VisionTek 4850 hard crashes, need help

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LockeOak

Weaksauce
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
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I'm hoping someone out there can help me diagnose a problem with my new VisionTek 4850. It runs fine in Windows XP and folds at a nice clip (>90% usage), but I experience random hard crashes in games (BioShock, TF2, hell even the Spore Creature Creator). The games run normally for a few minutes, then crash in-game, usually within 5 minutes. Crash exhibits as a loss of signal to the monitor and a sound stutter loop, I have to reboot.

Specs:
Opty 165 @2.4GHz
2GB RAM
X-Fi XtremeMusic
Radeon 4850HD w/ Catalyst 8.5 + 4800 series hotfix
OCZ 450W power supply
WinXP

I have to think either it's a driver, heat or maybe a power supply issue. I ran the CCC AutoTuner to overclock the card, running at 690/1113 vs. 625/993 stock. It crashes the same at stock. The overclock didn't seem to increase the load temp, maybe a degree or two. Games would crash to desktop immediately with 8.6 drivers, so I uninstalled and reinstalled with 8.5. Any reason why a 450W power supply of reasonable quality wouldn't be able to run this system? Since the card's running at near full capacity while folding I think it's a driver issue. To add to the mystery, it's able to pass 3DMark06 without crashing. Suggestions?
 
So it does crash with the 8.5 drivers installed, too? I'm not totally clear on that. If you can fold and do other tasks that stress the card, and that doesn't cause the crash, I wouldn't suspect a power issue first, but you never know. What's the output on the 12v rail? That matters more than plain ol' watts any more.

Sounds more like a driver or other issue. Did you clean out your old drivers well since the change of cards? Did you uninstall and reinstall any other tools you might use, like ATItool or anything else? If changing from 8.6 to 8.5 made a good difference right away, I'd suspect drivers, or a faulty card somehow, or both. Odd.
 
Yes, it crashes with 8.5 drivers installed. With 8.6 games would crash to desktop during loading, giving various errors depending on the game. With 8.5 + hotfix games run (very well) but hard crash a few minutes later. There definitely was a difference but neither is useable. Based on an old review I found (OCZ Modstream 450W) 12V output is 26A, don't have the hardware to test it myself. I'm inclined to think it's a driver issue since folding almost maxes out the card without any trouble. This was an upgrade from a 7800GT, which I completely uninstalled. I've never had an ATI card in this machine before, so no worries about zombie ATI apps.
 
Well, it appears to be a heat issue. I took the side of the case (P180) off and turned up the case fans. CPU temps dropped 10C, PWM dropped 15 and chipset dropped 3-4. 4850 temps dropped 2-3 degrees. TF2 ran on max settings for almost an hour without crashing. I'm not sure which component is overheating, but if I had to guess I'd say my RAM. The PWM IC sensor was reading in the mid-60s. Maybe just turning up the case fans is enough, I have two over the RAM, one out the top and one out the back.
 
Glad you figured it out. I had thought to mention heat, as the cards seem to be running hot due to the fan locked at a low speed...plus the hot air gets kept in the case with the single slot cooling on these. I had ruled that out as I thought surely the stress testing generated a lot of heat, too. Perhaps stressing everything together, as intense gaming will do, generated enough heat to cause the lockup.

I find every summer I have to get more fans going, or back off some OCing. It sucks, but heat kills. Maybe you could try backing off on the OC a bit, too, to get better stability in the summer heat. That is, if it's hot where you are, or even summer...
 
Looks like the cooler is the weakest part of the 4850, its pretty obviously a cost cutting measure. That's fine but hopefully than can put a better cooler on it when they get other fabrication costs down.
 
Not so sure anymore... at least, if it's heat I'm not sure that it's anything I can fix. I have the side of the case off and a desk fan blowing into the case in an air conditioned room, all fans (case and component) maxed, and the load temp is still 80C, idle temp 77C. Still getting crashes with 8.5 and 8.6. Not impressed with the heat generation or cooling on this thing, GPU-Z reports that the fan is only at 30% and the card goes over 80C. RivaTuner and ATiTool don't work.
 
LockeOak said:
GPU-Z reports that the fan is only at 30% and the card goes over 80C.
Click to expand...

This is supposed to be fixed in an upcoming driver. That is, the fan speed will change correctly, depending upon temp. You could always try ATItool or just get an Accelero S1 if you can't wait. It's beastly large but so are the temp reductions people get.
 
Yeah, I tried ATItool, it caused a total system lock. Aftermarket coolers would help but it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a low- to mid-range card. I'm no longer sure it's a heat issue, since it hums along at 80-82 folding at the desktop no problem. I'm inclined now to think it's either a driver problem or my PSU can't handle it... though, again, folding isn't a problem. A mystery.
 
Yeah, now that I think about it, I'm not at all sure ATItool is compatible with the 48xx series. Sorry about that. I wasn't thinking.

26A on the 12v rail really isn't a lot any more, especially if you're into overclocking and gaming. True, the 4850 is has a pretty low power draw for a high performing card, but it still is a bit hungry. Since the PSU is something you may want to replace before your next major upgrade anyway, it might not hurt to try it now and see if that makes a difference. Also, maybe search some and see if there's a substantial increase in power draw from your old card to this one. That would help answer the question, too. Still, the folding and benches being OK...quite the mystery.
 
NLW said:
This is supposed to be fixed in an upcoming driver. That is, the fan speed will change correctly, depending upon temp. You could always try ATItool or just get an Accelero S1 if you can't wait. It's beastly large but so are the temp reductions people get.
Click to expand...

Second the Accelero S1. I just did that to mine with a Scythe fan and its noticably cooler. Pics to come, but a heads up, I have no idea what my temps are, as no temp monitoring program I've found online seems to take a temp of the GPU at all for me, even though they're designed for that.
 
Well, some progress. I did a sweep with several registry cleaners and DriverCleaner found a few old Nvidia drivers that the uninstall and other programs missed. Got rid of those as well as all ATI drivers, another complete uninstall of the 4850. This time I skipped the 8.5 drivers, installed the Catalyst 8.6 drivers first, then the hotfix. With those measures, plus having the side of the case open, I was able to run TF2 and BioShock for about an hour each with no crashes. That's not to say that they won't crash again, but it's the first time I've broken 15 minutes in either program.

Apparently it was the drivers, I don't know whether or not there was a conflict between the remnant Nvidia and ATI drivers or the if the install order mattered with the 8.5/8.6/hotfix. The PSU has 26A on the 12V rail. Load temp is still around 82, idle 78. I'm not happy with the amount of heat it generates and I think the cooling shroud is just serving as a really big inefficient heat sink with the fan set so low, but it seems the card is built to handle it. It does raise the temp of other case components more than I like, but I can turn the case fans up a bit. Thanks for the help guys, I'll report if the crashing returns.
 
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