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vinyl plotter software

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drunknbass

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
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235
whats the best plotter software out?. i just got a new 40" plotter and want to get some kick ass software for it.
i currently use illustrator cs2 so if theres a good lugin to use that, that would be awesome!.
 
Depends on the brand and model of the cutter - differents apps support different cutters. Most apps do however also give a generic hp/gl driver which can drive unsupported cutters as well but that will not always work. Do a search for sign software - at my shop we have a 60" cutter but we also have a printer so we use a couple of solutions since we can print then contour cut printed graphics. For strictly print we run Onyx Production House, when we need printing and/or cutting we use FlexiSign Pro. FlexiSign is sweet and there is a basic version for running just a cutter (no print capabilites) but it is expensive. Our full pro version cost me right at 4 grand. There are a couple of cheapo cutter apps out there though that are under five hundred bucks that should do a decent job of running basic cutting jobs though. For the best results and least waste though the app should have native support for the cutter and be able to control the cutters options such as blade pressure, blade offset, and speed, and also be able to open and work with many file formats. Our cutter came with a cutter specific plug-in for cutting directly from Illustrator but it leaves a lot to be desired as you have to manually create cut lines and it has a hard time with multiple colors, strokes, gradients, etc. FlexiSign is a standalone app specifically for driving the cutter, has a ton of design capabilities built in, etc. With Flexi you just open your illustrator (or corel, etc) file, select the object, tell it to create a cut line and cut it.

If you are only cutting single color stuff it will be quite easy after just a short time, multiple color stuff is where it can get quite complicated and is a point where you might consider the venture into a print/cut solution. We cut single color stuff a good bit but nowadays if more than one color is involved we simply print on white vinyl and then cut it all at once. This lets you have a multiple color job with no overlaps, no assembling the peices, etc but does present a whole new learning challenge and a significant investment in new software and a printer. A couple of cheap options out there I have seen though for just driving a cutter are SignTools 3 and WinPCSign - those are probably the lowest cost apps out. I've seen both on eBay before for a couple of hundred bucks. I just checked though and you can also pick up FlexiSign Starter 7 on eBay for a few hundred as well which I would highly reccomend as Flexi is an industry standard for sign making. Good luck.
 
I just have to say I loathe anything from Flexi. Techsupport costs an arm, leg, and left testicle as does the software.....oh and nothing like Alladin/HASP keys. :rolleyes:
 
Yes but so does any of the higher end sign software - the most popular and advanced for printing - Onyx Production house is about 4 grand and also uses and hardware dongle, Signlab 7 uses a dongle, Rasterlink Pro uses a dongle, etc., etc. And all cost thousands of dollars. But with proper training, and creating custom profile with a good spectrophotometer and almost zero support is really needed with any of them except when you are first learning how to use the app. Flexi compared to the other higher end RIP's though has the best and easiest cutting support also integrated into the same app. Also Flexi provides email support for free but when production is stopped that not helpful but they are pretty responsive. I've found Onyx to be about the same in the support arena. Onyx does have better color control but is more complicated to use.

That procut app is 1300.00 - dont know much about it though. It may be good. I think there is also one called CoCut but I have not researched strictly cutting software in a year or two.
 
MixManSC said:
But with proper training, and creating custom profile with a good spectrophotometer and almost zero support is really needed with any of them except when you are first learning how to use the app.
Click to expand...

Or when you are doing a new systems rollout and are having HASP keys not working on new images. And you can't exactly wait for their spotty at best email.

After dealing with companies like FLexi I chuckle when peopel complain about plopping down 150 for windows.
 
