Vista is infested with drm

M

maxius

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 17, 2001
Messages
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there should be a crapload of outrage at the vole for this

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stream/output_protect.mspx

to all of you that just built/got top of the line systems with 7800gtx's and x1900xtx also big widescreen lcd's well vista turns all of that into a paper weight all for the nextgen in hd
content but as you can see all content on a pc is effected by this

fireing squad has done two great articles discussing the upcoming problem with vista and its video content protection strategy seeing that you need both a compliant video card and a complient display to view nextgen hd content on your pc

this first one is general with graphics companies not suporting the standard good luck finding a hdcp video card
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_nvidia_hdcp_support/


this second one deals with the vista and the lcd side of things also good luck finding a hdcp lcd
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista-ready_hdcp_lcd_roundup/

am i the only one that sees a problem with this i think not but people are being silent and not standing up for their fair use rights and these companies will spoon feed us this crap if nothing is done to stop them one option is to take these companies to court for violateing the consumers fair use rights they are trying to control too much forget about big brother for now the real danger is the riaa/mpaa casue if things keep going in their current direction we will end up paying once for a cd/dvd and then paying for every time we want to use it
 
It's only for nextgen HD content that's not even available yet and likely won't be mainstream for quite a while. Other than that, your video card, lcd will work just fine with the exception of HD content thats not even available yet or in the foreseable future.
 
The Donut said:
It's only for nextgen HD content that's not even available yet and likely won't be mainstream for quite a while. Other than that, your video card, lcd will work just fine with the exception of HD content thats not even available yet or in the foreseable future.
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this os is seeing the light of day with in a year the video side of things is insane with drm yes it is mostly for the nextgen of content but what is stoping all of this drm from effecting the previous generation of content honestly i see nothing in the way of that so all of this drm is not in the consumers best intrests and severly restricts our fair use rights on more than just video but audio as well honestly do you want your new pc telling what you can and can not do with your content that you paied for ... i think not this travisty should not be allowed to happen
 
maxius said:
this os is seeing the light of day with in a year the video side of things is insane with drm yes it is mostly for the nextgen of content but what is stoping all of this drm from effecting the previous generation of content honestly i see nothing in the way of that so all of this drm is not in the consumers best intrests and severly restricts our fair use rights on more than just video but audio as well honestly do you want your new pc telling what you can and can not do with your content that you paied for ... i think not this travisty should not be allowed to happen
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I hope Vista comes with a built in grammar checker. You must be so outraged, you decided to skip any type of punctuation. ;)
 
djnes said:
I hope Vista comes with a built in grammar checker. You must be so outraged, you decided to skip any type of punctuation. ;)
Click to expand...

yes errrrr ummm that is exactly why this really steams me
 
I don't think you're gonna find anybody that doesn't think it stinks but what I've seen over the past years is that sooner or later, they always find a way around drm. Big coprporations are doing it to protect their intellectual property, I'm sure paying customers won't be affected by this... :D
 
The same issues will also plague HD DVD and Blue Ray players. If you use component connections with them they will downscale the HD content. They want you to use HDMI or DVI so they can ensure you are using another device to copy the content.

Vista itself is not loaded with DRM. It's the protected HD content that is. IMO it's really no different than all the online stores selling protected MP3 content.

Apple will have to put in the same support as Vista to be able to view this protected HD content. Same as Linux. It's not the OS that is the issue, it's the DRM placed in HD content.
 
yes but the money hungery companies will force this crap down our throats and when its done being forced we will be left with a complete loss of our fair use rights and stuff we buy will be telling us what we can and can not do with it ... and that is wrong
 
not everywhere :p

but I agree, you can only vote with your pocketbook
and scream to high heaven so others might be aware of how their "vote" counts as well

isnt there two e's in hungery? :p
 
Ice Czar said:
not everywhere :p

but I agree, you can only vote with your pocketbook
and scream to high heaven so others might be aware of how their "vote" counts as well

isnt there two e's in hungery? :p
Click to expand...
You say vote with your pocketbook, but I'm poor as hell therefore the rich get a whole lot more votes than I do.
Also like another poster said there has yet to be a form of copy protection that hasn't been cracked (as far as I know).
 
