Vista bug free?

[infornographer]

XP was a skinned classic interface.

Wrong. XP's interface was called Luna, and it's just about as much a reskinning of Classic as Aero was a reskin of Luna.

Vista is more than that now (Aero). You either get classic or Vista.

or some would argue less. It wouldn't have required much of them to do it, at all. It's called laziness.

I highly doubt they'll EVER had back-versions of Windows. You'll always get the current version (Vista) and a classic version.

That's because they were LAZY. : )

I just don't understand why this is a big deal though... Black (And better performance) vs. Green images.......

You honestly believe Aero performs better than Luna? Aero may repaint a little better, but I actually prefer Luna's behavior, and that glass mac ripoff looks like shit. I can only stand that DX-enabled scat porn for so long. If you really think black vs green is what's at issue here, go back to preschool and play with your crayons.

I guess they *could've* added in the XP theme, but then people would be bitching how much more bloated Vista is adding that crap in.
And where on earth do you see they are adding the XP theme back in?

It isn't just the THEME, and if you think adding customization options has anything to do with bloat, you're vastly mistaken about the meaning of bloat. Bloat would be having more things run resident. Nonbloat would be a series of easy options that allows a user to set which roles they use Vista for or display preferences. Options aren't bloat. Forced "features" are.

I didn't say they were adding it back in. They were filling out the skinned monstrosity's options. They finally added one familiar UI feature to resize the search bar that you CAN'T FUCKING REMOVE, and oh, let's make it so you have to buy a new OS called Windows 7 to do it! (unless maybe you enlisted some programmer's help to HOOK into the exe, which doesn't count.) It's a fascist design policy that arises from laziness.

(To anyone who thinks Windows 7 is irrelevant, you're wrong. Windows 7 Milestone 1 exists with confirmed changes via official screenshots, and that's what I'm referring to, and you can bet you aren't getting any of that in Vista. They slapped you in the face.)

Luna isn't just the default skin either. It's the whole design scheme that came with it.

This visual style is arguably better than Aero, and it's built on the basis of Luna:

Oh yeah, that address bar can be moved around. High tech shit, huh?

 

[TechieSooner]

Wrong. XP's interface was called Luna, and it's just about as much a reskinning of Classic as Aero was a reskin of Luna.

You honestly believe Aero performs better than Luna? It may repaint a little better, but I actually prefer its behavior, and that glass mac ripoff looks like shit.

I rest my case.
Anyone else around here (you know- the folks that actually know something about Vista) know exactly what I'm talking about when I were to bring up Aero and performance. You, on the other hand, have no idea. I think it rather comical at this point, and being you have you predetermined and preformed ideals, it'd be a waste of time to explain it.

or some would argue less. It wouldn't have required much of them to do it, at all. It's called laziness.
That's because they were LAZY. : )

No, it's called putting way too much effort, time, and resources into for something that 0.01% of the population would use.
Yes- they could add it. We could argue until the pigs fly whether they should or shouldn't, but this is really a minor thing...

It isn't just the THEME, and if you think adding customization options has anything to do with bloat, you're vastly mistaken about the meaning of bloat.

No? Adding XP's images to the install of Vista, doesn't add space?

I didn't say they were adding it back in.

No?

They reskinned it, added features (which I would argue aren't ADDED until they can be customized, rather, forced down our throats), but tossed out a bunch of useful ones that they're SLOWLY READDING

Windows 7 Milestone 1 exists with confirmed changes via official screenshots

I haven't seen nor heard of any official screenshots- care to share?

 

[infornographer]

I rest my case.
Anyone else around here (you know- the folks that actually know something about Vista) know exactly what I'm talking about when I were to bring up Aero and performance. You, on the other hand, have no idea. I think it rather comical at this point, and being you have you predetermined and preformed ideals, it'd be a waste of time to explain it.

I know. It's a DirectX enabled interface. Woopty do. I know where it adds performance, and where it takes it away.

Stop referring to the invisible audience. Argumentum ad populem is fucking retarded.

No, it's called putting way too much effort, time, and resources into for something that 0.01% of the population would use.
Yes- they could add it. We could argue until the pigs fly whether they should or shouldn't, but this is really a minor thing...

0.01%? Did you know 99.99% of forum users with the nick of TechiSooner talk out of their ass? Well now you do.

