Video game actor strike

[Ryland]

We just feel used because they might make more per hour. Just craziness..If that were the case, why are we not upset with Basketball players? Football players? Because we feel that since it is not just the 3 hour game they are getting paid for, their salary is justified more so than the small amount of time a Voice actor puts in.

Who says we arent? They are getting paid rediculous sums of money for playing a game. If I ever needed an argument about the world not being fair I should use them as an example.

 

[magoo]

Who says we arent? They are getting paid rediculous sums of money for playing a game. If I ever needed an argument about the world not being fair I should use them as an example.

ABSOLUTE TRUTH. i wish i could have gone from highschool to a massive salary just because i can put a ball in a hoop. yeah the kid practiced alot and grew tall. but so did i. but to make money i had to attend college and graduate school. and ill never make one years' salary in my lifetime. well that is just what some factions of society feel fame is worth. it sucks i get over it every day. but i have a real job, i work way over 40 hrs a week and i suck it up. if i went on strike id be broke. i agree any work is hard and takes preparation. but since when is speaking worth so much. SUCK IT UP.

 

[Yippee38]

I like the arguement that these people don't work 40 hours per week. By that logic, if I chose a career as a crossing guard (part-time), I should make way more money per hour than people working a full-time gig. I don't care how many hours you work per week. You should be paid for the time you are working on a project. If that's not enough for you to get by on, well get off your lazy ass and go find more projects to work on.

What I really think should happen is that the publishers should say, "We'll sign your contract if you will agree to a 34.8% pay cut over the next three years. If you don't like it, well then I guess you won't have a contract."

 

[jordan12]

Who says we arent? They are getting paid rediculous sums of money for playing a game. If I ever needed an argument about the world not being fair I should use them as an example.

But everyone always says the world is not fair. Why is this instance of not being fair any worse than someone getting laid off and loosing their house because they couldnt pay their taxes? Its unfair. But it is the same kind of fair. I do not think that there are sub fair groups, where one is worse than something else.

And for us to complain is ridiculous. I was laid off for 6 months. Couldnt find anything. It was horrible. Did I complain? Yep. Did I think it was unfair? Yep. Did I go out and campaign stating that I was treated unfairly? Nope. Accepted it as a fact of life and moved on.

And the same with everything in the world that is unfair. Accept it and move on. Might help keep you healthier, longer. Or would you blame your various illnesses on the world being not fair as well??

 

[Ryland]

But everyone always says the world is not fair. Why is this instance of not being fair any worse than someone getting laid off and loosing their house because they couldnt pay their taxes? Its unfair. But it is the same kind of fair. I do not think that there are sub fair groups, where one is worse than something else.

And for us to complain is ridiculous. I was laid off for 6 months. Couldnt find anything. It was horrible. Did I complain? Yep. Did I think it was unfair? Yep. Did I go out and campaign stating that I was treated unfairly? Nope. Accepted it as a fact of life and moved on.

And the same with everything in the world that is unfair. Accept it and move on. Might help keep you healthier, longer. Or would you blame your various illnesses on the world being not fair as well??

I wasn't attempting to state that the world was fair but to state that it was unfair. Like the adage goes, "Only the good die young". If the world was fair then it would be the evil/cruel who die nasty deaths very early.

I also have very little to complain about, I have a wife and son and a relatively steady job. I haven't been laid off or have major health problems (only being able to hear in one ear doesn't count but it does making gaming a bit more difficult).

 

[jon_k]

So, giving your numbers the benefit of the doubt, a project is going to require 90 hours total - 10 in the studio and 80 preparation. (If it really requires 8 hours prep for 1 hour of work, then something is drastically wrong.) Working on 10 projects per year is going to require a total of 900 hours at most. A normal worker is going to spend 40 hours a week/52 weeks a year minus say a couple weeks vacation, not counting any potential for overtime. That equals 2000 hours annually at least. So I should feel sorry for someone making $25k for 900 hours of work and that they should make as much as someone who actually works more than double that amount? Fuck that and fuck the voice actors. They need to either get a real job, or a supplemental source of income.

