developer?
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What does Vulkan bring to the table solely in terms of a cross-platform API that OGL didn't? Sure I get that Vulkan should lead to overall better performance but what's changed so that Vulkan is the way to go where OGL wasn't? I think adding Android into this conversation doesn't really make a ton of sense, at least not for big AAA titles that aren't going to run on today's phones.

I'm not saying that Vulkan is bad. Just wondering what's changed other than the typical anti-Microsoft/Windows folks who of course always championed OGL anyway.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
You have to take the big picture view on these things.
Vukan API: Window, Linux, Android, (Mac and iOS support possible)
DX12 API: Window only.

Which API do you choose Mr. Developer?
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The one which would be easier to develop for. Meaning available engines/api collections/sdk pertaining to those. Reasons why OpenGL continued to fail regain market share. DirectX api collection was far easier to make games with, easy = cheap = goto. Consoles have their own SDK to get developers though the process so things like preferred rendering api doesn't mean much.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
You have to take the big picture view on these things.
Vukan API: Window, Linux, Android, (Mac and iOS support possible)
DX12 API: Window only.

Which API do you choose Mr. Developer?
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Mr. Developer chooses DX12, because it also runs on the XB1, and Windows has several thousand orders of magnitude more desktop users than Linux. The driver support is also night and day.
 
Terpfen said:
Mr. Developer chooses DX12, because it also runs on the XB1, and Windows has several thousand orders of magnitude more desktop users than Linux. The driver support is also night and day.
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That might be a meaningful statement if Vulkan only supported Linux. Hint: It also supports Windows 7, 8/8.1, and 10. Unlike DX12, Vulkan doesn't discriminate.

And DX12 on PC isn't the same customized and stripped down ""DX12" on XB1 - still two different codepaths for a developer to contend with.
 
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heatlesssun said:
What does Vulkan bring to the table solely in terms of a cross-platform API that OGL didn't? Sure I get that Vulkan should lead to overall better performance but what's changed so that Vulkan is the way to go where OGL wasn't? I think adding Android into this conversation doesn't really make a ton of sense, at least not for big AAA titles that aren't going to run on today's phones.

I'm not saying that Vulkan is bad. Just wondering what's changed other than the typical anti-Microsoft/Windows folks who of course always championed OGL anyway.
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DX12 = Vulcan in terms of functionality. Almost anything you can do in DX12 you can do in Vulcan since DX12 borrowed a lot from Vulcan. Android makes perfect sense IMHO. Lots of Android devices out there and having a common newer API than OpenGL is going to empower developers to put out more games on many more devices since the costs to port to a mobile version would decrease.

Personally I have a good feeling about Vulkan because of MS's forced obsolescence. Unlike OpenGL where the main draw was getting games to work across different platforms. MS not providing DX12 to Win 7/8/8.1 users is going to basically tie most developers to Vulkan to have maximum ability to sell their goods. This is no longer about getting it to work on different OSes, it's now about getting things to work across essentially the same platform Windows. The only ones who will really use DX12 will be ones MS paid to, or the ones from MS themselves. Most devs will probably go with Vulcan to save time developing their products so it works on all Windows versions to maximize their sales.
 
This is how you kill a standard. Don't wait until the first one even gets good adoption, just start pounding away and talking about the next one...
 
Ocellaris said:
This is how you kill a standard. Don't wait until the first one even gets good adoption, just start pounding away and talking about the next one...
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Not necessarily. Look at OpenGL. It stagnated for a while during the DX10 years and DX overtook it easily due to features offered to the developers. This might be a good move on their part to speed past DX12 while maintaining cross platform compatibility. If it can make developer's coding easier/faster, it can overtake DX12 in terms of use.
 
heatlesssun said:
What does Vulkan bring to the table solely in terms of a cross-platform API that OGL didn't? Sure I get that Vulkan should lead to overall better performance but what's changed so that Vulkan is the way to go where OGL wasn't? I think adding Android into this conversation doesn't really make a ton of sense, at least not for big AAA titles that aren't going to run on today's phones.

I'm not saying that Vulkan is bad. Just wondering what's changed other than the typical anti-Microsoft/Windows folks who of course always championed OGL anyway.
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Only reason OGL wasn't used so much was because MICROSOFT did their best to thwart it. Man, you never give up the shilling.
 
heatlesssun said:
I simply asked why Vulkan would be better accepted than OGL.
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That's not how I saw it, I saw it as an attempt the make people think negatively of Vulkan and bend towards DX12. Which is what it was even if it was "nuanced".
 
Ocellaris said:
This is how you kill a standard. Don't wait until the first one even gets good adoption, just start pounding away and talking about the next one...
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This is what we call the Osborne Effect.
Hopefully they won't release the new Vulcan too quickly, but either way, it will be exciting to see.
 
rezerekted said:
That's not how I saw it, I saw it as an attempt the make people think negatively of Vulkan and bend towards DX12. Which is what it was even if it was "nuanced".
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I never said anything about DX 12. Check you own biases and shilling before pointing fingers.
 
DPI said:
That might be a meaningful statement if Vulkan only supported Linux. Hint: It also supports Windows 7, 8/8.1, and 10. Unlike DX12, Vulkan doesn't discriminate.

And DX12 on PC isn't the same customized and stripped down ""DX12" on XB1 - still two different codepaths for a developer to contend with.
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Vulkan will play second fiddle to DX12 in PC gaming.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
You have to take the big picture view on these things.
Vukan API: Window, Linux, Android, (Mac and iOS support possible)
DX12 API: Window only.

Which API do you choose Mr. Developer?
Click to expand...

