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Video card recommendation

S

sjw7

n00b
Joined
Apr 9, 2007
Messages
22
Hi all

My current card is starting to have a few issues so i am looking for a replacement. My setup is as follows

Nvidia 8800 GTS 640MB
Intel Core 2 Duo 6400
4GB RAM
Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3

I use it to play Eve Online, WoW and (when its released ) Diablo 3. Im not into first person shooters so dont need it to be the fastest card in the world. I run two monitors so dual output is a must for me.

My budget is up to £100 max but I would like to keep it as far below this as possible as at some point I will upgrade the rest of the PC and will be looking for a better graphics card then.

I am realistic and know im not going to get the best card for this budget and I understand that the CPU may throttle the card somewhat.

I am not worried if its ATI or Nvidia so either manufacturer is fine with me. I was looking at the Nvidia 250 GTS but am woefully out of date on my video card knowledge so dont know if this is the area i should be aiming at.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Simon
 
There's been some deals on 768mb 460's lately. Not sure about in the UK, but they've been on sale for $99 (refurb'd) to about $120 on newegg (after MIR). There's a 1gb 460 for $130 after MIR too.

I'm seeing 5850's for $140 on newegg(another at 145$ after MIR w/ shogun 2 if you're interested in it) and 6850's for $145 after MIR.

I think those would be decent options for your price range. You'd save some money too.

Here's what I'd look at:

60ish £: 460 768mb
75ish £: 460 1GB or 5850

After that it looks like the cost increases quite a bit before you hit another good performance jump. The 5850 and 460 1gb look like they'd be about twice as fast as what you currently have.


What resolution are you running at?
 
oops. forgot that bit. Im running at 1900x1200 on one monitor and 1200x1024 on the other.

Thanks for the suggestions I will have a look at those two cards.

cheers

Simon
 
gtx460 or 5850 will not come close to being able to run at their best settings because of that cpu. I would just get a cheap 5770 as that would be a large upgrade and use much less power at the same time.
 
Haha, no idea in the UK. Amazon or Buy.com maybe?


Prices there are weird.

Most the 5850s I see are 168-180

There's a 5870 though for 150, which wouldn't be a bad choice since it seems all the prices are high.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/XFX-Radeon-...MWXO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1303716092&sr=8-1

There's also 1gb 460's for 137
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palit-1GB-G...97D0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1303716275&sr=8-4

I'd go with the 5870 for the extra 13 pounds though.

Here's a rough comparison:

perfrel.gif



From my quick browsing it looks like you'll be getting least screwed on the hd5870 at 150(~$247) since they're going for about $250 on US sites.

For example, a 5770 providing 1/2 the performance still costs 75% as much as a 5870 (100-110 pounds), and a 6950 which provides similar performance is about 50 pounds more.
 
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I would probably just pick up a 4870 for $50-75 USD (around 50 GBP) which is comparable to 5770.
 
cannondale06 said:
gtx460 or 5850 will not come close to being able to run at their best settings because of that cpu. I would just get a cheap 5770 as that would be a large upgrade and use much less power at the same time.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much of a bottleneck my e7200 @ 3.8ghz will be for my 6950 coming in tomorrow lol
 
bencho said:
what's a good matchup for the 6950 then?
Click to expand...
a fast Core 2 quad at the very minimum if you want to actually get the most out of that gpu. if you were going to do an upgrade then a 2500k sandy bridge would have you set for the next few years.

with your current dual core cpu you are looking at about 30-40% of what that 6950 can do going right down the drain in more cpu intensive games. of course it will still be perfectly playable framerates in nearly every case but the point was a cheaper video card would give you the same playable performance.
 
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cannondale06 said:
a fast Core 2 quad at the very minimum if you want to actually get the most out of that gpu. if you were going to do an upgrade then a 2500k sandy bridge would have you set for the next few years.

with your current dual core cpu you are looking at about 30-40% of what that 6950 can do going right down the drain in more cpu intensive games. of course it will still be perfectly playable framerates in nearly every case but the point was a cheaper video card would give you the same playable performance.
Click to expand...

CPU bottlenecking exists, but not in an extreme case as you are painting it, also doubtful where you pulled such numbers, specially when the OP is gonna play at a fairly mid-high resolution. Besides of some console ports, AMD cards are known to be much less CPU dependant than Fermi's counterparts. Intel Conroe/Penryn CPU"s are great gaming chips (When they have 3MB of L2 cache or higher), and will be enough for an HD 6950, while the FPS difference against the HD 6870 might be small in CPU bound situations, he can raise the eye candy and keep the same framerate, something that the HD 6870 might not be able to do. Don't underestimate CPU bottlenecking, but don't overestimate it either.
 
Thanks for all the replies lots of very useful information. I am currently leaning towards the 5770 as a 1GB version will cost about £90 but am spending time reading reviews and trying to get my head around the model numbers and how they relate to each other.

The debate about CPU throttling is interesting so I dont want to get something that i am not going to get the benefit from but at the same time I am wondering if with the games i play it will be an issue for me.