There are also other things you aren't taking into account. It takes a lot of time to actually get the job. You don't just walk into ID studios and say "Hey Carmak, hook me up for a VO job with that Doom3 thingy you're doing." I don't know exactly how it works in VO casting, but in film and theatre they hold auditions, so I'm going to assume the VO director holds auditions. First off, you have to drive to the auditions, which could take a loooong time depending on where the auditions are held at. For example, if the auditions are for a BioWare game, you might have to take a trip to Canada. That costs time and money. Not only that, but auditions themselves generally take about 2 hours. Even after all that they may decide to not cast you so in that case you just wasted a bunch of your time and travel money. Then you have to negociate your contract which takes a while. So after all that prep, a voice over actor probably *does* work 40 hours a week.

It's similar for sports players. They aren't just getting paid for the 3 hours they go on TV to play a game. They are getting paid that much for the 12 hours a day they practice basketball to constantly improve their game and stay in top notch shape.

 

[[KFKAS]Death-Speak]

Many of the more recent top games involving voice actors either don't have demos, or didn't have demos until several months AFTER they'd already become best selling titles. Therefore, gameplay couldn't have affected sales since no one purchasing the game knew what the gameplay was actually like. So, it would be YOUR argument that is flawed.

Gameplay is everything. Just because there is no demo means jack. When purchasing a game I look for specific things, genre, good reviews (geared towards gameplay), replayability, etc.... in none of these (except a game review arguably) does "voice acting" impact anything. Therefore my decision to purchase said game has little or nothing to do with "voice acting". In terms voice acting can't make a game suck.

BTW.. are you a gamer?

DS

 

[jordan12]

I wasn't attempting to state that the world was fair but to state that it was unfair. Like the adage goes, "Only the good die young". If the world was fair then it would be the evil/cruel who die nasty deaths very early.

I also have very little to complain about, I have a wife and son and a relatively steady job. I haven't been laid off or have major health problems (only being able to hear in one ear doesn't count but it does making gaming a bit more difficult).

Well, you have proven my point.SInce the world is unfair, why should we sit around complaining? Where does that get us? And in regards to the original debate, does it really matter if they get whatever amount they get per hour? Because if it were one of us, we wouldnt care what anybody else thought. We would be happy and move on.

So we all should just accept our situations. Do what we can to improve them. And be happy that we are alive.

 

[jon_k]

Gameplay is everything. Just because there is no demo means jack. When purchasing a game I look for specific things, genre, good reviews (geared towards gameplay), replayability, etc.... in none of these (except a game review arguably) does "voice acting" impact anything. Therefore my decision to purchase said game has little or nothing to do with "voice acting". In terms voice acting can't make a game suck.

BTW.. are you a gamer?

DS

One thing I *do* look for in reviews however is if the game is fully VO'd. It's not the deciding factor whether I buy a game or not, but it definatly goes into the mix.

 

[jon_k]

I like the arguement that these people don't work 40 hours per week. By that logic, if I chose a career as a crossing guard (part-time), I should make way more money per hour than people working a full-time gig. I don't care how many hours you work per week. You should be paid for the time you are working on a project. If that's not enough for you to get by on, well get off your lazy ass and go find more projects to work on.

What I really think should happen is that the publishers should say, "We'll sign your contract if you will agree to a 34.8% pay cut over the next three years. If you don't like it, well then I guess you won't have a contract."

again.... what about the time they spend preparing for the project? What about the time they spend negociating projects? Every business I know of has well-paid empoylees that do the aforementioned tasks, so that is why shouldn't actors get compensated for that as well?

 

[Ryland]

There are also other things you aren't taking into account. It takes a lot of time to actually get the job. You don't just walk into ID studios and say "Hey Carmak, hook me up for a VO job with that Doom3 thingy you're doing." I don't know exactly how it works in VO casting, but in film and theatre they hold auditions, so I'm going to assume the VO director holds auditions. First off, you have to drive to the auditions, which could take a loooong time depending on where the auditions are held at. For example, if the auditions are for a BioWare game, you might have to take a trip to Canada. That costs time and money. Not only that, but auditions themselves generally take about 2 hours.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the VO director to send out short scripts and have the actors do recordings for the scripts and then send them to the director? That would save everybody time and money.

