Virginia’s $40 Toll Road Better Be the Future of Driving

Megalith

Megalith

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Solo drivers in Virginia gained a new option this week to pay a toll to drive on the I-66 inside the Beltway, which can hit $35-40 during morning rush hours. It offers a window into the way people respond to prices and what they would prefer: being forbidden from doing something at all, or being allowed to do it at high cost. Some are already calling this “congestion pricing” a welcome development.

The nice thing about congestion charges isn't just that they can encourage people to take public transit, or at least to carpool, but that they make drivers pay for their role in creating traffic and spewing greenhouse gases. Forty bucks is a lot for a toll, but it just might be the fair price for the right to drive by yourself down a majorly busy highway.
 
Yeah, public transport takes over 2 hours to get me to work, no thanks. And carpooling? I'd do it, if there was anyone coming from the same area. So what, they'll punish me for living too far from work? Isn't the gas bill I pay punishment enough already?
 
If the road was built by the government and funded by taxes the price should be a set price per axle, not passenger.

If the road was built by a private company I guess they can do whatever they want. Personally I wouldn’t ever give them my money no matter what though.

I’ll pay for the tolls through Chicago, going through Ohio or into Tulsa but I’ll never pay $40 to drive on a road. Charging that much for a toll discourages trucks to deliver to your city and people to visit or work in the city.

There’s a reason why we don’t have any “toll roads” where I live, taxes. The only tolls we pay is on a few bridges and the Detroit-Windsor tunnel.
 
Wow, we pay taxes instead and can use any road, any bridge and tunnel for free here in germany. I never liked to pay the bridges in FL etc.. Those decisions are short sighted and contra-productive. The rich can drive and the poor...well, YOU WALK !

Amazon will love it and those poor, cut-off, shop owners should think twice whom to support on next election.
 
Single passenger drivers could use the road at all at rush hour when it was HOV only, so this move allows MORE people to potentially use the road, not less.

People need to read the article.

I'm not sure how allowing more taxpayers the new option of using a resource if the choose to is a bad thing.

The only thing that sucks about the changes is they changed HOV from HOV 2 to HOV 3. That sucks. I used to carpool on other parts of I-66 all the time in a Miata - a very fuel efficient car with only two seats. People with Smartcars are also going to be screwed by this change too. Yet motorcycle riders still get a pass.

Overall I still think it's a win. At least the proposed HOV Toll lanes outside the beltway will add a second HOV name - something that should really help with traffic (for a little while, anyway).
 
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wow... just wow... pay for the right to drive what kinda sickness is this ? minor tolls are fine but this is extortion. and its even worse that it is being propagated in a positive light. i dont know where the people who think this kinda of monetization of every thing gets their money but not every one is making 10s of thousands per months to give 50 bucks here and there willy nilly for the privilege.

but hey what do i know some of these idiots think the people in flint Michigan need to pay 1000s a month for the privilege to drink clean water. must be nice to be able to pay for you own personal fire fighters, roadways, and wholesome foods and superior medical care . while the rest of us can just go die and then their perfect lil utopia will be complete.
 
chaos4u said:
wow... just wow... pay for the right to drive what kinda sickness is this ?
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Did you read the article? Single drivers never had the option to drive on the road during rush hour anyway.

It was HOV only during rush hours. Period.

Now, if you really want or need to, you can OPTIONALLY pay as a single driver to use the road.

Please explain to me having a new option I never had before is a bad thing?

Also the tolls are high because the road, even when it was HOV only was already really crowded. When supply is restricted and demand is high, the price is also going to be high. Economics 101.

If anything the anticipated toll costs were WAY undersold. It never seemed practical to me. Unless the tolls were stupid high the road would have been to crowded to be useful. If the tolls were really going to be as low as they were "projecting" it would have been a disaster. If I had to deal with driving to DC on a routine basis where parking can easily exceed $25-30 per day already, what's another $5-$10 for shaving off an hour or more?
 
tetris42 said:
Just a sign of the two-tiered society coming folks.
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Seriously? Are you completely ignorant of human history? You want to talk about two tiered societies just go back a few hundred years and look around. Having the OPTION to pay a toll for convenience that never existed before is hardly a sign of impending tyranny.

I swear western civilization is fast becoming a victim of it's own success; one of the explanations for the Fermi Paradox being that advanced civilizations end up offing themselves seems more and more plausible every day.
 
As motorcyclist... meh. The guys who pay the 40 will get in my way just as much as the soccer moms driving home with their crotchfruit.

My take away is, as always, we need more people on motorcycles.
 
DocNo said:
Did you read the article? Single drivers never had the option to drive on the road during rush hour anyway.

It was HOV only during rush hours. Period.

Now, if you really want or need to, you can OPTIONALLY pay as a single driver to use the road.

Please explain to me having a new option I never had before is a bad thing?

Also the tolls are high because the road, even when it was HOV only was already really crowded. When supply is restricted and demand is high, the price is also going to be high. Economics 101.

