Vista Less Secure Than XP?

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Is the User Account Control feature in Windows Vista so annoying that users will simply turn it off, making Vista less secure than Windows XP? That is the argument being made by the CEO of Kaspersky.

Natalya Kaspersky, the company's chief executive, said that without UAC, Vista will be less secure than Windows XP SP2. "There's a question mark if Vista security has improved, or has really dropped down," she said to our sister site ZDNet UK at the CeBIT show in Hanover last week. Kaspersky provides one of the scanning engines in ForeFront, Microsoft's business security product.
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If you need to turn it off, you're an impatient ass IMO. You get used to it and for once your operating system is interacting with you instead of getting those calls "I have no idea how that got there"
 
UAC is crap. Overwrite an existing file and you get prompted 4 times if you are sure or if you allow it! Ridiculous. It's annoying at best. The real culprit is a lack of a proper filesystem which would have appropriate permission combined with a working user based permission model and not this half-azzed hybrid model MS is trying to glorify as excellent.

The fact is, Unix got it right. You had a proper sandbox while installing software or drivers and you get a secure yet functional system.
 
syntx said:
UAC is crap. Overwrite an existing file and you get prompted 4 times if you are sure or if you allow it! Ridiculous. It's annoying at best. The real culprit is a lack of a proper filesystem which would have appropriate permission combined with a working user based permission model and not this half-azzed hybrid model MS is trying to glorify as excellent.

The fact is, Unix got it right. You had a proper sandbox while installing software or drivers and you get a secure yet functional system.
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I've never had that problem. It asks me once, or if its multiple files, and you can read there is a box to check.
 
This is such an asinine argument. The same could be said of downloading illegal files or visiting pr0n sites, or choosing to surf without antivirus and antispyware software. Disabling the UAC is an action by the USER that decreases the security of the system. You CANNOT blame microsoft for this, nor can you blame the OS.
I have been using Vista since RC1, and I have yet to turn off UAC. It's not that annoying, and the benefits far outweigh any distraction.
 
UAC didn't last more then 5 minutes after I installed Vista. Yet, I don't see joe average user turning it off. They will be happy to leave it running since it makes their PC safer from all the viruses and spyware the get from the warez and music they try to download from limewire.
 
UAC is a pain in the ass. I understand the need for security (it's about time M$), but it goes over the top. Once or twice is fine, but it seems like there's multiple prompts for just about everything...Do I need quadruple prompts to wipe my ass Bill?
 
UAC is a PITA. Mine didn't last long, probably about a week before I've had it. For the most users, it wouldn't be an issue as they would be doing simple operations and most of them won't know where to go to turn it off.
 
I find it ironic that a kaspersky CEO is talking about annoying security features... KIS's proactive defense bugs me each time I run TAT or try to install anything, and everytime a program is updated.. boom are you sure you want to run it? Yes I'm sure dammit!

Still haven't figured out how to made good exclude/include lists since its rules seem to effect the end result and not what program is running.
 
UAC is really not that bad. I only end up clicking it once to install an application (maybe twice if the app uses two installers to install different components) and only have to click it once to perform admin tasks. I find it no more annoying than OS X's system. My wife on her laptop runs as a limited user and in the last three months only required my admin account once for UAC. (And it was to install an application).

The funny this is that most users don't know how to turn off UAC so the typical users might actually be more secure than many "power users" who think they know what they are doing.

Then again the only people I know who get viruses are those who visit porn or blindly open everything sent to them (and these days AV software and e-mail clients are getting better at preventing the later).
What can I say, visiting porn is like using a hooker. Sooner or later you catch something nasty.
 
I found UAC to be most annoying with unrecognized startup programs. UAC gives me no option to say "Yes, I trust this program, run it every time the computer starts up. No, the OS assumes I may not know what I'm doing and requires that I approve said program every time the machine boots. This is a real pain in the rear. Disabling UAC results in the red shield in the system tray, with periodic popups that I'm not safe. Equally annoying.

I think OS X does this much nicer than XP. The prompts don't come as often; when they do, you're required to type in an admin account/password, making you think for a second, rather than just turning users into robots that click "OK".

UAC could become worthwhile --but I think it has a ways to go before it does. Until then, (along with a lot of other reasons), I'll keep running XP.
 
Hmm never thought about startup programs (never actually ran into that problem), but I do think a "always trust" option could be beneficial along with some more configuration options for selecting what needs UAC or not. Never thought about it, but I wonder if it can be configured more through group policy?
 
You can call me all the names you want, but I'll second, third, or fourth the sentiment that the UAC sucks. I don't know if it operates differently across different versions of Vista, but I hated it within 5 minutes boot up on the store bought laptops I was setting up for clients.