No? Adding XP's images to the install of Vista, doesn't add space?

OOOO. Space? OOOOO. How much? How much do you think it adds, genius?

I haven't seen nor heard of any official screenshots- care to share?

You must live in a CAVE.

 

[TechieSooner]

I know. It's a DirectX enabled interface. Woopty do. I know where it adds performance, and where it takes it away.

Striiiiiiiiiiiiikkkkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeee 1............................

You must live in a CAVE.

I must... but considering you failed to provide a link to said "official screenshots"... They fail to exist.
Only ones I am aware of are Paul's, in which case they are not official.
Most likely credible? Yes.
Official? No.

 

[infornographer]

Strike 1? Are you an umpire or something? Not everything is about FPS. Maybe some of the performance I was talking about were UI features.. Usability performance. Ever heard of that?

Windows 7 Milestone 1 is official. Those screenshots were confirmed by Microsoft. I don't know how much more official you want to get here.

 

[TechieSooner]

Strike 1? Are you an umpire or something? Not everything is about FPS. Maybe some of the performance I was talking about were UI features.. Usability performance. Ever heard of that?

Backpedaling a wee bit???
Still enjoying your ignorance in this bit right here, so I don't feel like cluing you in. Maybe someone else will.

Windows 7 Milestone 1 is official. Those screenshots were confirmed by Microsoft. I don't know how much more official you want to get here.

Once more- you spout this shit off but can't back it up to save your life.

Edit:
Anywho.... For me........... /thread
"Don't feed the trolls" came to mind.

 

[infornographer]

No, I'm not backpedaling at all. I already said it repaints better.

You know how to condescend. That's it.

You can call me a troll if you want, but it would only be because I have legitimate claims about Vista. You argued with me about the stipulation of the word "official" rather than address how you feel about the search bar only being resizable in Windows 7 Milestone 1. That's a strawman.

Note: you could call me a troll if this thread were "Why Vista Is My Favorite Operating System." As it stands, this thread is "Vista bug free?" I'm on topic. You're a Vista evangelist. You're trolling this thread moreso by thread definition than I am.

 

[infornographer]

If I'm a troll, ZDNet editors in that video are trolling too:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1412
Quote: "Microsoft blew it with Windows Vista"
"Do you wait to go to Windows 7? [...] That's what they're trying to prevent."

Another article:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1285

You're a sheepie.

 

[heatlesssun]

If I'm a troll, ZDNet editors in that video are trolling too:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1412
Quote: "Microsoft blew it with Windows Vista"
"Do you wait to go to Windows 7? [...] That's what they're trying to prevent."

Another article:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1285

You're a sheepie.

Are you saying that those witch rock solid kick as Vista systems are sheep? You don't like Vista, you and every other "expert" have picked it apart. Say what you will about Vista but the there's at least one group that hasn't picked it apart, hackers.

You talk a lot about Windows 7, and guess what, it's going to have far more in common with Vista than XP. The driver model will remain the same so that's a huge similarity.

Vista is not perfect. Vista has its flaws. We all know this. But claiming XP's superiority is just plain pointless. You like XP better. I know a lot of people other people who feel the same. What I have noticed however how the perception changes when you go up the food chain in hardware.

Look at the number of gamers on these forums with quad-core systems and powerful GPU's. Very few are still on XP. Most seem to fine from what I can tell.

So this isn't a zero sum game. You like XP, and that's cool. I'm not going to convince that Vista is better and you'll stick with XP until you move on. That's fine. To me, building a $3000 rig with new top of the line hardware and top tier software that all supports Vista, that's just not XP's gig anymore. Top line enthusiasts are all pretty much on Vista now and that's the platform that will be better supported from now on. There just aren't that many people that are going to buy two or three GTX 280's and put then in a Vista rig.

So if were are sheep in your book, that's cool. XP's days as the top gaming OS on the PC are done. Drivers for this type of hardware are going to get better support in Vista now as the base has moved on.

I'll say it again, Vista with top end hardware and software simply rocks. There just aren't that many problems with the good stuff. You have all your tweaks and hacks and things like that and that's cool. As an enthusiast, I want great stuff that works well out of the box and supports the latest and greatest. That's simply not XP['s role anymore.

