Vista DRM

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nobody_here

[H]F Junkie
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can someone PLEASE show me how Vista has EVER stopped them from doing ANYTHING as far as DRM goes.....please

i have been running x64 Ultimate for a long time now and not ONCE have i had VIsta EVER get in the way ro refuse to do ANYTHING i tell it to do as it relates to DRM

help me understand exactly what all the DRM fuss is all about!

i have edited, recorded, played back, encoded, decoded, ran virtual drives...etc.....nothing has ever gone wrong, same experience as with XP

someone fill me in because there must be one specific way of working with one specific file type with one specific application that does not work where Vista pops up with a message saying "all your .avi's belong to us!!"

:rolleyes:
 
Even the fudsters gave up on this a while ago. Well, most did at least. Ed Bott already debunked the world's worst security "researcher" Peter Gutmann's ignorant (as in his own admission he never used Vista) rant. It's not really pointing at anything concrete, it's the innuendo that is supposed to imply how evil DRM *can be*. And that also applies to things that have nothing to do with DRM, but are pinned on it.

The last problem I read was that MS was honoring the broadcast flag, when it is not mandatory to do so (prevents copying of broadcast HDTV programs). That also affects XP MCE, but allegedly it was enabled accidentally by the broadcaster (right). There was also the problem with degraded gigabit network throughput while playing media. Then there's the other thing where the ICT is enabled in future BD movies will force 1/4 resolution, which affects all supported platforms and playback devices.
 
pxc said:
The last problem I read was that MS was honoring the broadcast flag, when it is not mandatory to do so (prevents copying of broadcast HDTV programs).
Click to expand...

Has it been enabled by broadcasters? Not that I've recorded any HD content since June, but I haven't a problem recording using Vista x64. This is OTA HD too.
 
OP,
My only annoyance with Vista is the way UAC will freeze video when authenticating. Oddly, audio is not affected. I don't know if it's related to DRM.

Also, one of my main annoyances with PC DRM has to do with HDCP. Imagine having a nice Dell 2405 or 2005 FWP and not being able to (legally) play your Blue Ray or HD-DVD content at full resolution or at all.

I'm not going to blame MS entirely over this as I realize its a complicated issue, but I do wish they were more consumer orriented than industry orriented.
 
As far as I know, Vista DRM doesn't even get 'turned on' until like 2011. Even then, it's only for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, I think.
 
try changing/upgrading your processor and watch the fun start. I went through this twice this week when I switched processors on my Vista system to see what performance was like on the new E8300. After rebooting a lot of things didn't work - basically anything that played media - and I don't have a single DRM'd thing on my machine. The only fix was to delete all the DRM files (which if I had bought anything that was DRM'd would have been even more painful.)

The fact that the DRM implementation bites you when you upgrade your processor - even if you haven't used it - is a big pain IMO.
 
schulzpm said:
The fact that the DRM implementation bites you when you upgrade your processor - even if you haven't used it - is a big pain IMO.
Click to expand...

So let me get this straight.. You are saying that for every single person in the world, every single processor they change, they will absolutely, 100% of the time, have the exact same problem you are having?
 
SuperSubZero said:
So let me get this straight.. You are saying that for every single person in the world, every single processor they change, they will absolutely, 100% of the time, have the exact same problem you are having?
Click to expand...

Well, I changed my processor twice this week and it happened both times. The errors were weird and esoteric (like trying to update my performance score gave me a message that it could not complete), but ultimately they led me here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/891664

That sure makes it sound like it will happen to every user...

bigdogchris said:
As far as I know, Vista DRM doesn't even get 'turned on' until like 2011. Even then, it's only for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, I think.
Click to expand...
It is definitely on from my experience - and I don't even use it.
 
I changed a Vista64 machine from a Q6600 to a E2000 series (don't remember exactly which one), and everything was just fine, or at least haven't heard about any complaints with DVDs or MP3's.
 
try changing/upgrading your processor and watch the fun start. I went through this twice this week when I switched processors on my Vista system to see what performance was like on the new E8300. After rebooting a lot of things didn't work - basically anything that played media - and I don't have a single DRM'd thing on my machine. The only fix was to delete all the DRM files (which if I had bought anything that was DRM'd would have been even more painful.)

The fact that the DRM implementation bites you when you upgrade your processor - even if you haven't used it - is a big pain IMO.
Click to expand...

I changed from an E6400 to a Q6600 and had the same issue. I just ran sysprep and all was good.
 
schulzpm said:
Well, I changed my processor twice this week and it happened both times. The errors were weird and esoteric (like trying to update my performance score gave me a message that it could not complete), but ultimately they led me here:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/891664

That sure makes it sound like it will happen to every user...