I do know that feeling for sure but thats what us computer geeks are for... figure it out on your own and get it working quicker. Yes the alladin drivers can sometimes be a pain in the ass. Usually though they are no problem with the newer USB keys. I do find it amusing at times also when people complain about software prices.
 
i wasnt aware that the programs had support for multi colored jobs. i thought i had to seperate the file in pieces and do it seperatly for each color and overlap the vinyl after its cut and tweezed.
the plotter driver i use is roland pnc1000. ill check out flexishign pro.. my plotter is strctly cutting.
i wanted to get a plotter that cut and printed but i was on a budget. i knew i shoulda got that roland unit on ebay that print/cut when i saw it, but i didnt now i cant find any for a decent price.

and what printers can print on sticker vinyl?
and if i got a printer that printed on vinyl and they both used the same drivers (plotter, and printer) would the ink go down in the same place as the plotter is cutting? so i could have the cuts done and then feed the sheet into the printer and lay the ink down?
 
It works the other way around on the combo printer/cutters - they print first and also print a set of registration marks, then it backs te material back through the machine and uses an electric eye of sorts to detect the registration marks then proceeds to cut the stickers out. I personally do not like the combo machines as when it's cutting your printer is then tied up. As far as a printer goes I would not reccomend any printer that uses water based or so called "eco or light" solvent inks as the prints are just not as durable. A full agressive solvent printer will have to best durability and fade resistance but full solvent printers do require being ventilated outdoors due to the fumes. It's really not that bad though if you run a decent exhaust for it. I have a Mimaki JV3-160SP which is a 62" solvent printer and a Mimaki CG-160FX 60" cutter which makes for an excellent combo as our main printer and cutter. A combo such as this gives you two machines that can run at the same time and also the printer will print registration marks that the cutter will detect which automated the cutting of the prints after they come off the printer.

The other disadvantage to a all in one machine is if you need to laminate the print, then you have to print, pull the material off the machine, laminate, then put it back on the same machine to cut. Might as well have a separate cutter so you can keep printing production going. Then of course you will also need to look at a laminating solution. We have 2 laminators, on is a liquid laminator and the other is a roll film laminator. Then we also have a McDermaid Colorspan 72UVR flatbed UV printer for printing directly on foam board, glass, wood, etc, signage which is a a whole different animal. In the long run it really depends on your commitment to make a sucessful business and how big you want to biz to get. If you are planning on getting into vehicle wraps and other signage then you will be looking at some large investments. So far in machines, computers, and software I have spent roughly 175K over the past couple of years.

I would start like you are to see if this is really want you want to do. It's a lot of work and takes a lot of experience and tweaking to get excellent results once you move to the print side. Cutting vinyl is easy and there are still a few shops around here in which thats all they do but once you have more than one or two colors it get considerably more efficeint to print the job rather than layering each color of vinyl individually. Also print allows you nearly unlimited color choices and opens up a whole new market. I started my company with just cut vinyl as well but now just two years later cuy vinyl is maybe 5% of our business. We do a TON of vehicle wraps, large banners, murals, and other large format printing. Right now we are doing wraps on three jeep liberties for the Powerball Lottery and SC Education Lottery and have projected for this year (our third year) to do close to 1 mil in sales. Is a booming market but to go all out like I am takes a TON of time, dedication, learning, and financial resources. I inherited a bit when my mom passed which I used to start my company. Leaving a 12 year corporate IT career tto start my own business was the best decision of my life. Now I work twice as much for half the money. :confused: But it's worth it and in the long run I am building an investment I can grow and hopefully retire on. I now have 5 employees, am looking at a larger building to lease (right now we have 8000sf and really could use 15000), and am looking at a billboard printer once we move. The 16ft printer will be my largest investment yet, the thing is phenomonally massive, about 25ft long and costs 400K for the used one I'm looking at!!