It's a legacy OS. And its going to be REALLY legacy when 7 arrives. And those that have made the transition to Vista will have a lot easier time with 7

 

[Arainach]

If I'm a troll, ZDNet editors in that video are trolling too:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1412
Quote: "Microsoft blew it with Windows Vista"
"Do you wait to go to Windows 7? [...] That's what they're trying to prevent."

Another article:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1285

You're a sheepie.

You still haven't provided your source where the "Milestone 1 screenshots" are declared official. Not to mention - that's M1 - VERY early in development. Any substantial changes most likely wouldn't happen until later milestones. Even if they did, it'd be in Microsoft's best interest to keep any radical changes secret until near beta/launch to prevent both Mac/Linux from ripping them off and people like you from deciding to hate them before they were even finished.

 

[heatlesssun]

Windows 7 is at least two years away from general release. I really don't know how it matters now. They probably have hit a milestone by now as the betas will have to be out some time next year for a 2010 release.

 

[infornographer]

You still haven't provided your source where the "Milestone 1 screenshots" are declared official.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1UnGOJnq9A
There's Eric Traut, a Microsoft employee showing off Windows 7 Milestone 1. That's as official as it gets.

"Traut became a Microsoft employee after the company purchased Connectix in 2003. He currently works for Microsoft in Redmond, Washington as a Distinguished Engineer. His current project is MinWin, a minikernel planned to be the heart of Windows 7."

If you think allowing for XP-like behavior is "bloat," virtualization will blow you away. : p

Windows 7 matters to people like myself whose upgrade path is unnecessary for at least 2 years, which is when Windows 7 is slated to release.

 

[SuperSubZero]

You honestly believe Aero performs better than Luna? Aero may repaint a little better, but I actually prefer Luna's behavior, and that glass mac ripoff looks like shit.

I see people sometimes refer to the "stealing Mac" stuff, but I really fail to see it. I'm not sure if you've seen OS X lately, but there's no glass look to it at all. OS X went "metal" themed ages ago. I'm not sure where people get the idea it's all some Mac copy. It has slightly rounded windows, which is about the only thing I can see that *might* indicate it was copied.

 

[infornographer]

I would've been more impressed by Vista's Aero had they done more than one theme. I just don't really like the glass + transparency effect. This is opinion of course. They could've also allowed 3rd parties to make their down UI themes, but they didn't. You still have to patch uxtheme just the same as before in XP. You get glass, transparency on/off and a color slider, and that's it. If you don't like it, turn off Aero. That's just stupid. I like the technology, just not how they used it.

 

[heatlesssun]

I would've been more impressed by Vista's Aero had they done more than one theme. I just don't really like the glass + transparency effect. This is opinion of course. They could've also allowed 3rd parties to make their down UI themes, but they didn't. You still have to patch uxtheme just the same as before in XP.

You're forgetting WindowBlinds. That works fine in Vista.

 

[infornographer]

You're forgetting WindowBlinds. That works fine in Vista.

I'm not forgetting WindowBlinds. That's a commercial program that has to HOOK into windows. No matter how much you think that's fine, it isn't. Having a secondary third party program hook into processes creates lots of opportunities for weird behaviors, which WindowBlinds is chuck full of and their support cycle reveals it in their changelogs. I admire what they're doing, but I wouldn't run it. I don't consider it a solution.

Edit: Not to mention, you get to pay them for the privilege of running nonnative themes: http://www.stardock.com/products/windowblinds/purchase.asp

The visual style I showed you earlier is native. I removed the signature check on uxthemes to load it. Windows uses the new theme file as though it were luna itself. WindowBlinds is another layer of complexity and will never perform exactly the same way as Aero.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm not forgetting WindowBlinds. That's a commercial program that has to HOOK into windows. No matter how much you think that's fine, it isn't. Having a secondary third party program hook into processes creates lots of opportunities for weird behaviors, which WindowBlinds is chuck full of and their support cycle reveals it in their changelogs. I admire what they're doing, but I wouldn't run it. I don't consider it a solution.

If you say so. I've been running it for a year on Vista, seems to be a lot more solid than under XP, but no its not perfect, but the good themes don't have problems That said, if skinning is your deal, then Windows, any version is not the place to be. It's always been an after thought in Windows and I kind of understand.

Windows is a mass market OS, theming is something that matters to very few and causes its own set of problems.