Attempting to clean the bloatware off of your standard Gateway or Toshiba laptop with the UAC on is a frustrating act. It may be different for those of you that performed a clean install, but I find it supremely annoying as it stands on pre-installs.

I personally found myself wanting a "power user" mode, but thats a moot point at this time, because I'm waiting for Vista to mature by a large margin before I bite.
 
The UAC needs to become self learning or at least scan a MS trusted data base of allowed software that is updated daily. Better yet make it so it also prevents known applications that cause issues again having a MS trusted data base of “risk” software. The UAC is useful for me but from an EU standpoint very confusing and just leads to clicking away to get rid of an annoying popup.
 
GabooN said:
The UAC is useful for me but from an EU standpoint very confusing and just leads to clicking away to get rid of an annoying popup.
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That's the real issue. If someone is novice enough to surf "the wrong type of website" or download "the wrong type of file" then they are going to be the same ones that just click on anything to accept it and get moving...
 
yeah, they should turn off that sh*t in unix too. Security and system integrity is such a pain in the ass.

In reality, this is a monster of MS's own making. Giving everyone admin rights all the time must have made sense to someone in marketing in the 90's, but what was an "easy" choice back then is coming back to bite them in the ass today.
 
Kahnvex said:
You can call me all the names you want, but I'll second, third, or fourth the sentiment that the UAC sucks. I don't know if it operates differently across different versions of Vista, but I hated it within 5 minutes boot up on the store bought laptops I was setting up for clients.

Attempting to clean the bloatware off of your standard Gateway or Toshiba laptop with the UAC on is a frustrating act. It may be different for those of you that performed a clean install, but I find it supremely annoying as it stands on pre-installs.

I personally found myself wanting a "power user" mode, but thats a moot point at this time, because I'm waiting for Vista to mature by a large margin before I bite.
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Yeah, UAC sucks when you're cleaning bloatware and doing the initial app install. It seems like it's always in your face. If you can tough it out through the initial config, UAC will just drop into the background showing up only when required.

"Your Mouse has moved: Accept or Cancel?"
 
Dumb article from a company that wants to sell more crap. The people who are going to nuke UAC are the ones who aren't going to get a virus in the first place. The ones who's computers are normally running 22 background trojans won't be able to figure out how to turn it off or know that they can turn it off. Moot.
 
XP was plenty secure for me because I knew what I was doing. Ive turned off UAC since I still know what Im doing and Vista has been plenty secure. UAC is for the people who dont know what theyre doing, and luckilly those people have NO IDEA how to turn it off or even know that it can be turned off.
 
Wow I almost said the exact samething as fooshnik, I was even going to say "This point is moot" but deleted it before submitting
 
Just turned of UAC after using Vista since release. Found that it got waay too annoying asking me every time if I wanted to open a .rar file when I was the one whole double clicked the damn thing. I can see most joe-shmoe uses keeping it on though.
 
I toggle UAC off when I am installing older apps, otherwise it's on all the time. I would suggest to those that are getting bent out of shape about UAC to just selectively disable the secure desktop instead of all of UAC, it's much less of an interruption after that.

To those that are worried about their users repeatedly hitting the feeder-bar for a pellet instead of paying attention to the actual message, toggle the UAC to prompt for a password... just like *nix. That will force them into looking at the message a few seconds longer hopefully. Maybe even avoid doing something they shouldn't.
 
XP SP2 FTW. ;)

UAC FTL!!!1one

I'll never understand the early adopters for Operating Systems. Of all the things to be an early adopter on (cars, cell phones, hardware) why pick the OS?

The mac commercial has it nailed.

"you're coming to a sad realisation, cancel or allow?"

"allow"

lol
 
I don't see what anybody's complaining about. In fact, I thought I accidentally disabled it a couple weeks ago because I came to the realization that I hadn't seen that prompt in over a week, but then I hit it.

When I was running RC1, I'd get a bunch of prompts at boot but my install of the final Vista Business only prompts me that I have a piece of hardware without drivers when I boot because m-audio hasn't put out drivers for my Delta 44 yet. It even gives me an option to ignore it, but I don't because I'll honestly forget at some point. :)
 
I find XP to be secure for me and it should be for anyone that knows what they are doing.