If anything the anticipated toll costs were WAY undersold. It never seemed practical to me. Unless the tolls were stupid high the road would have been to crowded to be useful. If the tolls were really going to be as low as they were "projecting" it would have been a disaster. If I had to deal with driving to DC on a routine basis where parking can easily exceed $25-30 per day already, what's another $5-$10 for shaving off an hour or more?
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what really rubs me about this is that the infrastructure in this country has been lagging behind for decades and the taxes and the tolls still have not been enough to provide adequate transportation too,out. and throughout our cities. seeing ideology like that in the article just strikes me as the wrong answer and sets bad precedence for more things to come. at face value it seems fair, in the end however it just further divides us all and makes the costs of basic goods and services ever more expensive.
 
DocNo said:
Seriously? Are you completely ignorant of human history? You want to talk about two tiered societies just go back a few hundred years and look around.
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Yes, there are many famous examples of two-tiered societies in the past. Hence why A Tale of Two Cities is so famous. You think because it's happened in the past it can no longer happen again or something? We're magically inoculated now?

DocNo said:
Having the OPTION to pay a toll for convenience that never existed before is hardly a sign of impending tyranny.
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It's only an option if someone can afford it. Half of Americans can't handle a $400 emergency expense, I imagine it's not really an option for them. The point is expect to see more options for people with money for things that were normally equal for everyone. It's little things like this that seep in over time. This stuff usually doesn't happen overnight. And no, of course this by itself is not a sign of impending tyranny. It's this combined with hundreds of other small things we're doing as a society that add up to a two-tiered future.
 
Public transportation takes triple the time with the worst conditions. As an asshole I will just avoid that toll all together and congest a road someplace else.

google-maps-screenshot-5-2.jpg
 
Here's another "read the article" comment. That $40 was only during a single 6-minute period. Of course the article doesn't mention the median price, but a more legitimate complaint I've heard repeated is that before the recent election they were talking about a cap in the $8 range.
 
They do that crap around here too, you can pay a "convenience fee" if you want to drive in carpool lanes in some areas. Which I'm sorry to say kind of defeats the purpose of a carpool lane, first the obvious of "those who are willing to pay for it gets to use it" mentality for PUBLICLY FUNDED roadways, but second if you allow single rider cars to pay for it, then it would also cause more congestion for carpools as well which fucks up their world as well.

I'm just waiting for automated driving on a highways as the ONLY way to drive, then congestion for the most part goes away there, and people who are stubborn with the "when you can pry it from my cold dead hand" mentality can take city streets to work, chances are the average speed is the same.
 
Give the fuck up on the office setting and work from home it's insane that people still have to show up To a building to do their jobs.
 
We've had similar up here in Seattle on I-405, for over 2 years now. Commonly called the Lexus Lanes. I think ours cap at $11 per trip right now. I haven't paid to use them yet, and I really wont. They took a lane away from non-HOV traffic at the same time as well. I know these lanes haven't quite met the congestion reducing goals they promised... in fact, they missed by quite a bit.
 
I'd pay double if it kept even less people off. Well, I'd expense it to the company. ;)
 
Just more divide between the haves and have-nots.

Someone makes $500,000 a year isn't going to be bothered by an expensive toll.
The middle class who can't afford these high tolls will just have to sit in the slow lanes and watch the rich zip by.
 
DocNo said:
Seriously? Are you completely ignorant of human history? You want to talk about two tiered societies just go back a few hundred years and look around. Having the OPTION to pay a toll for convenience that never existed before is hardly a sign of impending tyranny.

I swear western civilization is fast becoming a victim of it's own success; one of the explanations for the Fermi Paradox being that advanced civilizations end up offing themselves seems more and more plausible every day.
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If the road was built using tax payer money, there should be no option to pay to use a road unless it is voted upon.
 
What?
You guys still drive everywhere?

I dislike tolls as much as the next guy, but it's our lifestyle choices that are to blame.

Road networks being designed for 60's traffic = Roads not having enough capacity for current traffic volume
Business and manufacturing being focused into high density districts = Higher population density than the roads are capable of
High dwelling costs near said districts = Everyone moves further out to cheaper suburbia
Public transport networks not expanding beyond high dwelling areas = No alternative choice for suburbia and adding more cars to the road
Work starting and ending at similar times = Suburbia rush crushes 60's capacity road networks
 
MrDeaf said:
What?
You guys still drive everywhere?

I dislike tolls as much as the next guy, but it's our lifestyle choices that are to blame.

Road networks being designed for 60's traffic = Roads not having enough capacity for current traffic volume
Business and manufacturing being focused into high density districts = Higher population density than the roads are capable of
High dwelling costs near said districts = Everyone moves further out to cheaper suburbia
Public transport networks not expanding beyond high dwelling areas = No alternative choice for suburbia and adding more cars to the road
Work starting and ending at similar times = Suburbia rush crushes 60's capacity road networks
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Pretty much this

My shifts are off set 11am-8pm and have zero traffic. I like it
 
make drivers pay for their role in creating traffic and spewing greenhouse gases
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I was wondering where this rhetoric came from and then realized it came from the Wired.com column lmao.
Yes, by all means transform a traffic engineering topic into a virtue signaling issue.

