VisionTek Radeon X800Pro Review

Thanks, the issue is fixed. I have removed this so folks do not get confused with two versions floating around. - Kyle
 
I can't wait until the Sapphire Toxic X800XT PE boards are available. That is when I will buy one!
 
trudude said:
I can't wait until the Sapphire Toxic X800XT PE boards are available. That is when I will buy one!
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Well that and the HIS Excalibur X800 XT IceQ II. Both will be REALLY awesome.
 
Your reviews have matured quite a bit, and the added apples-to-apples comparison sort of completes the review. I still would like to see some more games in the apples-to-apples section though. Also, I wouldn't mind to see some other games besides the score of FPS's and the flight sim. Maybe a car game (ie. Need for Speed)?

In the UT2004 you state the max fps of the Visiontek to be 197fps while the max on the ATI part is 85fps. This correct? If so, why the big difference in performance? (the average fps seems to imply that the max fps should be 97 though).

Further, To quote the conclusion
""The VisionTek X800Pro and GeForce 6800Ultra come through our evaluation pretty much at a dead heat with a slight margin falling to the VisionTek X800Pro.""
I tend to agree, but the apples comparison shows the 6800U to come out on top with more than a slight margin. Sort of a conflicting message there. Yes, gameplaywise when looking at the non apples it seems as though the X800P comes out on top. However, when looking at the frames per second it almost looks like you could bump the resolution and AA+AF on the 6800U without killling the performance. In those instances (eg. Battlefiled Vietnam) it would be great to see the performance at the higher settings. Since you already completed the benches, it should be a breeze including them in the graph.

Overall, a great complement to the more "straight forward" reviews out there on the X800's and 6800's.
 
Nice review but how can you really compare it to something thats not in retail yet. Once all the cards hit retail with WHQL drivers then I wanna see a shootout between all the cards. But by the looks of it that won't be for another 2 months =P.
 
I was comparing the IQ between the cards and saw that the Visiontek card differs quite a lot form the ATI and the 6800 cards. Look at the beach line and you'll see there is no "white line" as in the other 2 screenshots. Maybe a miss in taking the screenshot? If not, what could have caused this graphics anomaly?
http://hardocp.com/images/articles/1086454522gIfgJP1IvU_3_7_l.jpg

This is the clearest example I can give, but overall it looks like the visiontek IQ is lower than the ATI part. I would point out on other images as well, but I dont have anywhere to upload images with arrows pointing out the "anomalies".
Maybe it is my eyes playing tricks on me, who knows?
 
Your reviews have matured quite a bit, and the added apples-to-apples comparison sort of completes the review. I still would like to see some more games in the apples-to-apples section though. Also, I wouldn't mind to see some other games besides the score of FPS's and the flight sim. Maybe a car game (ie. Need for Speed)?
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Thanks, more games possibly in apples to apples, noted, but we will probably stick with a low number, the real meat of our review is the highest playable section. More varying games though is a definite possibility. We dropped NFS:U because it is CPU bottlenecked on these high-end cards.

In the UT2004 you state the max fps of the Visiontek to be 197fps while the max on the ATI part is 85fps. This correct? If so, why the big difference in performance? (the average fps seems to imply that the max fps should be 97 though).
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That is what you call a typo, heh. Fixed now, the average is taken from all the numbers per second from start to finish, not just the min and max numbers. Fraps does this automagicaly.

Further, To quote the conclusion
""The VisionTek X800Pro and GeForce 6800Ultra come through our evaluation pretty much at a dead heat with a slight margin falling to the VisionTek X800Pro.""
I tend to agree, but the apples comparison shows the 6800U to come out on top with more than a slight margin. Sort of a conflicting message there. Yes, gameplaywise when looking at the non apples it seems as though the X800P comes out on top. However, when looking at the frames per second it almost looks like you could bump the resolution and AA+AF on the 6800U without killling the performance. In those instances (eg. Battlefiled Vietnam) it would be great to see the performance at the higher settings. Since you already completed the benches, it should be a breeze including them in the graph.