I set up an in-laws new vista laptop, installing software etc, and didn't mind UAC. Go figure.
 
the first thing i did after i installed vista is get those stupid UAC things every time i tried to change anything, needless to say the next thing i tried to find was where to turn that crap off... i mean, UAC is beyond agrivating "you have moved your mouse more than 100px are you sure?" "you have clicked that you are sure, are you sure that you are sure?" jeezus leave me alone... then they moved EVERYTHING... i cant find how to change anything... i just got frustrated and gave up, nuked my drive and went back to XP again... waste of money
 
FLECOM said:
the first thing i did after i installed vista is get those stupid UAC things every time i tried to change anything, needless to say the next thing i tried to find was where to turn that crap off... i mean, UAC is beyond agrivating "you have moved your mouse more than 100px are you sure?" "you have clicked that you are sure, are you sure that you are sure?" jeezus leave me alone... then they moved EVERYTHING... i cant find how to change anything... i just got frustrated and gave up, nuked my drive and went back to XP again... waste of money
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you just nuked your drive, are you sure? :p
 
FLECOM said:
the first thing i did after i installed vista is get those stupid UAC things every time i tried to change anything, needless to say the next thing i tried to find was where to turn that crap off... i mean, UAC is beyond agrivating "you have moved your mouse more than 100px are you sure?" "you have clicked that you are sure, are you sure that you are sure?" jeezus leave me alone... then they moved EVERYTHING... i cant find how to change anything... i just got frustrated and gave up, nuked my drive and went back to XP again... waste of money
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See, I felt the same way at first as well. I couldn't find files, I couldn't navigate as well.
After 4 months of using Vista, however, I must say that once I have gotten used to the layout, it makes life much easier, because things are more intuitively laid out.

Just ;ike any new software, it takes time to get used to. I think that is why some people are having issues. After 5 years, and probably at least 2 XP based systems, they expect to boot up and find everything they need where they want it. That's not going to happen with any OS...
 
zero_vertical said:
you just nuked your drive, are you sure? :p
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ok, nuked my drives?

Modred189 said:
See, I felt the same way at first as well. I couldn't find files, I couldn't navigate as well.
After 4 months of using Vista, however, I must say that once I have gotten used to the layout, it makes life much easier, because things are more intuitively laid out.

Just ;ike any new software, it takes time to get used to. I think that is why some people are having issues. After 5 years, and probably at least 2 XP based systems, they expect to boot up and find everything they need where they want it. That's not going to happen with any OS...
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i guess, i dunno, i just had bad luck with it from the start...

i also had a lot of issues where it would tell me i had no network card installed, even after i installed the driver for it... then it would find it sometimes, i would reboot, and bam, gone again (and its an Intel PRO1000 so its not an odd-ball card)
 
hamm3rhead said:
To those that are worried about their users repeatedly hitting the feeder-bar for a pellet instead of paying attention to the actual message, toggle the UAC to prompt for a password... just like *nix. That will force them into looking at the message a few seconds longer hopefully. Maybe even avoid doing something they shouldn't.
Click to expand...

Do you have instructions on how to do this? Would be usefull on some more of my troublesome PC's that I maintain, notably, my grandmothers. Shes the Queen of "Click Until It Goes Away". Might help put an end to my weekly spyware sweep, and monthly reinstall.
 
FLECOM said:
the first thing i did after i installed vista is get those stupid UAC things every time i tried to change anything, needless to say the next thing i tried to find was where to turn that crap off... i mean, UAC is beyond agrivating "you have moved your mouse more than 100px are you sure?" "you have clicked that you are sure, are you sure that you are sure?" jeezus leave me alone... then they moved EVERYTHING... i cant find how to change anything... i just got frustrated and gave up, nuked my drive and went back to XP again... waste of money
Click to expand...

Vista came with my new laptop. It took me about 2 hours to turn off all the stupid BS that comes with Vista. I think Microsoft calls all that fukin' crap "features". I got it to look as much like my XP box as I could but I wasn't able to kill the lurking Vista "feel".

I got fed up with the garbage so I formatted the HD. Got a fresh install of XP and its great!

Vista - Not since ME have I seen such a turd. :p
 
ICOM said:
Vista came with my new laptop. It took me about 2 hours to turn off all the stupid BS that comes with Vista. I think Microsoft calls all that fukin' crap "features". I got it to look as much like my XP box as I could but I wasn't able to kill the lurking Vista "feel".

I got fed up with the garbage so I formatted the HD. Got a fresh install of XP and its great!

Vista - Not since ME have I seen such a turd. :p
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But you claim to know the OS after only 2 hours?

(Though I have to agree with the ME notion. GOD I hated that OS)
 
Alias2 said:
Do you have instructions on how to do this? Would be usefull on some more of my troublesome PC's that I maintain, notably, my grandmothers. Shes the Queen of "Click Until It Goes Away". Might help put an end to my weekly spyware sweep, and monthly reinstall.
Click to expand...

I think this is why UAC is such a failure. People have a tendency to just click yes or they're afraid they won't get the information or web page they're looking for. So they just click yes.

UAC has detected an invalid memory parallel segment copying all ASCII strings through your PS/2 port. Cancel or Allow?
 
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