Hold on there cowboy. It's not unexpected that you wouldn't consider this (most don't), but Vulkan and OpenGL are specifically centered on graphics. DirectX offers several layers that deal with many aspects of a computer. From controller inputs, to codecs, to sound, to graphics. It is an ENTIRE package. You do not have to be a gamer to enjoy the benefits of DirectX.
  • Direct3D (D3D): for drawing 3D graphics.
  • DXGI: for enumerating adapters and monitors and managing swap chains for Direct3D 10 and up.
  • Direct2D: for 2D graphics.
  • DirectWrite: for fonts.
  • DirectCompute: for GPU Computing.
  • DirectSound3D (DS3D): for the playback of 3D sounds.
  • DirectX Media: comprising DirectAnimation for 2D/3D[14] web animation, DirectShow for multimedia playback and streaming media, DirectX Transform for web interactivity, and Direct3D Retained Mode for higher level 3D graphics. DirectShow contains DirectX plugins for audio signal processing and DirectX Video Acceleration for accelerated video playback.
  • DirectX Diagnostics (DxDiag): a tool for diagnosing and generating reports on components related to DirectX, such as audio, video, and input drivers.
  • DirectX Media Objects: support for streaming objects such as encoders, decoders, and effects.
  • DirectSetup: for the installation of DirectX components, and the detection of the current DirectX version.
  • XACT3 higher-level audio API
  • XAudio2: low-level API for audio

*I'm not a M$ shill, but I will defend to the death why Win95 was the most revolutionary OS ever made, and DirectX is part of that.
 
Terpfen said:
Vulkan will play second fiddle to DX12 in PC gaming.
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I wouldn't assume so - MS has been coasting on momentum a long time but everything comes to a stop eventually. If anything, it's DX12 that's going to be playing second fiddle to DX11 for years to come, as long as Windows 7 & 8.1 still make up more than half of all PC's, while Windows 10 is only about 20% of PC's.

Developers will continue to target DX11, at best with a few DX12 features slopped on as an afterthought for a marketing bulletpoint, in turn providing an opening for Vulkan to become apparent as a single API that empowers developers to hit all platforms.
 
DPI said:
I wouldn't assume so - MS has been coasting on momentum a long time but everything comes to a stop eventually. If anything, it's DX12 that's going to be playing second fiddle to DX11 for years to come, as long as Windows 7 & 8.1 still make up more than half of all PC's, while Windows 10 is only about 20% of PC's.

Developers will continue to target DX11, at best with a few DX12 features slopped on as an afterthought for a marketing bulletpoint, in turn providing an opening for Vulkan to become apparent as a single API that empowers developers to hit all platforms.
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Careful now, Pieter3dnow and JustReason will flood your alerts for even daring to suggest that a high level API will be used for one millisecond after low level APIs are made available.
 
heatlesssun said:
The only lines to read between were why is Vulkan going to be more widely used than OGL in PC gaming. That's a perfectly legitimate question.
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OK, because we don't want a Microsoft walled garden. That's reason enough. Also, from what I have seen so far Vulkan performs better than DX12, but that can change. In the early days OpenGL outperformed DirectX too.
 
rezerekted said:
OK, because we don't want a Microsoft walled garden. That's reason enough. Also, from what I have seen so far Vulkan performs better than DX12, but that can change. In the early days OpenGL outperformed DirectX too.
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Cool. I guess we'll see how it plays out. I really don't care, I simply want to play the games I want to. You call me a shill but that's probably the way most people see it.
 
I'm very afraid this is just going to fizzle out like Mantle did if they don't focus all their efforts on simply pushing Vulkan to as many devs as possible. Doom alone wont take this where it needs to go to save us from Microsoft's fucking DirectX lasso. Multi-GPU should be an afterthought right now. It represents so few people.
 
Mozgus said:
Multi-GPU should be an afterthought right now. It represents so few people.
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That's tricky. While I agree with the thought overall mutli-GPU is still kind of a big deal in PC gaming. It's a niche group but spends a lot of money on hardware and games. You can't totally ignore them in PC gaming. Not right now.
 
rezerekted said:
OK, because we don't want a Microsoft walled garden. That's reason enough. Also, from what I have seen so far Vulkan performs better than DX12, but that can change. In the early days OpenGL outperformed DirectX too.
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Here's the problem if you don't want a "Microsoft walled garden": Steam Hardware & Software Survey. Windows 10 moves up a little over 2% to 46.52, 7 down exactly 1% to 35.97. OS X down 0.2%, Linux up 0.02% with Windows up in total 0.19%, with all the growth was in 10. The x64/x86 split 10 vs 7 44.93/1.59 vs 29.7/6.27. That 44.93% that's Windows 10 x64, I'd bet everything that that's where the bulk of new games sales are going, well above that 44.93% market share number because that's the bulk of the people with newer setups and those are the people that probably by the most latest and greatest games.

Windows 10's growth will slow, but 7 isn't going to grow. And OS X has been supported by Steam for 6 years and hasn't really grown and if Linux is growing, Steam seem to like to every month look like it's a statistically anomaly with this survey.

Call me a shill, but developers are going to target where the paying customers are.
 
Mozgus said:
I'm very afraid this is just going to fizzle out like Mantle did if they don't focus all their efforts on simply pushing Vulkan to as many devs as possible. Doom alone wont take this where it needs to go to save us from Microsoft's fucking DirectX lasso. Multi-GPU should be an afterthought right now. It represents so few people.
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If devs didn't move to OpenGL when it was objectively better than DX, they won't move to Vulkan.

Devs who want to target mobile will go with Vulkan, but the console games that get crappy afterthought PC ports will remain DX forever.
 
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