Try sites like http://www.digitaloutput.net/content/ContentCT.asp?P=689 or others for learn a lot more. If you really want to see alot of these machines in action try to get to the ISA show in Florida next month.
 
well im not really looking to make a career out of stickers. ive ben full time web / graphic designer and my company pays so much to have stickers made i told them to just buy me a machine and id make them for free to cover the cost of the machine.
and theres alot more stuff i can do if i can print and cut. on average what do decent printers run for, and what kinda prices does ink usally run?. like for example its not cost effective to print full page color prints out of a home printer cause ink is so $$. just curious how long ink lasts in those printers and how much ink can they lay down before a refill (on average)
 
Well for shorter term outdoor and indoor printing use you could pick up a 36" or so solvent printer for probably under 10K. Our Mimaki use 8 440ml cartridges which cost about $120 each - they do print a good amount of material but - these sort of printers need to be run a lot or there is the risk of one of the printhead getting clogged or drying out. Printheads for these cost for six to eight hundred bucks each. The printers do have an automatic self cleaning and maintentence mode you can turn on so it will flush a small amount of ink through the heads twice a day but then you are burning a lot of expensive ink.

With what you are describing I would look at the Gerber Edge. It uses ink ribbons which are much lower maintenance and has the added bonus of being able to use foil ribbons so you can actually print chrome, gold, etc. The output from them is fantastic and are perfect for labels, stickers, and even some vehicle graphics. I've seen edge packages on eBay for under 8K with a matching cutter (which will also cut vinyl) and software to drive the whole package. Sort of like this one http://cgi.ebay.com/Complete-Gerber...ryZ46740QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
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how are the hp designjet inkjet plotters?
is the quality just total junk?
in the product pics it looks like they do decent work but im sure those are all photoshopped.
they sell used on ebay pretty cheap. i wish i could afford a 10k solvent printer but i cant right now.. maybe one day, but not yet.
 
Those are water based inkjet printers and have good print quility similar to what you would get for a home inkjet printer. The catch is yu have to use expensive and overpriced coated vinyl to print decal material - in fact just about anything you print with one of those will need to have an inkjet receptive coating for the water based inks. Additionally water based ink is no ggood for outdoor or long term use as water based ink sits on the surface of the material, eco or lite solvent slightly binds to the material and agressive full solvent actually just about becomes part of the material. In other words water based inkjet prints will scratch very easily and have almost zero UV fade resistance. It will produce ssome nice looking prints but they are really only good for indoor use as the printer and ink are the same technology as your typical home inkjet printer and ultimatley the inks are much more expensive plus the materials to print on are more expensive. Less money up front I guess but more expensive in the long run due to ink and material costs. We are considering on though but we are looking at the Epson 9600 which has better color, better inks, and is suitable for also printing high end giclee art reproductions. Those can be bought used for a few thousand and they have a smaller version for even less.
 
oh ok.. makes sense.. i also saw some high priced hp and epson printers that have the option of using inkjet or outdoor uv inks. id assume these are a better solution if one wasnt to go with a full outdoor printer?
 
MixManSC said:
As far as a printer goes I would not reccomend any printer that uses water based or so called "eco or light" solvent inks as the prints are just not as durable.
Click to expand...

I work for a sign supplier, and we sell Roland printers. The new ECO-SOL MAX inks are awesome. We can print on anything, and it's durable as heck. I agree with you on the water-based part. You have to laminate EVERYTHING you print with water-based inks to get any type of durability.

As far as anyone thinkin of buying a cheap printer/cutter on ebay, just make sure it's not a Roland ColorCAMM. Being a Roland distributor, I feel a little guilty about bashing some of their machines, but we've found that 100% honesty helps us sell more units, and makes for happier customers :D The ColorCAMM's used ribbons similar to the Gerber Edge, but in a much smaller width (about 1/2"inch compared to 11" on the edge). The cost was around $2.00 per square foot, per color. So a 12"x12" 4-color print would cost you 8 bucks in ink alone!!!! there's no way you could compete with anyone with a solvent printer (20-40 cents per square foot). They also have a lot of service issues.