 

[infornographer]

Skinning isn't really my deal. I'm wondering which operating system doesn't wish to have mass market appeal and how leaving encryption off of the skinning system in windows has ANYTHING to do with being mass marketed. It isn't that it would take them any effort. They took efforts to prevent the ability to skin natively.

 

[heatlesssun]

Because skins change the look and feel of the OS and that adds complexity, plain and simple. Windows has never been about customizing the UI, though I can see that changing simply to keep the UI fresh and hip.

 

[infornographer]

besides, one day I'll run something that's a later patched version of Vista or Windows 7. If someone releases a set of quality apps to revert some of my UI gripes, I'll probably end up using it sooner than Windows 7. The big thing for me is that I don't play the new games or recode movies, so running more than the specs on my signature is stupid. I agree that most of the features they added, if you tell me to get beyond the lack of options, are very useful to most people, and I'm glad that the general public is having the bar raised.

I love Windows, always will, but only as an operating system for its industry support. However, I'm not going to use the bundled software, no matter how hard they code it in.

I use lots of free software that requires more knowledge and searching to find and use, but that's the way I am. I also use a ramdisk driver, so I've nearly emulated superboost in a round about way. Most people won't modify XP that much, so for most people, Vista is better. I do tend to treat XP like my own little distro, but if it's built to allow that, I'm going to do it. It doesn't mean I should use Linux.

I guess I bought into the Vista beta hype when it was being developed and was let down. I wanted WinFS, powershell on by default, and many of the other things they planned. That level of change isn't going to happen in the Vista iteration. Many of the biggest benefits to people in Vista are to people who aren't already using better 3rd party software. Those people who use Outlook Express are likely blown away by Windows Mail, for example, but I would never use a nonweb-based mail client, so that's moot. That's the story for most of the features, and the core features I was most excited about and that would impact me the most were held off.

 

[infornographer]

Video: http://gizmodo.com/393568/windows-7-features-revealed
That's more on Windows 7 from last night. It's not just speculation. This is very real. 18 months is a blink of the eye as far as tech is concerned.

.. or are Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer not official enough for you?

 

[infornographer]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865
http://www.privoxy.org/
http://www.admuncher.com/

 

[Mithent]

"Traut became a Microsoft employee after the company purchased Connectix in 2003. He currently works for Microsoft in Redmond, Washington as a Distinguished Engineer. His current project is MinWin, a minikernel planned to be the heart of Windows 7."

Although I must note that Windows 7 is not going to have a substantially redesigned kernel (although the MinWin project may have influenced the direction they're going in):
"Contrary to some speculation, Microsoft is not creating a new kernel for Windows 7. Rather, we are refining the kernel architecture and componentization model introduced in Windows Vista."
http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2008/05/27/communicating-windows-7.aspx

From what they're saying about Windows 7 so far, it seems like it's going to be a refinement of Vista, not a dramatically different OS; sure, there will be new features, but it's going to be based on the Vista kernel and architecture. Rather like Windows XP was to Windows 2000. Purely by not being called "Vista" it will probably do a lot better! It remains to be seen whether it will provide a compelling upgrade path from Vista though.

 

[griffinhart]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1UnGOJnq9A
There's Eric Traut, a Microsoft employee showing off Windows 7 Milestone 1. That's as official as it gets.

"Traut became a Microsoft employee after the company purchased Connectix in 2003. He currently works for Microsoft in Redmond, Washington as a Distinguished Engineer. His current project is MinWin, a minikernel planned to be the heart of Windows 7."

If you think allowing for XP-like behavior is "bloat," virtualization will blow you away. : p

Windows 7 matters to people like myself whose upgrade path is unnecessary for at least 2 years, which is when Windows 7 is slated to release.

All he showed was Virtual PC and under Virtual PC he showed MinWin which is based on Windows 7 source code, but for internal use only with no plans for "productization." And it was only running a very basic HTML service that he said isn't anywhere near enough to run a modern web server with. It's also worth mentioning that Win7's source code is still based in Vista's core.

 

[griffinhart]

Video: http://gizmodo.com/393568/windows-7-features-revealed
That's more on Windows 7 from last night. It's not just speculation. This is very real. 18 months is a blink of the eye as far as tech is concerned.

.. or are Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer not official enough for you?

MS made all sorts of claims about Vista's release date as well. How did that work out?

Frankly, at this point no one should really take Bill Gates statements as something set in stone. He has barely over a month left before he's out of there anyway.