 

[Ludic]

I'd rather see a programmer get residuals from a game before a voice actor does.

 

[Ryland]

again.... what about the time they spend preparing for the project?

Thats part of "working on the project"...

 

[eggrock]

Call up Ageia and ask for a VPU.

 

[jordan12]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the VO director to send out short scripts and have the actors do recordings for the scripts and then send them to the director? That would save everybody time and money.

I think that having them come in and do this in person makes things more smooth. And gives the director a better idea of how well this person will do..Rather than depending on a recording..

 

[drizzt81]

This is more important than you realize. If the acting had been decidable terrible, how much would it have detracted from the overall game experience. I am not saying it was the best thing since ass, but having decent voice acting can be the difference between "HA HA HA HA!! WTF am I playing?!" and "Mmmm, damn those jeans are tight."

I understand that, but it all depends on how much value good voice acting adds to a game. It seems that the game industry just is not mature enough to make a statement to that respect. Some really crappy game (Deer Hunter) that have virtually no cost in development, no voice acting (apart from some deer I'd GUESS) make tons of money, while other games that are super-expensive in all those areas barely sell...

 

[T0ddyH0oddy]

Sometimes America can be so ridiculous.

Kenyan health care workers are on strike because they want a 600% pay increase. Meanwhile, patients are dying, and the health care workers are being arrested.

Small chips in comparison.

That's why I live in America, bub. Go elsewhere if you like to bitch about it, mmk?

I think what this really comes down to are that actors (of any type) are perhaps the lowest form of employed individual we can come across (close second is anyone related with peta or greenpeace - wait, they're probably not employed).

Their function is to entertain. Entertainment is not central to my existence, and is not central to anyone else's. Fuck 'em.

 

[jordan12]

That's why I live in America, bub. Go elsewhere if you like to bitch about it, mmk?

I think what this really comes down to are that actors (of any type) are perhaps the lowest form of employed individual we can come across (close second is anyone related with peta or greenpeace - wait, they're probably not employed).

Their function is to entertain. Entertainment is not central to my existence, and is not central to anyone else's. Fuck 'em.

Praise the Lord. He speaks the truth!!

 

[Ryland]

I think that having them come in and do this in person makes things more smooth. And gives the director a better idea of how well this person will do..Rather than depending on a recording..

As long as there are adequate recording studios near where the VO lives then there is no reason why they should have to goto the development studio for the interview. The director should only be caring about final quality of the voice acting since that is all that will be heard...

 

[T0ddyH0oddy]

Praise the Lord. He speaks the truth!!

I actually get that alot.

 

[[KFKAS]Death-Speak]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the VO director to send out short scripts and have the actors do recordings for the scripts and then send them to the director? That would save everybody time and money.

Thats how Lucas did the VO audition for General Grievous..... it makes sense.

DS

 

[jon_k]

Thats part of "working on the project"...

but the thing is voice actors don't get paid for the time they spend rehearsing the script on their own. If they would get paid for that time, then yes, I sure they would gladly exchange that for a drop in wages.

 

[jon_k]

Wouldn't it make more sense for the VO director to send out short scripts and have the actors do recordings for the scripts and then send them to the director? That would save everybody time and money.

Well if this is the case, then this isn't exactly cheap for the actor either. You don't send in a recording that you recorded off of you logitech webcam mic. You're going to want it to sound professional and that mean a boom mic, pop filter, static reduction, etc etc. Most actors don't have that equiptment as it is extremely expensive, and it costs several hundred dollars to have a professional sound recorder to come in and record your demo tape that you send in.

 

[T0ddyH0oddy]

but the thing is voice actors don't get paid for the time they spend rehearsing the script on their own. If they would get paid for that time, then yes, I sure they would gladly exchange that for a drop in wages.