Roland makes awesome water-based printers for fine-art, and the VersaCAMM & Pro-II solvent printers are the bomb....but stay away from the ColorCAMMs (PNC-5000, PC-50, PC-60, PC-600, PC-12)

P.S. We're also sell Flexi & Signlab....so if you want a good deal, drop me a PM. I'll give you the [H]ard Sign Supplier discount ;)
 
thx.. the roland unit i almost bought was a colorcamm.. i guess ill save up for something nicer
 
drunknbass said:
thx.. the roland unit i almost bought was a colorcamm.. i guess ill save up for something nicer
Click to expand...

that's what I tell my customers. You can get colorcamm's cheap, but @ $8 sq/ft, you won't have any margins. The VersaCamm's are more expensive, but the cost per sq/ft is 1/16th at most of what the colorcamm's are.
 
does anyone have any x64 plotter drivers?
i was using signcut to play around cause it came with my plotter and i am supposed to use a graphtec ce-1000 plotter driver. but i run x64 so it wont install.. i wonder if flexisign will work? i heard it has its own drivers?
 
I could only suggest driving a plotter or large format printer from a non x64 operating system. While I have not researched it I have never seen drivers or native support for any of these devices nor the software to drive them for an x64 OS and these drivers and apps are picky about what they like for the most part. Problem is the higher end apps always provide the drivers for the device and the device manufactures always provide windows drivers if at all.
 
yup i couldnt find anything.. only hp drivers for plotters but they are not cutting plotters.. ill have to set up a dual boot to xp. sucks.. wasnt there a program that would let you run another operation system inside of a window of another o/s ? i forget what it was called, but this might be a perfect time to try it.
 
hey i gotta ? on flexisign. i have alot of ai and eps files i do in illustrator but some of the paths intersect and in flexi views as outline itll put a slide through parts i dont want any cuts in. heres an example
flexifill.gif

flexioutline.gif

youll notice in the main heart, and also some of theletters theres a slice that doesnt need to be there, other than making it harder to weed and apply the sticker, it makes the finished product look cheap

and also what is the proper method for doing multi colored stickers. i did 1 that says i <# my honda and the sticker lettering is white and the heart is red. and flexi printed out the white, then it did a seperate cut of just red hearts. am i just supposed to weed the lettering part and apply the heart to each sticker by hand?
 
Yes with mutiple colors of cut vinyl each color will either need to applied separatley or layer them ahead of time on a light table which is more complicated and hard to do. Thats where printing becomes an advantage when working with multiple colors. As far as the cuts go you need to set in Flexi's cut dialog, Auto Weld, and Auto Trap. Or select the entire graphic prior to the cut dialog in the designer view and use the Combine tools under the Effects menu to weld and trap the design to get rid of unneeded intersections.
 
cool. i figured out the weld tool after i posted that, sucks about multicolored stickers. it seems its gonna be really hard to line up stuff. especially bigger stuff.
i wish flexi had that feature to automatically add vertical and horizontal weed lines like signcut does
 
It does - at least in version 7 and up. Thats in the final cut dialog box in the weed lines box. I dont use it though - while it can make weeding a little easier it also wears out you blades a lot faster with all the extra cutting being done. There's also otions for "Auto weld", "Auto trap", and also a function to have it cur registration marks which I guess are supposed to help line up multicolor jobs although I've never tried that. If it's more than one color I either print it or apply the peices on whatever they are going on one color at a time.

cutdiag.jpg
 
i was using signcut and there was an option to add horizontal and vertical weeding lines by clicking a button, does flexi have this ability? some stuff is really hard/time consuming to weed without cutting into smaller pieces. either that or does flexi have the ability to add lines to a file where you want cuts to go? i dont really see too many cutting tools,
 
Did you see the screenshot above your post?? There's a box there called "Weed Lines" - just check the boxes for the options you want - horizontal, vertical, easy weed, etc.. That screen comes up everytime we cut something.
 
yea i click that but i cant see where the weed lines will go, they seem to be kinda random. hey i have a small job to hire you to do. can you aim me at rinseitouttttt asap. thanks.
 
I don't use any sort of "chat" software. Just email me - richard "at" sl-digital.com
 
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