vista... repetive tasks ... could it not lead to lawsuits?

O

oROEchimaru

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jun 1, 2004
Messages
4,662
Ok, imagine this scenerio. Your me.. on winxp. You copy and paste text files from network to the desktop... 30-50 times a day. You then copy them back over (so thats 100 total transactions daily). Then you copy and paste your databases the same way 10 times per day.

Now in winxp I do this quickly. On vista, if I did my job I would have to move my wrist and click ok/verification boxes 1-2x for each transaction. That could be 100-200 extra mouse movements and clicks on an average day, maybe several hundred on a bad day.

This would be very repetitive and unproductive for the advertising, database and other industries that have desktop users. Why is Microsoft doing this to their customers?

So ... if you got carpel tunnel from the extra movements... would it be your companies liability or Microsoft's?

If you work at a company, that has a book on a shelf above your desk... and they make you write in it every 10 minutes, put it back... then take it back down... they can be sued for your longterm injuries.

Now imagine 100 extra mouse movements and clicks a day. you work 250 days... lets say 25, 000 extra movements a year... x 40 years... 1,000,000 extra movements and clicks.

who the fuck would want this as a feature?

ok... now you take out the injuries from it...

think about time:

this takes an extra few minutes a day of boring, pointless tasks. why? our company will never upgrade to vista... many companies do not want to since it would make their work less efficient. can't microsoft fix security issues without dumbing down their o/s?

i have vista x64 at home... for a month it was blazing fast... slowly its becoming slower and slower with no viruses, spyware or extra applications. is this a feature? i'm not sure lol. thanks for listening to my rant! probably got carpel tunnel from typing this
 
Why are you getting verification boxes when copying files to the desktop? that is not the default behavior for Vista, I copy files from my network to my desktop on a daily basis and never do I need to click any confirmation box unless it is overwriting files and that happens on any OS including XP.
 
General Crespin said:
Fixed.
Click to expand...

Psht. I do not care to be saved from myself, I run a hardware firewall and up to date antivirus/antispyware software -- as should everyone else. I do not want to click any more than necessary (I guess I share that with the OP). I do not search for anything save maybe once a year. No exaggeration there. I keep things organized, so they're where I expect them to be. The search field is a crutch, and my leg isn't broken. I don't want any more wear on my harddrives than necessary; the indexing service makes my otherwise quiet machine noisy. I don't care if it's "just for a few days" or whatever. It's unnecessary. Even if the index uses 2k of space, that's 2k of space I could put something else I actually care about in.

Arguing the point is one thing. "Fixing" my post because you don't agree with it is pretentious and annoying.
 
jroe52 said:
(conspiracy theory litigious BS)
Click to expand...

Why stop there? Why not sue your IT people for not setting up a GPO to make things work better for the company? How about sue the mouse company for making mice not conform to your hand size?

:rolleyes:
 
You get UAC prompts when copying to a location your user account doesn't have access to. Unless you intend to make a sloppy mess out of your file system (i.e. copy anything anywhere and everywhere), just set up the ACLs in the folders you want to use.

I updated ACLs on 3 preexisting folders over a year ago and have never been prompted by UAC when copying files.
 
So -- the next time you're "enjoying yourself" and you slip, hit the wall, and break your wrist, are you suing the KY company?


The way you are copying files are the tasks of a "power user". It's expected that, as a power user, you'll find a way around repetative portion. Even if you didn't, it's not their fault you used the tools that way.

Hint: Try that check box down at the bottom that lets you apply it to all operations.






Even if the index uses 2k of space, that's 2k of space I could put something else I actually care about in.
Click to expand...

read: more pr0n
 
If are copying those files back and forth manually, you definitely aren't following the work smart, not harder mantra. Scripts, batch files, SyncToy, etc are all ways to accomplish this.
 
Although I wouldn't necessarily put it past the courts to let it slip through, this would obviously be one of these frivolous lawsuit things, if it were even a realistic situation (since UAC doesn't prompt for such things).

I've written at greater length about it before, but you can't expect perfect security and perfect convenience. If you think that Windows was insecure before, then UAC is the best compromise you're going to get, and it's pretty much the same as the *nix security model. Anything less would be no real improvement in security, and anything more would drive everyone to turn it off. If you think Windows security was fine in XP, turn UAC off and manage your own security without blaming Windows.
 
wow..... the indexing service can be useful sometimes.... and once u disable it if u ever reenable it its gotta create the index from scratch

not a good idea
 
I find it absolutely hilarious that although windows lagged behind unix/linux for YEARS with regards to system security, when M$ finally implemented proper security features (like user groups and rights, and proper file permissions) people don't even use them anyway :rolleyes: Or they complain about them being an inconvenience.