Wow.

That's like saying, "I don't get paid at home for the research I do that I know my boss expects me to have".

That's bullshit.

When you have a deadline, you work towards it. You put the company (and I know this is a really difficult concept for actor-types) ahead of your own damn problems and you get it done.

Overtime is great, but I can't stay at the damn office all day. You have to do work on your own and not expect to get paid.

It's that whole not being lazy thing, which I think most actors have a realy hard time understanding.

If they did get it, they wouldn't be actors. They would have real fucking jobs.

 

[jordan12]

I actually get that alot.

I believe you do. You state things in a very good way that isnt trying to be politically correct. Bravo for the fine post, sir.

Lets see Ryland argue this stuff now.

 

[DazzOSC]

I'd rather see a programmer get residuals from a game before a voice actor does.

Being a programmer in the game industry, I can say I completely agree with you and appreciate you saying that .

Dont get me wrong, I love my job, but sometimes in some studios (not the one I am at currently because the management here actrually cares), programmers are worked to the bone in a very unfair manner and they see pretty much absolute crap for it. Infact, I could easily make much much more money coding enterprise type apps, but what fun would that be.

edit: oh and we dont get paid for over time, although putting in extra hours is exceedingly common.

 

[Ryland]

Lets see Ryland argue this stuff now.

Whats there to argue? The VO's should get paid for the time they work on a project, period. If that takes into account prep work then they should get paid for the prep work to. Residuals should be out of the question because they are "just" contract employee's, similar to the times that outside artists will be brought in to finish filling in game worlds.

Edit: I don't know of any game programmers that actually get compensated for their overtime during the "Crunch" period. I know that I don't get paid for overtime and never have.

 

[T0ddyH0oddy]

edit: oh and we dont get paid for over time, although putting in extra hours is exceedingly common.

Thank You.

You do what's expected of you, and you keep the bitching to a minimum because that's what you're expected to do.

That's why you're paid.

OK, I acan see some guys working in a one hundred degree industrial plant bitching about their jobs, because it's, oh, actually work. But not a bunch of mamby-pamby voice actors who are pissed off because their dreams of the silver screen were shattered after they were rejected by Backyard Pornos or some other low-budget adult entertainment firm.

I wonder if these "voice actors" have ever put in a day of actual work their entire lives.

Fellatio in the back of a Buick does not count.

 

[Mindriot]

but the thing is voice actors don't get paid for the time they spend rehearsing the script on their own. If they would get paid for that time, then yes, I sure they would gladly exchange that for a drop in wages.

That is a ridiculous statement. When my boss tells me to get certified for a specific technology that is work related. I don't get paid to go to school at night and study for weeks to pass the Certification. That is just part of bettering yourself for the future and securing your job. Sure they will reimburse me for the test cost, and maybe the schooling. But the time you spend to study and learn is just on you. Not the employer.

 

[Ryland]

That is a ridiculous statement. When my boss tells me to get certified for a specific technology that is work related. I don't get paid to go to school at night and study for weeks to pass the Certification. That is just part of bettering yourself for the future and securing your job. Sure they will reimburse me for the test cost, and maybe the schooling. But the time you spend to study and learn is just on you. Not the employer.

I think the point here is that you are a full time employee whereas the VO is only on shortterm contract...

 

[Fuzzy Logik]

Thank You.

You do what's expected of you, and you keep the bitching to a minimum because that's what you're expected to do.

That's why you're paid.

OK, I acan see some guys working in a one hundred degree industrial plant bitching about their jobs, because it's, oh, actually work. But not a bunch of mamby-pamby voice actors who are pissed off because their dreams of the silver screen were shattered after they were rejected by Backyard Pornos or some other low-budget adult entertainment firm.

I wonder if these "voice actors" have ever put in a day of actual work their entire lives.

Fellatio in the back of a Buick does not count.

No Thank you!

That is precisely how I feel.

 

[Mindriot]

I think the point here is that you are a full time employee whereas the VO is only on shortterm contract...