being poor is the best reason to vote with your pocket book

down with Microsoft
Up with Top Ramen! :p
 
If you can watch the content you can crack the content - it's only a matter of time. As with most DRM schemes this one will only punish and handicap normal paying users. If they truly are forced to purchase a new monitor just to watch content I see a nightmare on the horizon. Upgrading is perfectly reasonable when the current hardware cannot cope with the demands of the newest content. But to force an upgrade on people just to fit into your DRM scheme? That's absurd. I don't know if it's illeagal but it should be.

Pirates and anyone with half a brain will install a crack to get around trash like this. I don't even understand how they can claim they're instituting this to cut down on "piracy." Besides, the pirates who are actually eating into their income are the ones printing copied DVDs in Asia, and this DRM will do absolutely nothing, zip, nada to cut down on that. In fact it will widen their customer base as people turn to the black-market because mainstream content is essentially "broken."
.
Unless of course Microsoft has discovered a way to watch what every single person everywhere in the world is watching on their computers at all times this whole thing is a joke. It doesn't take many people to tear down a DRM system like this.

But they're not dumb. By forcing the consumer to purchase an entirely new operating system and computer both hardware makers and Microsoft are set to make a killing. The vast majority of consumers who had otherwise no reason to upgrade will be forced to. It's all about the bottom line.

Q: Why is there almost no DRM-ready hardware out there?

A: So hardware makers can sell you the same 30" LCD twice.
 
djnes said:
I hope Vista comes with a built in grammar checker. You must be so outraged, you decided to skip any type of punctuation. ;)
Click to expand...


Except Punctuation and Grammar are separate in the English language
 
looks like ill be skipping another OS release, much the same way i skipped ME. I went from 98SE to Win2k Pro, and in fact i have 2k Pro on all of my machines except for my laptop i am on right now.
 
Crosshairs said:
Best answer yet, and advice I took..:)

Windows free by 2007 for me .....
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It won't make any difference, you still won't be able to view protected HD content.

People, this isn't a Microsoft thing. It's a MPAA thing. Do you blame apple for the DRM in the MP3's they sell in itunes? It's the same thing.

OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.

This isn't for all HD content. Only the stuff that is protected. And again, it will also be in HD DVD and Blue Ray and requires certain hardware support from set top boxes and HDTV's. So it's not limited to computers.
 
Old news really about the DRM.


MS will make Vista and people WILL buy it - and guess who those people are...

the same people who buy any OEM syetem - Dell / Gateway / Acer / Toshiba et cetera,

and the people who buy these systems wont be affected at all by the DRM issues because their entire system will be compatible so they wont realize a problem with specific hardware. - unlike people like us who build our system - we will notice it, but like XP activation crap - it will be hacked and broken and work arounds made - it is a %100 garunteed - find me one piece of "anti" piracy code that has not been cracked to date....... often before it has even hit the store shelves....

make a big deal out of the DRM now, just like people did about all the crap XP was brining, now how many people are using XP?

It won't make any difference, you still won't be able to view protected HD content.

People, this isn't a Microsoft thing. It's a MPAA thing. Do you blame apple for the DRM in the MP3's they sell in itunes? It's the same thing.

OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.

This isn't for all HD content. Only the stuff that is protected. And again, it will also be in HD DVD and Blue Ray and requires certain hardware support from set top boxes and HDTV's. So it's not limited to computers.
Click to expand...

Exactly...Linux will soon have features like this as well when movie studio's and such demand it and software developers........
 
Here's a question: let's assume that Bill Gates feels sorry for everyone in this thread and buys us all new monitors/TVs/video cards/whatever, rendering that point moot. I remember hearing somewhere that this time around there was going to be legal support for ripping Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Is this true? That might make it a bit easier to swallow.