Cheers

Simon
 
The 5770 isn't bad. I have two and really like them. Quiet, overclock well, don't use a lot of power, and they perform well.
Just found a couple on this website for £88, which is more bearable than the £99 I was seeing before
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-scanfx-radeon-hd-5770-pci-e-21


At your resolution though I'd recommend something more. You can overclock your cpu and replace it later and still keep a higher end card.

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...r5-gpu-850mhz-1600-cores-dp-hdmi-2-x-dl-dvi-i

If you can't do that, go for the 1GB gtx460
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-...er-clock-1450mhz-336-cores-dldvi-i-hdmi-d-sub

There's also a 6870 on there with the twin frozr cooler for 148. Worse performance than the 5870 but if you want it to be cooler and quieter at the cost of some performance it's an option.

Overall since you're running a higher resolution than I am (1440x900) I think a 5770 won't quite cut it and these cards would be a better long-term option. If you absolutely can't stretch the budget though the 5770 isn't a bad card.
 
The 5870 looks like a good idea. I dont quite get the 6870 as it seems like a lesser card than the 5870 but is the same chip in the newer generation. I couldnt quite see what it offers asside from the lower power/temp.

My other concern is that my current mainboard is only PCIe 1.0 (or 1.1) but the cards i am looking at are PCIe 2.0 or 2.1. I have read that mainboards that are 1.x are able to run cards based on 2.x but at a lower transfer rate. Do you know of any way i can confirm if the card will work in my mainboard or is it case of crossing my fingers and hopeing :D

Cheers

Simon
 
The 6870 with the aftermarket cooler should be much cooler, quieter, and it'll also use less power than the 5870. But it'll be about 10% slower. Really just a matter of what you want.

This review compares the 6870, 6850 and 5870
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6850-6870-review/17

Another review with comparisons
http://www.techspot.com/review/325-amd-radeon-6870/page11.html

The 6 series also provides better crossfire scaling(not sure if you care) and tesselation performance iirc(somewhat better performance in newer games that use it). The 6870 doesn't overclock very well, but the 5870 overclocks I saw weren't all that great either. Maybe someone else can chime in.

So I'd probably get the 6870 for my comp since I hate noise, but you may feel differently.

[Edit:] The 6870 was apparently not the 5870's replacement. And generally the 5870 used to also cost a lot more. But now I guess they've dropped prices to reflect reality.
 
evolucion8 said:
CPU bottlenecking exists, but not in an extreme case as you are painting it, also doubtful where you pulled such numbers, specially when the OP is gonna play at a fairly mid-high resolution. Besides of some console ports, AMD cards are known to be much less CPU dependant than Fermi's counterparts. Intel Conroe/Penryn CPU"s are great gaming chips (When they have 3MB of L2 cache or higher), and will be enough for an HD 6950, while the FPS difference against the HD 6870 might be small in CPU bound situations, he can raise the eye candy and keep the same framerate, something that the HD 6870 might not be able to do. Don't underestimate CPU bottlenecking, but don't overestimate it either.
Click to expand...

No, cannondale06 is right. With the OP's existing CPU, it totally would hold back both of those GPUs by a good 30-40% at least.

An E6400 is an old CPU and even if OCed, it doesn't have the horsepower that even a Core i3 at the same GHz would have.

I agree, an HD6850 or HD5770 would be about all that CPU would be able to handle without bottlenecking.
 
He is in the UK and said his budget was 100 max, hence my link.Oops I see that I listed it as dollars. But if he hits the link he will see my info is correct.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. On reflection i have decided to increase my budget to around £150. The main reason for this is to ensure i get a card that will last a few years and something that will work well with my system when i upgrade it in the next twelve months.

CPU throttling isnt a major worry for me at the moment as even if i lose a fair bit of performance compared to what the card is capable of I probably wont notice it in the games i play and will get it back when i upgrade the cpu and mainboard.

Something like this is what i am considering (previously linked by someone else)

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1gb-xfx-hd-5870-pci-e-21-(x16)-4800mhz-gddr5-gpu-850mhz-1600-cores-dp-hdmi-2-x-dl-dvi-i
 
OP's CPU may not be ideal, but it's fine for the price range he's considering. Eventualy when you upgrade OP, you'll reap slight benefits, but it's no big deal.

100 GBP is $165. OP, try to get an EVGA 460 or other nice 460, 5850 or a 6870. These would be good values for your money in the US, plus or minus depending on warranty and cooler, etc. If you find better for your money more power to you.
 
well you will be lucky to get much more than half of what a 5870 can do in many games. your cpu is about like my E8500 lowered to 2.1 which will be a massive bottleneck for a 5870. plus within 12 months there will be even better, faster cards to choose from when you do decide to upgrade your cpu.
 
Probably the best choice. I think the only thing better would be the 6870 if you know you'll crossfire it later(xfire 6870 > xfire 5870, and I imagine 6870s will be cheaper in the future than 5870s).
 