Furthermore, if you actually dig into the column itself, the author Aarian Marshall even acknowledges that he isn't even quoting the average toll. The actual average tolls are closer to $10.70 and $3.80.

Not the first time Wired.com has tried to misrepresent the facts, and certainly not the last.
 
For a $40 one way trip I better be guaranteed a speedy trip to my destination, with your choice of complimentary coffee or a handjob thrown in.
 
The only purpose of these express lanes/tolls is to allow the very rich to be able to get to what they want to.

It actually makes traffic even worse for everyone else in VA.

It is not a solution for VA. VA is in same trouble as everyone else with no leadership to fix the road/water,... problems.

Just that money talks and this keeps the folks with money happy. This is not a solution, just a bandaid to keep very rich happy.
 
If you guys don't like this, then you should support higher gasoline taxes. Gasoline taxes affect people who drive gas guzzling cars/SUVs/trucks more than people who drive small, economic cars. Gasoline taxes also encourage carpooling and the use of public transit, both of which reduce congestion. Historically, though, Americans have been very against gasoline taxes, and raising gasoline taxes is political suicide. I'm not surprised that alternatives like these come up.
 
Mav451 said:
I was wondering where this rhetoric came from and then realized it came from the Wired.com column lmao.
Yes, by all means transform a traffic engineering topic into a virtue signaling issue.

Furthermore, if you actually dig into the column itself, the author Aarian Marshall even acknowledges that he isn't even quoting the average toll. The actual average tolls are closer to $10.70 and $3.80.

Not the first time Wired.com has tried to misrepresent the facts, and certainly not the last.
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Jesus, what kind of ADD do you have to consider reading the first paragraph digging down. And considering it's free if you have 2 people in the car, it's fairly easy to avoid the toll altogether. This type of pricing is common, but 40 is not, but i suspect it's more congested than most highways.
 
Master_shake_ said:
Give the fuck up on the office setting and work from home it's insane that people still have to show up To a building to do their jobs.
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i wish more places did this. I currently work from home but i would love to find a new job with a higher position and morenpay but doing so it pretty impossible.

commuting is the killer of souls. I used to live and work in that area, my first apartment took me one plus hours to get to work, like 25 mikes away. Moved to a condo and took the dulles toll road, 17 miles to work, still took 40 min.

so life draining.
 
atmartens said:
If you guys don't like this, then you should support higher gasoline taxes. Gasoline taxes affect people who drive gas guzzling cars/SUVs/trucks more than people who drive small, economic cars. Gasoline taxes also encourage carpooling and the use of public transit, both of which reduce congestion. Historically, though, Americans have been very against gasoline taxes, and raising gasoline taxes is political suicide. I'm not surprised that alternatives like these come up.
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You say that... but again, we have these on I-405 here in WA state, and we also have a total of $0.678 (second highest in the US!) in taxes per gallon of gas. So, the local government here is getting it both ways... tolls on a tax-funded freeway, and very high gas tax.
 
Sounds to me like this is simply a tax on being stupid enough to work on the beltway.
 
first they will slowly increase the price of the average tolls,
then use that to increase prices on public transport as well

transportation options had always been a compromise between the needs of the public, and the private corporate investors. (even though it has been heavily swayed in favor of the investors ever since the gov ran out of money)
 
Gigus Fire said:
Just don't use it. Make it into a massive failure for Virginia. It's that simple.
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It's a win-win for the rich then, they can keep the peasants off their special road. You act like they will just close the road if there isn't enough revenue...err, maybe.
 
RayderR6 said:
It's a win-win for the rich then, they can keep the peasants off their special road. You act like they will just close the road if there isn't enough revenue...err, maybe.
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This is a HOV fast lane. There's a non HOV lane right by it. If people refuse to use it, then it won't be an income source for the state.
Eventually they'll have to give up their plans for incoming for that road if it's insoluble.
The I-66 corridor is jam packed. Adding a pay for HOV lane is not a real solution. Everyone is trying to get into DC for work. You would think they would invest more into public transportation, instead they just try and squeeze more money when people are stuck in traffic.
 
FUCK NO.

Take my gas taxes and vehicle licensing fees and build more lanes and roads and stop wasting them on bike and pedestrian paths and lanes just for the rich.
 
Eulogy said:
You say that... but again, we have these on I-405 here in WA state, and we also have a total of $0.678 (second highest in the US!) in taxes per gallon of gas. So, the local government here is getting it both ways... tolls on a tax-funded freeway, and very high gas tax.
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I bet your road infrastructure is still failing and in dire need of repair or replacement, isn't it?

You Americans still have relatively cheap gas prices. Here in Ontario, the cheapest place is Costco, and they still charge C$1.10/L.
C$1.10/L roughly equals to around US$3.24/gal
I checked WA's cheapest gas prices for regular, and it's around US$2.69/gal

And yes, while we are still having issues with replacing outdated infrastructure. Most of it is not falling apart at the seams, yet, however I doubt they will be replaced in a timely manner either.
 
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