If you think about it, I don't see why they couldn't - the rip could still be encoded in HDCP, and tied to the TPM chip in your PC, as opposed to the current way of doing things, where the rip is both unencrypted and playable by all machines.
 
Archer75 said:
OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.
Click to expand...

I have my doubts Linux will ever be able to view protected content without some form of legal hassle happening. I haven't seen one closed source media player in the Linux realm that is actually used, and I don't see it changing any time soon. We also know they will never allow the protection scheme to be viewed by every one, and as such won't make it into open source software unless some one reverse engineers it (which will probably happen, I have no doubt some one will figure it out).
 
Linux won't have to follow suit. We can view CSS protected DVD's in linux, even though we're not supposed to. Sooner or later someone, unfortunately probably outside the united states, will reverse engineer the mpaa Digital Restrictions Management software and provide a solution, with source code, to the world.

Archer75 said:
It won't make any difference, you still won't be able to view protected HD content.

People, this isn't a Microsoft thing. It's a MPAA thing. Do you blame apple for the DRM in the MP3's they sell in itunes? It's the same thing.

OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.

This isn't for all HD content. Only the stuff that is protected. And again, it will also be in HD DVD and Blue Ray and requires certain hardware support from set top boxes and HDTV's. So it's not limited to computers.
Click to expand...
 
Bill gates could attempt to give me the biggest TV and fastest computer and so forth and I would not accept it, because I could not trust it. Free software is about freedom. There is no freedom in a system where another person or company gets to decide what you can watch or not.

LstOfTheBrunnenG said:
Here's a question: let's assume that Bill Gates feels sorry for everyone in this thread and buys us all new monitors/TVs/video cards/whatever, rendering that point moot. I remember hearing somewhere that this time around there was going to be legal support for ripping Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Is this true? That might make it a bit easier to swallow.

If you think about it, I don't see why they couldn't - the rip could still be encoded in HDCP, and tied to the TPM chip in your PC, as opposed to the current way of doing things, where the rip is both unencrypted and playable by all machines.
Click to expand...
 
Craziness - of course you could trust it, it's called the Trusted Platform for a reason.
 
Whatsisname said:
Linux won't have to follow suit. We can view CSS protected DVD's in linux, even though we're not supposed to. Sooner or later someone, unfortunately probably outside the united states, will reverse engineer the mpaa Digital Restrictions Management software and provide a solution, with source code, to the world.
Click to expand...

Well yeah, if you crack the protection on it it won't make any difference what OS you use.
 
Not necessarily. With Treacherous Computing in place, microsoft would only allow you to run what they deem appropriate. Even with a free content viewer, you could be unable to run it.

Archer75 said:
Well yeah, if you crack the protection on it it won't make any difference what OS you use.
Click to expand...
 
Archer75 said:
People, this isn't a Microsoft thing. It's a MPAA thing. Do you blame apple for the DRM in the MP3's they sell in itunes? It's the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yes but that doesn't make my fairly new iPod unusable with those MP3s. The hdcp crap makes my brand new 2005fpw unable to view HD-DVD content... to me thats bullcrap.

Archer75 said:
OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.
Click to expand...

Apple already has protected HD Content. And again, this doesn't screw me by not being able to view it, as long as I can get iTunes, and thats free, I can view the HD content I paid for.

Archer75 said:
This isn't for all HD content. Only the stuff that is protected. And again, it will also be in HD DVD and Blue Ray and requires certain hardware support from set top boxes and HDTV's. So it's not limited to computers.
Click to expand...

This is exactly why im boycotting HD-DVD content, I don't care that much about HD, im not going to run out and buy a new LCD/video card and a HDTV w/hdcp. NO THANKS, if you can't support my "legacy" hardware then screw you, cuase the "legacy" hardware isn't even a year old.
 
MrGuvernment said:
it will be hacked and broken and work arounds made - it is a %100 garunteed - find me one piece of "anti" piracy code that has not been cracked to date....... often before it has even hit the store shelves....
Click to expand...

I'll agree with your statement, but to my knowledge you still can't copy bit for bit a SA(super audio)CD, for an example.
 
