Vortex Tube?

vapb400

Gawd
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Sep 19, 2004
Messages
786
Hey guys, I had a chance to talk to my uncle, the owner of an HVAC company about some extreme cooling. I showed him pictures of some of the rigs on here and XS and he was interested. However, he suggested I look into something called a vortex tube.

http://www.artxltd.com/vortex/principle.shtml

the method behind is incredibly simple, and it can wield very low temperatures. They aren't horribly expensive either.

http://safe.spsp.net/cgi-bin/artxlt...s=yes/sg=1/op=em/tf=sku/ml=20/sp=results.html

What are your guys thoughts on these, think it would be feasible to have one ducted right above the CPU?

My main concern was the air compressor. What SCFM do you guys think would be required to cool a CPU? It looks like there are 8, 10, 15,25,35 SCFM models of the vortex tubes, and those would require a very nice compressor. My uncle thinks he has a 25 SCFM (wasnt sure) in the shop, and he said I could swing by to check it out, and lend to experiment with. They have a good BTU spec as well, more than enough for a CPU.

So what do you guys think? Should I check it out? Or is there something I have missed making this a horrible idea?
 

crazyman_130

Weaksauce
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Feb 9, 2004
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95
vapb400 said:
So what do you guys think? Should I check it out? Or is there something I have missed making this a horrible idea?

condensation....preventing condensation when using air to cool a cpu could be quite a challenge...would you just blow air over the cpu? cause if so then you need to keep away from anything that would cause it to condensate....or would you blow air in to like a water block....which would make no sense but you could prevent condensation atleast and go with the -40c vortex's....it looks cool...but it doesnt look easy, if you can get it to work tho, it looks like it could be very cheap.

Sam
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
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the vortex tube wont work if you are planning on just sticking it on the top and letting it cool. i got my hands on one and didnt make a diff with temps and all that happened was water came through my air line and dripped on my stuff, but i turned it off in time. the case was closed too, and its really really loud
 

Swordfish45

Limp Gawd
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Oct 6, 2005
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So, youre going to need an air compressor? Whats the pressure and current required for this?
 

DarkSi

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Feb 7, 2006
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Yeah - it's a great idea, I just don't like the whole air compressor thing... Have you ever drained the water out of an air compressor after it's been running for a while? They tend to create QUITE a bit more humidity that we would ever want in our PCs!

However, if you could filter the air coming OUT of the vortex tube, so that the water issue was gone.... Then it could get feasible.
 

rodsfree

[H]ard|Gawd
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I use these things at work. To cool blocks of metal when they are being milled.

It takes a LOT of air. at 90PSIG. It produces condensation on everything including its self.

Mininum air compressor that would run one is a 3 1/2 HP.

Plus it's loud - about 80dB near the tube, when it's turned up all the way.

And the ass end of it gets really hot 150-200 degrees.

That's the way it works. One end puts out a little cold air and the other end puts out a lot of HOT REALLY HOT air.

I'd think it'd be a bad idea.....

That's just my opinion though. Go to just about any small machine shop and they'll probably have on that you can see work. The advantage for a machine shop is that you get spot cooling without liquid coolants that make a big mess.

 

Unknown-One

[H]F Junkie
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Sounds like you would be better off with a pelter, rather then trying to deal with one of these :p
 

Swordfish45

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Well, come to think of it, its not a bad idea. Condensation wouldnt be a problem within the circuit, because it would be frozen on that side anyway. Actualy, you could figure out a way so water only comes out the hot side.

The only persistent problem with this idea is the air compressor. Id need the exact specs on this, but your going to need some high current flow.
 

rodsfree

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Swordfish45 said:
Well, come to think of it, its not a bad idea. Condensation wouldnt be a problem within the circuit, because it would be frozen on that side anyway. Actualy, you could figure out a way so water only comes out the hot side.

The only persistent problem with this idea is the air compressor. Id need the exact specs on this, but your going to need some high current flow.

Water won't come out the hot side.....Heat turns water into steam! And it will get hot enough to do that. :eek:

Go to http://www.exair.com/vortextube/vt_page.htm to see a lot of info about them.

The water comes from condensation on the vortex tube's exterior and whatever it's cooling.

Current for the Air compressor is 120VAC at 15AMPS or 220VAC at 10AMPS, which means have a dedicated curcuit in your fuse box just for the air compressor.

 

urbsnspices

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I have thought about this too but more for the novelty of it all. If you surf around on the exair site you can see their cabinet cooling setups. Obviously you cannot have water dripping all over your cooled electrical cabinet so they obviously have found a solution. Probibly complex and expensive. Like I said this would be cool to set one of these things up and see if you can run an open core. I have a decent air compressor but it would have to run near 100% duty cycle for the medium sized units.

Looking at their site the cabinet coolers avoid condensation by not over concentrating the cool air. Anyway stil something to try someday. ;)
 
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
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oh, it's been a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time since i check this forum, but i actually got one of those vortex's awhile ago and it didnt give me any results. Just hooks up to an aircompressor and blows cold air but not enough, and i didnt have an air dryer on it so it put water in my case, but i turned it off in time.
 

cre8chaos

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"A low cold fraction (below 50%) means a smaller volume of air coming out that's very cold (down to -40°F/-40°C). In short, the less air you release, the colder the air."

Is the problem. You would need a big volume to cool todays proc's and it would take a huge compressor to keep up. Look into chiller/Direct Die aka Mach1 and the like.
 

bob

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Feb 13, 2002
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Maybe ive missed something, but if this needs a 3 1/2hp air compressor to work, how is this any better than having a 3 1/2hp phase-change system, that pumps around a refridgerated oil/water?
 

rodsfree

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bob said:
Maybe ive missed something, but if this needs a 3 1/2hp air compressor to work, how is this any better than having a 3 1/2hp phase-change system, that pumps around a refridgerated oil/water?

It's not any better - actually it's worse.
The Vortex tube works well in an industrial situation that requires spot cooling and you've got plenty of compressor capacity.
It's portable, quick to set up, easy to operate, doesn't require anything other than Air pressure and a lot of volume.

We use them for spot cooling while machining in our tool room. It will cool the cut as well as using liquid coolant but not leave the mess behind that liquid coolant makes on an open body machine like a Bridgeport mill or manual lathe.
I've also used them for cooling down shafts that had to be press fitted into a bore. But now we've got freezors that hold -140F.

But it is a neat idea - just not sutable for PC application.
 

Kaldskryke

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Just thought I'd point out that nonlnear is planning a watercooling project that involves a vortex tube of water. link
 

nonlnear

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Kaldskryke said:
Just thought I'd point out that nonlnear is planning a watercooling project that involves a vortex tube of water. link

I'd say that it's more at the brainstorming phase than planning, but the idea is out there.

Thanks for the link.
 

boshuter

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Mar 25, 2003
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I had one of these years ago, may still have it in the shop somewhere. I bought mine from the Snap-On dealer and it was used to test the thermostatic chokes in the older cars. You could open and close the choke depending on which end you pointed at the choke.

And yes..... I'm old enough to have worked on cars when they all had chokes :eek: :D
 
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