Point is if you got the contract and you are preparing for the recording. That is on you. You are making sure you don't sound like a retard once you go into the studio, and you don't get fired on the spot for wasting valuble development time.

Also the point is if you were hired for your professional VO talents. It's assumed by the employer that you prepare yourself well before recording time anyway (the time you are actually paid for). It's part of why they hired you in the first place. Your paid for the recording time not preparation time.

 

[chrisf6969]

Please strike!!!!

I'll glady step in and come do some non-union work for the games industry.

I've been told I have a very sexy voice!

But seriously, let them strike, when they see how many non-union actors line up for the jobs, I think they will be singing a different tune.

It happens all the time, when people already have a good deal. Scabs or non-union workers take up the slack no problem.

LET THEM STRIKE! damn cry babies.

I understand that these people don't work 40 hrs /week at that rate. But when you don't work a lot of hours that gives you time for another job.

Like me. I have my main job, then I also get some side tech support, web design, whatever jobs, etc....

Lets say they average only 4 hours a week that = $60k/year. (@ $278/hour)
Not bad, getting paid nicely to work 1/10th the number of hours that average person works.

And then if they have another part/or full time job add 20-50k/year and they're at about the 100k/year. Not bad in my book.

 

[jordan12]

Thank You.

You do what's expected of you, and you keep the bitching to a minimum because that's what you're expected to do.

That's why you're paid.

OK, I acan see some guys working in a one hundred degree industrial plant bitching about their jobs, because it's, oh, actually work. But not a bunch of mamby-pamby voice actors who are pissed off because their dreams of the silver screen were shattered after they were rejected by Backyard Pornos or some other low-budget adult entertainment firm.

I wonder if these "voice actors" have ever put in a day of actual work their entire lives.

Fellatio in the back of a Buick does not count.

But you know, I sell insurance for a living. And do not "work hard" in the terms of physical labor. But I do sometimes complain about my job. But there is such thing as mental fatigue. And I get that quite frequently. So isnt it possible a Voice actor can get that way as well? He needs to prepare. Needs to get his voice toned correctly. And needs to stay in character the whole time. He might also experience a great deal of Mental fatigue. SO they might need to bitch once in awhile as well. Mainly because I believe that Mental fatique can be as significant as working on a construction site.
And because of this, they deserve to have the same amount of respect and understanding.

 

[jon_k]

Wow.

That's like saying, "I don't get paid at home for the research I do that I know my boss expects me to have".

That's bullshit.

When you have a deadline, you work towards it. You put the company (and I know this is a really difficult concept for actor-types) ahead of your own damn problems and you get it done.

Overtime is great, but I can't stay at the damn office all day. You have to do work on your own and not expect to get paid.

It's that whole not being lazy thing, which I think most actors have a realy hard time understanding.

If they did get it, they wouldn't be actors. They would have real fucking jobs.

Let me get this straight? You're bitching becasue someone wants to get paid for work they do? We aren't talking about an hour of work here or there at home. The majority of work that actors do is by themselves. For every one hour an actor spends behind a mic, or in front of a camera, you can count on at least 10 hours of work behind the scenes. Good actors do even more. I know someone in film who works 16 hour days every day when it's all said and done. Most people don't even stay awake that long, and you wanna tell me he is lazy?

A "real fucking job"? Well what do you do that's so important? Sit in an office and engineer stuff? You don't do shit - now that last comment wasn't meant as an insult, it was meant as a way of showing you what it feels like when someone tells you your job is bullshit. Not a good feeling is it? How about you quit flaming things you haven't even tried. First go out and ATTEMPT to be an actor and see how hard it is before you go on saying we all are lazy and need to get real jobs.

 

[jordan12]

Let me get this straight? You're bitching becasue someone wants to get paid for work they do? We aren't talking about an hour of work here or there at home. The majority of work that actors do is by themselves. For every one hour an actor spends behind a mic, or in front of a camera, you can count on at least 10 hours of work behind the scenes. Good actors do even more. I know someone in film who works 16 hour days every day when it's all said and done. Most people don't even stay awake that long, and you wanna tell me he is lazy?