Overall, a great complement to the more "straight forward" reviews out there on the X800's and 6800's.
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Noted, Thanks.
 
DanD said:
Nice review but how can you really compare it to something thats not in retail yet. Once all the cards hit retail with WHQL drivers then I wanna see a shootout between all the cards. But by the looks of it that won't be for another 2 months =P.
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Yes, I think that is fair. The 6800U is about to enter retail and that card is representative of what you will be able to purches.
 
Calavaro said:
I was comparing the IQ between the cards and saw that the Visiontek card differs quite a lot form the ATI and the 6800 cards. Look at the beach line and you'll see there is no "white line" as in the other 2 screenshots. Maybe a miss in taking the screenshot? If not, what could have caused this graphics anomaly?
http://hardocp.com/images/articles/1086454522gIfgJP1IvU_3_7_l.jpg

This is the clearest example I can give, but overall it looks like the visiontek IQ is lower than the ATI part. I would point out on other images as well, but I dont have anywhere to upload images with arrows pointing out the "anomalies".
Maybe it is my eyes playing tricks on me, who knows?
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I'll have to look into that, I didn't even notice it till now. It could just be that the water is dynamic, i.e. flows back and forth, and when I took the shot the water was in the 'receeded' mode. Perhaps that is, I will check it out!
 
Calavaro said:
""The VisionTek X800Pro and GeForce 6800Ultra come through our evaluation pretty much at a dead heat with a slight margin falling to the VisionTek X800Pro.""

I tend to agree, but the apples comparison shows the 6800U to come out on top with more than a slight margin. Sort of a conflicting message there.
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I think the glaring message is that those apples to apples benchmarks don't really mean that much when it comes to REAL gameplay and pushing the IQ forward. It simply is not linear.
 
Brent_Justice said:
I'll have to look into that, I didn't even notice it till now. It could just be that the water is dynamic, i.e. flows back and forth, and when I took the shot the water was in the 'receeded' mode. Perhaps that is, I will check it out!
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Ok, I just looked at it, indeed in that scene the water on the shore is dynamic, it is moving back and forth, it moves all the way back and the whiteness around the shore line dissapears, so I must have snapped the shot when the water was moving away from the shore.
 
Calavaro said:
I tend to agree, however you could put the final nail in that coffin by showing it by increasing the visual settings in benchmarks where the 6800U is quite far ahead in fps (ie. Battlefield Vietnam where the difference is 33-34fps). Show both for the lower and higher settings (for the 6800U in this case) and we will see immediately how the score drops and ends up... well where?
This is of course not needed in every graph, just where one card is x amount of fps ahead of the other.
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That graph did not show the lowest framerates we got in the game which were while zooming through the trees. When we did that the performance went far down into the 20's on the 6800U at those settings.

Increasing to 1600x1200 made the performance in that scenario drop into the teens. I explained this in the review.

The settings we are using encompass the entire game not just that graph. The graph is a tiny reflection of the performance in BF:V. Unfortunately we cannot graph every single level in every possible scenario that may come up in the game in every single game.

We can show screenshots though in parts of the game were the performance drops, that is an improvement in the reviews we can make.
 
Calavaro said:
I tend to agree, however you could put the final nail in that coffin by showing it by increasing the visual settings in benchmarks where the 6800U is quite far ahead in fps (ie. Battlefield Vietnam where the difference is 33-34fps). Show both for the lower and higher settings (for the 6800U in this case) and we will see immediately how the score drops and ends up... well where?
This is of course not needed in every graph, just where one card is x amount of fps ahead of the other.
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I will simply say this. If HardOCP does not have enough apples to apples benchmarks for you, you can certainly find that sort of content at many other sites. We are not going to spend a lot of resources on it as it is not impacting our evaluation process. :)
 
Great review as always from you guys. Considering the OC you guys got I can't wait to get one of these bad boys and slap a waterblock and some ramsinks on it! /evilgrin.
 
trudude said:
Thanks, the issue is fixed. I have removed this so folks do not get confused with two versions floating around. - Kyle
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Good deal...I am VERY impressed with the overclockability of this card. It would be very interesting to see the benchs with this card modded to an XT. I wonder how well the XT's are gonna OC seeing how they "should" be a better batch of chips...
 