It is definitely on from my experience - and I don't even use it.
Click to expand...
Interesting.. never had that happen to me, and I've swapped out many components in my Vista builds. --processors, motherboards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc. Just do a system repair with the Vista disk and you're good to go, that is if you even run into that problem.
 
pxc said:
It's not really pointing at anything concrete, it's the innuendo that is supposed to imply how evil DRM *can be*. And that also applies to things that have nothing to do with DRM, but are pinned on it.
Click to expand...

schulzpm said:
try changing/upgrading your processor and watch the fun start. I went through this twice this week when I switched processors on my Vista system to see what performance was like on the new E8300. After rebooting a lot of things didn't work - basically anything that played media - and I don't have a single DRM'd thing on my machine. The only fix was to delete all the DRM files (which if I had bought anything that was DRM'd would have been even more painful.)

The fact that the DRM implementation bites you when you upgrade your processor - even if you haven't used it - is a big pain IMO.
Click to expand...
Thanks for supplying the perfect example of what I was talking about above. Your problems after changing processors has nothing to do with DRM. :p

I have switched between dual and quad core processors on 2 different motherboards with no problems.
 
pxc said:
Thanks for supplying the perfect example of what I was talking about above. Your problems after changing processors has nothing to do with DRM. :p

I have switched between dual and quad core processors on 2 different motherboards with no problems.
Click to expand...


i was going to say.....i could not find the relevance either

DRM = Digital Rights Management

the problem he reported sounds like Vista activation issues, completely different thing
 
jimmyb said:
Vista doesn't support DVD playback on RPC-1 drives.
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Not a big deal since those affected "RPC1" drives were last manufactured over 8.5 years ago, unless you've made a 1337 hack to your drive firmware on drives manufactured after that. Vista has no problem playing back DVDs without region encoding.

http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2005/12/09/502014.aspx

It's actually not just a Vista thing either. It was a change to the licensing of official DVD support and you'll run into the same problem with licensed players on other OSs too. If you "work around" it on other OSs, you can also do the same under Vista.
 
XP MCE did listen to the inexplicably-used, and legally-defeated broadcast flag for an episode of American Gladiators. DRM can suck it for that one.
 
It's getting to the point where DRM should stand for Doesn't Really Matter (nearly as much as the DRM whiners would like).
 
When watching Netflix movies (watch it now) sometimes my secondary display won't authenticate and will be half scrambled. Never had this problem in XP x64. Running Vista Ultimate x64. Turning it off and back on usually fixes it.
 
I had no problems nor seen any hint of DRM restrictions in Vista. Its all FUD.

Same goes for the Zune. Fanbois etc. straight away go on about it being 'filled with DRM'. Nope it isnt. I havent seen any.
 
dobieg2002 said:
I changed from an E6400 to a Q6600 and had the same issue. I just ran sysprep and all was good.
Click to expand...

After googling sysprep, I stumbled on this link: [http://www.windows-noob.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=195]

Please remember if you are testing SYSPREP that you should limit the total number of syspreps to 3 times maximum otherwise you may experience unusual problems.
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Is this implying a limit on sysprep? And is sysprep always going to be necessary for typical hardware changes, particularly common areas (CPU, GPU, or RAM).

*I'm considering a move to Vista x64 in the near future, so seeing this is making me somewhat apprehensive.
 
nobody_here said:
um, thats not DRM from what i can gather, thats Windows activation thinking you just may have moved the installation over to a different machine, nothing to do with DRM
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You are wrong. It had nothing to do with activation, it caused media center to crash when using a TV tuner. The solution was to delete a hidden OS folder titled DRM which reset it.

I may be going out on a limb, but I think if the solution is to delete a folder titled DRM, it might have something to with DRM.
 
lol, why haven't I had that problem then? Also, why would microsoft make bypassing DRM as easy as deleting one folder? hah
 
daglesj said:
Same goes for the Zune. Fanbois etc. straight away go on about it being 'filled with DRM'. Nope it isnt. I havent seen any.
Click to expand...

Well, it supports DRM.. like pretty much every other music player. I just don't see how it's a negative thing that you have the option of playing DRMed content, which you can choose to use or not use. If it didn't come with DRM, then you could only play unprotected content; with DRM, you can play unprotected content or protected content.

Mav451 said:
Is this implying a limit on sysprep?
Click to expand...