I just don't understand why so many people voluntarily disable all the security features. Now to be fair I haven't used vista (except for a few of the betas), but it seems like turning off UAC and indexing and all that would basically be comparable to if I used the root account on my system 24/7 and ran all applications with root access :eek: No thanks! You're never going to see a unix user say "man I really hate having to su or sudo every time I want to change a systemwide setting or stop/start a service! I'll just run as root all the time instead!" Why do I see windows users doing essentially the same thing?
 
You don't use the start/search feature do you? If you did you wouldn't need to ask that question.
 
griffinhart said:
You don't use the start/search feature do you? If you did you wouldn't need to ask that question.
Click to expand...

No, I already said, I use search maybe once a year. If that. I keep things organized so I don't have to search. The fact that it takes a minute instead of 10 seconds for that once, maybe twice a year I use the feature... does not matter to me at all. I'd rather wait just a bit longer then than increase wear on my hard drive and have to listen to it clicking constantly, trying to keep the index to up date. Files come and go pretty much constantly on all my machines.

I never said disabling the indexing service was for everyone; I explained my reasons, and people still gave me a hard time about it. I also explained why I don't run with UAC enabled. People gave me a hard time about that too.
 
Eva_Unit_0 said:
I find it absolutely hilarious that although windows lagged behind unix/linux for YEARS with regards to system security, when M$ finally implemented proper security features (like user groups and rights, and proper file permissions) people don't even use them anyway :rolleyes: Or they complain about them being an inconvenience.
Click to expand...
NTFS added ACLs well over a decade ago.

Ars had a nice article yesterday about the history of file systems: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/past-present-future-file-systems.ars
 
The hard drive activity drops to almost nothing after a week or so. But It's not just a matter of keeping files organized. I personally use it all the time. Searching for contacts, e-mail, documents, photo's and or music just by hitting the start button and typing a name is fantastically useful. Indexing is very useful and just because you chose not to take advantage of that useful tool doesn't make it less so.
 
silent-circuit said:
How is it useful? Ever?
Click to expand...

I have 5,000+ documents on my own workstation and over 150,000 on my server

Now suppose I want to reuse a calculation, a process or just some text from a previous project and I don't remember exactly what customer or project it was.

I could start guessing, and open and read hundreds of documents and hope that I get lucky.

Or I could type in a few keywords and immediately narrow the search down to just a few dozen or less.
 
maybe this is just an x64 issue for vista?

i don't use vista for work thank goodness... if i did this action one million times in my life, i dont see how this was improving security at any level... the end result would of been the same since i was telling it to transfer these files. thats why i think its a retarded system for office use.

if you were not us... if you were not from hardocp... do you think the average office lady would figure all this crap out? doubt it...

they need to do a study.. between worker performance for xp vs vista..

anyone here would use vista over xp at their work place? not sure many would... not many companies are except when forced to with new purchases.. kind of sucks.
 
griffinhart said:
The hard drive activity drops to almost nothing after a week or so. But It's not just a matter of keeping files organized. I personally use it all the time. Searching for contacts, e-mail, documents, photo's and or music just by hitting the start button and typing a name is fantastically useful. Indexing is very useful and just because you chose not to take advantage of that useful tool doesn't make it less so.
Click to expand...

Any audio player worth its weight in your choice of excrement already has an integrated indexing and search feature. I use Winamp.

Any email client, same idea. Any photo editing software, again, same idea.

A week is ridiculous.
 
silent-circuit said:
Any audio player worth its weight in your choice of excrement already has an integrated indexing and search feature. I use Winamp.

Any email client, same idea. Any photo editing software, again, same idea.
Click to expand...

Instead off all these separate indexes, why not one unified search built in to the OS?
 
Eva_Unit_0 said:
NTFS added case sensitivity over a decade ago as well, and notice how it is still not used internally by Windows.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure many people even want case sensitive filenames. I know I don't. :p *nix is kind of stuck with it though since changing it would break a lot of stuff.
 
how about the three times i had to re-register windows vista x64 for no reason...

1st... changed my broken hard drive (ok i can see where this would cause a prompt)
2nd... i called because it said i needed to register... fine... i'll do it again
3rd... it forgot that i already called and registered... had to refreaking register again.

why did it disable the computer i freaking paid for... because it forgot that i registered?

i could of got a pirated copy and never had these issues lol. but no i paid for it off newegg.

for me its an easy fix... but my parents and most people not computer nerds would of been like fuck it... let him call for me.

imagine if you setup a network of 100 computers... and all 100 forgot that they were legal registered copies... or you had to add wireless cards to all of them and for some reason vista thinks you bought a new computer because its a backwoods retard and married its 3.1 sister... you would have to make 100 freaking phone calls. thats over 2-4 hours of wasted company time.
 
jroe52 said:
anyone here would use vista over xp at their work place? not sure many would... not many companies are except when forced to with new purchases.. kind of sucks.
Click to expand...


We're about 50/50 at my office, and will be changed completely over when Solidworks has their next release.

And you know what, you just about never see a UAC box for everyday tasks.
 
pigster said:
Instead off all these separate indexes, why not one unified search built in to the OS?
Click to expand...