I would like take issue with the fact that most of the IQ comparisons used a smaller image for the Geforce..surely this isn't a fair comparison, especially in the case of the shading comparisons, even if the primary aim is to show IQ differences between the Visiontek and the reference board.

Would you please comment on this?
 
PhyberOptik said:
I would like take issue with the fact that most of the IQ comparisons used a smaller image for the Geforce..surely this isn't a fair comparison, especially in the case of the shading comparisons, even if the primary aim is to show IQ differences between the Visiontek and the reference board.

Would you please comment on this?
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The screenshots were taken at the highest playable resolution and quality settings which we tested at so that you can see the differences in IQ.

In the case of FarCry we did do some same resolution aa/af settings to make comparisons. Some of the other games also ended up having the same resolution as well, Splinter Cell, FS2004 etc... since those were the highest playable settings.

So you got to see both ways in the review.
 
just wondering, dont mean anything bad about it. what do you consider playable settings? minimum 30+fps or more?
thx

im more of a apples vs apples guy and im glad you guys didnt move too far away from it in this review. overall good review, as most of the above stated. :)
 
Bad_Boy said:
just wondering, dont mean anything bad about it. what do you consider playable settings? minimum 30+fps or more?
thx

im more of a apples vs apples guy and im glad you guys didnt move too far away from it in this review. overall good review, as most of the above stated. :)
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Playable settings are not necessarily static, but we use a minimum of 30 fps as a rule of thumb. Playable settings are truly ones that allow the user to experience the game without obvious slow downs or lag. Basically "fluid gaming." Yes, this is subjective.
 
Overall very nice review. I do want to comment on all the "apples to apples' comparisons here tho. It would seem that no one has taken issue with the fast that the cards reveiwed are not even apples to apples. We are looking at results from X800 Pro and GeForce 6800 Ultra. Not trying to sound like a fanATIc but I think the X800 did very well. I am still sitting on the fence waiting for the retail cards and the dust to settle before I make a nVidia/ATi decision.
 
On the warranty, what companies need to do is include an extra fan in the box so the user can change it 3 years down the road.
The card rarely fails on its own, what happens is the fan goes bad, and if you don't catch it, the card fries.
The problem is, most fans on video cards are unique. For example, the fans on my Leadtek Ti4400 are making noise. I had to order direct from Leadtek for $10, but they sent me the entire heat sink that has the two fans on it.
Most of the time, you end up getting a bunch of extra cables in the box you never use.
I'd rather have the extra fan included in the box instead of all the cables. If you need some special cable, let the user order it for free. Same for the fan. If I need a new one 3 years down the road, it should be free.
 
Great review Kyle and Brent !

I can't wait to see you guys review the MSI X800 Pro. I just picked one up this weekend and mine overclocks to 585 / 1175 rock solid. Is it me or are the graphics "brighter" on the X800 series than the older 9700/9800 series cards (in a good way)?

It would be great to see this review: :D

1. ATI X800 Pro
2. VisionTek X800 Pro
3. Gigabyte X800 Pro
4. Asus X800 Pro
5. MSI X800 Pro
 
[M]aynard [M]cGuffin said:
Good review, seeing 'apples to apples' come back was a nice addition...kinda tied the review up at the end.
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We will be expanding A2A to contain NoAA/NoAF benchmarks next time as well.
 