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but on linux, you won't be able to play the content at all. Right?

How is linux the answer?
 
Archer75 said:
It won't make any difference, you still won't be able to view protected HD content.

People, this isn't a Microsoft thing. It's a MPAA thing. Do you blame apple for the DRM in the MP3's they sell in itunes? It's the same thing.

OSX and Linux will follow suit if you want to be able to view protected HD content in those Operating Systems.

This isn't for all HD content. Only the stuff that is protected. And again, it will also be in HD DVD and Blue Ray and requires certain hardware support from set top boxes and HDTV's. So it's not limited to computers.
Click to expand...

This the most interesting point about this debacle. I forsee non-DRM encumbered HD content produced overseas quickly trumping that produced for US markets. Why buy American goods that won't work with your stuff when you can buy it from Taiwan for half the price and doesn't require any upgrades? This is the economic boiling point that people don't think about when they thump their DRM stick around. In the end they piss off their would-be customers, and in no small number drive them away completely. Yeah, that's a great business model to adopt.

Long story short, vote with your wallet. To defeat DRM in HD will take nothing less than the effort it took to kill Divx.
 
Phoenix86 said:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but on linux, you won't be able to play the content at all. Right?

How is linux the answer?
Click to expand...

How? Well if there is a mass-exedus to Linux then ppl will not be buying the media in this new standard that is MS-ONLY (plus dedicated hardware players). IF such medium does not sell then it seaces to be manufactured.

Eqaully IF it is put downto DRM is the reason Windows is not selling they will, in an effort to reverse the exedus release a version (bringing the total to 12) of Vista with no DRM.


Market power is the only way to stop this.
Look at sony and the whole root-kit thing, they are not putting it on their CD's anymore. I know 100ppl that are not buying Sony again. I recently bought an MP3 player and although I know Sony-tech is exelent I went for a Creative Zen:VisionM (which is extreamly good and great sound quality). I will never buy Sony again


Market power ppl. I am already spreading the word abt vista at work (500odd) abt the hidden restrictions with Vista, at least 50odd are interested in Linux (pointing them towards SuSe or Ubuntu). I apreaciate Linux is not for everyone (yet) but neither is an OS-upgrade


Eqaually I am sure that the DRM will be cracked and thus making the medium playable on Linux. IF it is shown that Windows is being used to lock ppl in the Good Old EU will soon slap MS a big fine again and force them to open it up, be it by providing libs for other OS's at the very least
 
Phoenix86 said:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but on linux, you won't be able to play the content at all. Right?

How is linux the answer?
Click to expand...
Duh, it's always the answer to anything negative about Windows...even things that aren't Microsoft's fault!
 
I'd be solely on Linux now if I could play all my games under its covering natively without using Wine or similar proggie

..with Uncle Bill and the gang , next thing you know they will find away to have their OS "break" should it detect that its being dual-booted with something else :rolleyes:


 
It's not linux that is the answer, it is free software. Someone can still release proprietary software for linux, that would uphold the treacherous 'features' of digital restrictions management.

Phoenix86 said:
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but on linux, you won't be able to play the content at all. Right?

How is linux the answer?
Click to expand...
 
serbiaNem said:
Since when is, ":p", a proper grammatical symbol? ;)
Click to expand...
Since you put it in quotations, and waited until after the question mark to put your wink. ;)
 
just a re-clarification, i have 0 interest in viewing hd-dvd content on my pc, but will this drm move to pc games and programs provided by a third-party?
 
Qwertyman said:
just a re-clarification, i have 0 interest in viewing hd-dvd content on my pc, but will this drm move to pc games and programs provided by a third-party?
Click to expand...

Now that is more interesting...
My media setup by far outweighs what my PC can do (lovely Arcam amp with Eltax floorspeakers and all that yazz). My DVD's get played on the DVD player, only time they go near hte PC is if I want a screenshot of a certain scene (then into linux)


IF this BS goes anywhere near games programs OR operating systems (via that effing chip) THAT is a different story
 
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