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cannondale06 said:
well you will be lucky to get much more than half of what a 5870 can do in many games. your cpu is about like my E8500 lowered to 2.1 which will be a massive bottleneck for a 5870.
Click to expand...

if he buys 5870, you'll do better then him in TF2 and...

BC2 he also won't do too good

but...
he'd get twice of your FPS in Crysis/Metro/STALKER

My point is 5870 would be a really great upgrade for him, particularly with non-CPU-pigish games.
 
HohnyF said:
if he buys 5870, you'll do better then him in TF2 and...

BC2 he also won't do too good

but...
he'd get twice of your FPS in Crysis/Metro/STALKER
Click to expand...
no he wont in all those cases. plus I can lower a graphical setting or two and play every game made just fine where his cpu will keep some games from being very smooth no matter what. the only reason to get the 5870 is if its a killer deal not costing but a small bit more than a better suited card.
 
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Crysis/Metro/Stalker he should be able to play almost maxed

Those will be GPU bounded scenarios and 2.66GHz should do just fine. That is my prediction at least xD
 
Andrew_Carr said:
This should provide more information on CPU bottlenecking with the 5870 and his CPU. Does look like the 5870 would be bottlenecked a bit(I'm assuming he can at least OC to 2.7ghz) in some games. CoD:WaW and Crysis seem like the worst hit, but a lot of the others show very little to no difference.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870-cpu-scaling.html

I'm going by max settings at 1920x1200 btw
Click to expand...
he has an E6400 which is about 20% slower than that E8400 clock for clock.
 
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HohnyF said:
Crysis/Metro/Stalker he should be able to play almost maxed

Those will be GPU bounded scenarios and 2.66GHz should do just fine. That is my prediction at least xD
Click to expand...
again 2.66 on his cpu would only be like 2.1 on mine so that is big difference. now you are pretty right about those 3 games but even those would not perform nearly as well as with a better cpu especially in minimum framerates.

I have some benchmarks at home but I had to leave because of all the damage from the huge tornado outbreak in Alabama last week. hopefully we will have utilities restored in the next few days and I can go home. :(
 
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Well of course sufficiently faster CPU will allways give better FPS, but...

you should think the other way around :)

he'll do fine with his E6400 and 5870 in all cases where E8200 would do fine, and in cases when he's screwed, 6MB Wolfdale won't save him
 
HohnyF said:
Well of course sufficiently faster CPU will allways give better FPS, but...

you should think the other way around :)

he'll do fine with his E6400 and 5870 in all cases where E8200 would do fine, and in cases when he's screwed, 6MB Wolfdale won't save him
Click to expand...
that does not make too much sense as the E8200 would be 20% faster. with a 5870 that would translate into 20% more performance because he will basically be 100% cpu limited. again I would only get the 5870 if it was not much more than a more appropriate card.
 
HohnyF said:
Well of course sufficiently faster CPU will allways give better FPS, but...

you should think the other way around :)

he'll do fine with his E6400 and 5870 in all cases where E8200 would do fine, and in cases when he's screwed, 6MB Wolfdale won't save him
Click to expand...

No, he won't, that CPU will hold that GPU back by a minimum of 50%.

An E8200 @ stock would only hold a HD5870 back by 35-40% or so, but both CPU's are getting up there in age.

A system should be built from bottom up, not top down.

Investing in such a powerful GPU like that would be a total waste of money with the CPU the OP currently has. He said he wants to upgrade, but by the time he does, more powerful GPUs for the same cost will be out, so there isn't really a point to upgrade that far at the moment.

I would hate to buy a $300-400 GPU and then get held back by 50% when I could have bough a $100 GPU to get the same performance.
 
cannondale06 said:
he has an E6400 which is about 20% slower than that E8400 clock for clock.
Click to expand...

Ah, my bad. I guess the 5770 isn't a bad choice then($50 less than the 460 1gb for comparison). He can always crossfire it later for 5870 performance levels.
 
Red Falcon said:
I would hate to buy a $300-400 GPU and then get held back by 50% when I could have bough a $100 GPU to get the same performance.
Click to expand...

Who'd buy 5870 for $400 LOL


With what $100 GPU.
and in what games do u expect to match his performance with 5870?

@Andrew For GTX 460 u'd want at least as good, possibly better CPU then for 5870 xD
Rendering on NV demands more CPU power
 
HohnyF said:
Who'd buy 5870 for $400 LOL


With what $100 GPU.
and in what games do u expect to match his performance with 5870?

@Andrew For GTX 460 u'd want at least as good, possibly better CPU then for 5870 xD
Rendering on NV demands more CPU power
Click to expand...
again, I can make the most gpu intensive games at playable by turning down a couple of settings. I know because I have already played all of those games at 1920x1080. he cannot just turn down some settings and get that cpu to smoothly handle games like Bad Company 2, Red Faction Guerrilla, Ghostbusters, Prototype, GTA 4 and a few others.
 
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