A "real fucking job"? Well what do you do that's so important? Sit in an office and engineer stuff? You don't do shit - now that last comment wasn't meant as an insult, it was meant as a way of showing you what it feels like when someone tells you your job is bullshit. Not a good feeling is it? How about you quit flaming things you haven't even tried. First go out and ATTEMPT to be an actor and see how hard it is before you go on saying we all are lazy and need to get real jobs.

Now this is one fantastically spoken post. Hit the truth right on the head!! bravo to you, sir

 

[T0ddyH0oddy]

Let me get this straight? You're bitching becasue someone wants to get paid for work they do? We aren't talking about an hour of work here or there at home. The majority of work that actors do is by themselves. For every one hour an actor spends behind a mic, or in front of a camera, you can count on at least 10 hours of work behind the scenes. Good actors do even more. I know someone in film who works 16 hour days every day when it's all said and done. Most people don't even stay awake that long, and you wanna tell me he is lazy?

A "real fucking job"? Well what do you do that's so important? Sit in an office and engineer stuff? You don't do shit - now that last comment wasn't meant as an insult, it was meant as a way of showing you what it feels like when someone tells you your job is bullshit. Not a good feeling is it? How about you quit flaming things you haven't even tried. First go out and ATTEMPT to be an actor and see how hard it is before you go on saying we all are lazy and need to get real jobs.

If you're implying that all I think is that all actors are lazy and their work is insubstantial and rediculously irrelelvant, you'd be right.

 

[bonkrowave]

But you know, I sell insurance for a living. And do not "work hard" in the terms of physical labor. But I do sometimes complain about my job. But there is such thing as mental fatigue. And I get that quite frequently. So isnt it possible a Voice actor can get that way as well? He needs to prepare. Needs to get his voice toned correctly. And needs to stay in character the whole time. He might also experience a great deal of Mental fatigue. SO they might need to bitch once in awhile as well. Mainly because I believe that Mental fatique can be as significant as working on a construction site.
And because of this, they deserve to have the same amount of respect and understanding.

Anyone involved in insurance really shouldn't complain. Insurance companies, followed closely by insurance brokers are the highest percent profit companies there are. Insurance is another industry where people are paid way to much.

It always amazes me that my insurance premiums can skyrocket past the rate of inflation every single year.

 

[Mindriot]

But you know, I sell insurance for a living. And do not "work hard" in the terms of physical labor. But I do sometimes complain about my job. But there is such thing as mental fatigue. And I get that quite frequently. So isnt it possible a Voice actor can get that way as well? He needs to prepare. Needs to get his voice toned correctly. And needs to stay in character the whole time. He might also experience a great deal of Mental fatigue. SO they might need to bitch once in awhile as well. Mainly because I believe that Mental fatique can be as significant as working on a construction site.
And because of this, they deserve to have the same amount of respect and understanding.

No offense but the guy 10 stories up walking on 8 inch thick Steel Beams has BOTH mental and Phisical Fatigue. You people who complain about Mental Fatigue only have that one type of fatigue. People who work in construction or other laboring and Dangerous jobs usually have both. The mental and the physical. Just becasue these guys walk 10 stories up all day doesn't mean they are used to it. It's both Mental and Physical.

Sorry if I sound like I'm bashing, But it's not as significant as a construction site. Sorry man.

 

[jon_k]

If you're implying that all I think is that all actors are lazy and their work is insubstantial and rediculously irrelelvant, you'd be right.

About laziness... you are entitled to your opinion. It's an uninformed opinion, but an opinion the same. I wadger you don't know anyone who does acting for a living.


Irrelevant? How many times have you watched a movie with a date? How many times have you watched a funny TV show or movie and laughed your head off? How many times after seeing a good movie have you walked away and felt "damn that was awsome"? What about all the shows that Bob Hope used to do for the troops overseas? You think THAT is irrelevant?