I don't think that sysprep is an officially-sanctioned thing to do when you upgrade the system anyway - it's meant to be used on an image before deployment. However, the issue with using sysprep /generalize more than three times would be that it can be used to reset Windows activation up to three times (in XP or Vista), but no more:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299840/

However, you can get around that by using SkipRearm, specified in an unattend.xml file in the arguments for sysprep:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929828
 
Ive changed the processor in this machine 3 times in the last year (e6300 --> Q6700 --> QX6850) and have never had a problem playing back media of any kind. This is with vista64 btw
 
pxc said:
Not a big deal since those affected "RPC1" drives were last manufactured over 8.5 years ago, unless you've made a 1337 hack to your drive firmware on drives manufactured after that. Vista has no problem playing back DVDs without region encoding.

[...]

It's actually not just a Vista thing either.
Click to expand...

Well, it is a Vista thing in that you can use RPC-1 drives for DVD playback officially on XP, and many other OSes, and you can't on Vista. I'm not sure what better criteria there is to call it a "Vista thing". Whether or not MS is legally obliged to do it doesn't really change the reality of the situation; that being it is a Vista thing.

There are indeed many workarounds to the issue; I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where VLC dvd playback is legal.

In any case, the OP asked whether Vista DRM had ever gotten in the way of anything, and I provided an answer.
 
zupahwez0e said:
Ive changed the processor in this machine 3 times in the last year (e6300 --> Q6700 --> QX6850) and have never had a problem playing back media of any kind. This is with vista64 btw
Click to expand...

Do you use a TV tuner? The problem is that it uses the processor as part of the DRM flag that marks recordings. Since I had upgraded it, my computer didn't match its own flag, which made things go fubar. Resetting it fixed the problem.
 
jimmyb said:
Well, it is a Vista thing in that you can use RPC-1 drives for DVD playback officially on XP, and many other OSes, and you can't on Vista. I'm not sure what better criteria there is to call it a "Vista thing". Whether or not MS is legally obliged to do it doesn't really change the reality of the situation; that being it is a Vista thing.

There are indeed many workarounds to the issue; I'm fortunate enough to live in a country where VLC dvd playback is legal.

In any case, the OP asked whether Vista DRM had ever gotten in the way of anything, and I provided an answer.
Click to expand...

Except that it's not a Vista DRM issue, it's a driver support issue.
 
ryan_975 said:
Except that it's not a Vista DRM issue, it's a driver support issue.
Click to expand...

The only difference between RPC-2 and RPC-1 drives is that RPC-2 drives will refuse to hand over the decryption keys if the disc's region doesn't match that of the drive.

You have to intentionally remove support for them, or create a system which is inherently incompatible with them.
 
jimmyb said:
The only difference between RPC-2 and RPC-1 drives is that RPC-2 drives will refuse to hand over the decryption keys if the disc's region doesn't match that of the drive.

You have to intentionally remove support for them, or create a system which is inherently incompatible with them.
Click to expand...


The only thing missing is the region checking that the DVD-forum require it's licensees to do in software because the original DVD-ROM drives didn't do it. It's not the serious of a problem. And it's a completely separate issue from Vista's DRM.
 
ryan_975 said:
The only thing missing is the region checking that the DVD-forum require it's licensees to do in software because the original DVD-ROM drives didn't do it.
Click to expand...

I don't dispute that, but RPC-1 playback is supported in XP and many other operating systems. So this is a case of Vista stopping people from doing something that they can do on other OSes, as per the OP's question.

They could also be using license-free decryption techniques.
 
jimmyb said:
Well, it is a Vista thing in that you can use RPC-1 drives for DVD playback officially on XP,
Click to expand...
And 2000/XP will set the region code based on the first disc you play and decrement the change counter... unless you use workarounds like I mentioned (hacked firmware or otherwise). It's not as wide open as you suggest, unless you use workarounds and those are also possible under Vista. Or you could just use 3rd party playback software under Vista.
 
pxc said:
And 2000/XP will set the region code based on the first disc you play and decrement the change counter... unless you use workarounds like I mentioned (hacked firmware or otherwise). It's not as wide open as you suggest, unless you use workarounds and those are also possible under Vista.
Click to expand...
I don't think I ever made any suggestion as to how wide open it was in XP/2000; just that RPC-1 drives won't work for DVD playback in any "official" capacity on Vista.

Yes this problem will rarely be encountered by anyone.
Yes this problem has workarounds (albeit some illegal depending on where you are).
Yes I correctly answered the OP's question.

I think some of you guys think I'm trying to attack Vista. Really, I'm not. I use it on a daily basis and have relatively little issue with it. I was just trying to answer the OP's question. It's disingenuous to suggest that this isn't a DRM issue on Vista though.
 
I think the issue is that DRM has some serious potential to be really bad. As it is now its just a minor annoyance for few people but its still there.
 
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