Kckazdude said:
Overall very nice review. I do want to comment on all the "apples to apples' comparisons here tho. It would seem that no one has taken issue with the fast that the cards reveiwed are not even apples to apples. We are looking at results from X800 Pro and GeForce 6800 Ultra. Not trying to sound like a fanATIc but I think the X800 did very well. I am still sitting on the fence waiting for the retail cards and the dust to settle before I make a nVidia/ATi decision.
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Are the cards direct in comparison in price? No they are not. I don't that is the primary factor for comparing cards. I see us in future grouping $300 and up cards into comparisons. At least this way you see what you are truly getting for your money should a $400 or $500 card be your next purchase.
 
NoGodForMe said:
On the warranty, what companies need to do is include an extra fan in the box so the user can change it 3 years down the road.
The card rarely fails on its own, what happens is the fan goes bad, and if you don't catch it, the card fries.
The problem is, most fans on video cards are unique. For example, the fans on my Leadtek Ti4400 are making noise. I had to order direct from Leadtek for $10, but they sent me the entire heat sink that has the two fans on it.
Most of the time, you end up getting a bunch of extra cables in the box you never use.
I'd rather have the extra fan included in the box instead of all the cables. If you need some special cable, let the user order it for free. Same for the fan. If I need a new one 3 years down the road, it should be free.
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I agree in theory about what you are saying. But I think you should remember that fans FAIL all the time. Usually due to being filty and not cleaned. If you are worried about it, add an extra onto your next order of parts. Quite frankly, a user installed fan is likely to move more air anyway and deliver better cooling.
 
If anyone has bought one of these Visiontek or MSI X800's yet, where did you get it?
 
Kyle, did you also stick your watercooling unit on the VisionTek and test it's ability to overclock? I'd be very interested to learn how much farther it would go (if any).

phas3d
 
MrHappyGoLucky said:
Great review Kyle and Brent !

I can't wait to see you guys review the MSI X800 Pro. I just picked one up this weekend and mine overclocks to 585 / 1175 rock solid. Is it me or are the graphics "brighter" on the X800 series than the older 9700/9800 series cards (in a good way)?
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Wow! that is a nice oc, is that stock?
 
phas3d said:
Kyle, did you also stick your watercooling unit on the VisionTek and test it's ability to overclock? I'd be very interested to learn how much farther it would go (if any).

phas3d
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no, it was all stock
 
How many ppl here ACTUALLY play any games on 1600x1280??? no one...so, why are we doing reviews on settings that no one would even need to use? If you game, you know one thing, you NEED to see the ppl your shooting at :) ...it really helps anyway. (unless your a starwars finatic and you play it blindfolded as a testament to your faith of the force :p , jj) But seriously, I realize that you are trying to see the ABSOLUTE limits of these graphics cards to pit them against eachother, but...idk a SINGLE person on ANY game that plays past 1280x1024, so why test past there? :confused: .
 
Does anyone know if HL2 and/or Doom3 will support 2560x1024 resolution (two 1801fps)?

phas3d
 
gumplunger said:
If anyone has bought one of these Visiontek or MSI X800's yet, where did you get it?
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I got the MSI X800 from PC Club in Santa Ana, CA. It was sitting there on the shelf calling my name. And to think the only reason I went there was for the Gigabye NF3 250 motherboard... ;)
 
Brent_Justice said:
Wow! that is a nice oc, is that stock?
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Yes,,, stock cooler for now. This chip run a good 12C cooler than my 9800Pro XT did (58c for the X800 right now). I need to play with the ATI tool to see what she really can do.
 
ELMO said:
If you game, you know one thing, you NEED to see the ppl your shooting at :) ...it really helps anyway.
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If you are a gamer you should know that the scene geometry is the same whatever res you are playing with.
 
Just want to say another solid review, Brent. Look foward to seeing the next one. I really thought this was one of your best reviews. And if it makes you feel any better, I hate apples to apples reviews, your reviews provide the key infomation I need, simply what are the best settings in games I can achieve with X video card. Apples to apples reviews, to me, tell me nothing about what I can expect from X video card. Once again, great review...
 
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