Because I don't need anything else indexed? I'll never search for one of the thousands of files that make up the Crysis or Bioshock installs... or much of anything else I have on the machine.

I agree it makes a lot of sense for you and those who are doing office type work on their machines and need to be able to find that sort of thing quickly. It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense for /many/ users here.
 
jroe52 said:
imagine if you setup a network of 100 computers... and all 100 forgot that they were legal registered copies... or you had to add wireless cards to all of them and for some reason vista thinks you bought a new computer because its a backwoods retard and married its 3.1 sister... you would have to make 100 freaking phone calls. thats over 2-4 hours of wasted company time.
Click to expand...

There's this thing called volume licensing......
 
silent-circuit said:
It doesn't, however, make a lot of sense for /many/ users here.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's true that many view it as having a major performance penalty when the truth is that once it's indexed it has very little impact.

If you think that minor bit of improvement makes all the difference, then by all means turn it off.
 
jimmyb said:
I want case sensitive file names.
Click to expand...

NTFS supports case sensitive file names

Test,txt
TEST.txt
test.txt

can all exist in the same directory

But since almost all applications DON'T support this, it's really not much use
 
silent-circuit said:
Any audio player worth its weight in your choice of excrement already has an integrated indexing and search feature. I use Winamp.

Any email client, same idea. Any photo editing software, again, same idea.

A week is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you prefer to use several applications to do something that the OS itself can do. I prefer to do it more efficiently. But, you are saying that having a search integrated into the OS is not useful. Again, you are wrong. It's your choice to not take advantage of the feature and that's your prerogative, however, that doesn't make it a useless feature.
 
There's this thing called volume licensing......
Click to expand...

I believe that went away with XP.

Well, at least the volume licensing that we know of it. A VLM license has to register itself with a license server and it has to do it every so many days or it will disable itself. Thus stopping the myriad of pirated OS's that technicians used to bring home and distribute to their friends and families.

There may be different licensing models for vista that allow what we've come to know as VLM, but I haven't seen it. I might have just overlooked it though.
 
We don't use Vista at my workplace just because there's nothing really substantive or any specific need for us to switch.

As far as x64 Vista goes, I run that on my home machine. I turned UAC off first thing, but I keep a good firewall, router, and anti virus going, in addition to being very aware of what I am doing when I tell my machine to run something.

I think UAC is a bit excessive as far as security goes, but when your users are running in root by _default_ I suppose thats how far you have to go.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this post but no sane Linux user would run in root all the time, but that's the kind of madness Microsoft feels is okay, even today. UAC is kind of their fix for being in root all the time but really people just get conditioned to click okay, so that kind of nullifies any added security.
 
pigster said:
NTFS supports case sensitive file names

Test,txt
TEST.txt
test.txt

can all exist in the same directory

But since almost all applications DON'T support this, it's really not much use
Click to expand...

You sure about that? Is that a feature you have to turn on?

Drop to a command prompt and type
Code: 
copy con test.txt
test
(control+z)

That will make a file called test.txt


Now type
Code: 
copy con TeSt.TxT
test

You won't be able to hit control+z to save it because you'll get prompted to overwrite the file that already exists.


Test.txt = TEST.TXT = TEST.txt and every other variation. It's not case sensitive, it just allows you to preserve case in the file names. That is, unless there is a machine policy to turn on true case sensitive filenames.

As far as I'm aware, the only thing case sensitive in the windows world are passwords.
 
jroe52 said:
imagine if you setup a network of 100 computers... and all 100 forgot that they were legal registered copies... or you had to add wireless cards to all of them and for some reason vista thinks you bought a new computer because its a backwoods retard and married its 3.1 sister... you would have to make 100 freaking phone calls. thats over 2-4 hours of wasted company time.
Click to expand...
That's unlikely to happen even if you built the systems and installed the OS individually. Adding a network card (or most other types of upgrades) isn't going to trigger reactivation. There are a couple of very strange changes that some "standard" motherboard makers have done in BIOS updates that do make enough changes to break the limit. Those are rare exceptions overall though.

Most companies buy desktops prebuilt, with the OS pre-installed, whether or not if they have a volume license agreement. Those systems are (mostly) not activated in the same way as joe blow installing it individually. There's a certificate on the install media and a matching table entry in the BIOS that lets the OS bypass normal activation. The systems are pre-activated. Reinstalling from the original OEM media, if provided, also pre-activates it. (Using other generic media won't activate it automatically.)

Vista activation isn't that fragile. In my main Vista system, I've changed GPUs at least 4 times, upgraded the dvd burner (IDE to SATA), added an extra internal hard drive, used 2 different eSATA drives, updated the BIOS 3 times, added a sound card, changed out the CPU 3 times with different models and changed the memory configuration 3 times. I've never been prompted to reactivate in over a year since I installed it.
 
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