Vertical Sync [Vsync]

or you could turn it off entirely by going into the NV Display settings.

right click on your desktop, and select the "Nvidia Display" and the display you are using.
look around there.
 
It takes away screen tearing. Leave it on, I hate screen tearing :mad:
 
J-M-E said:
It takes away screen tearing. Leave it on, I hate screen tearing :mad:
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There is only screen tearing if the fps is higher than your monitors refresh rate.
 
rcf1987 said:
There is only screen tearing if the fps is higher than your monitors refresh rate.
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should I turn off Wait for V Sync in HL2? My monitor has a refresh rate of 60 hertz and I get around 60 fps in HL2, 35-50 fps when everythings all hectic.
 
rcf1987 said:
There is only screen tearing if the fps is higher than your monitors refresh rate.
Click to expand...

You get screen tearing if your monitors refresh and video card frame output are not synced, that can happen with a frame rate lower than your monitors refresh rate, higher than it, or even at the exact same frequency.

tearing becomes MORE visible with frame rates significantly higher than your refresh rate because your seeing segments of more frames in one refresh, but it still occurs with frame rates below your refresh rate, its much less noticeable.

i never bother with vsync, I cant see tearing when im concentraiting on my game, only when im looking for it, and too many games now a days dont have well balanced/optimised maps which often lead to a large frame rate difference in game, if your video card can't handle the refresh rate freqency then you suddenly drop to half of the refresh rate, which is anoying.
 
whats the point of turning vsync off if you get lower fps then your refresh rate anyways? It only limits your fps. Its a good thing no matter what your fps is
 
ahh, ok, I turned it off... and Im not gettin low FPS, I was gettin 60 max, now its 100max in WoW with everything on high :) and it tears once in a while but its fine.
 
First, you are/were getting 60fps because you need to go to the Refresh Rate Override tab in Nvidia's control panel and set it up. The 60Hz thing is a sucky phenomenon that happens in XP/2K with gaming. You are still only seeing 60fps, cause thats what your refresh rate still is, with or without VSync disabled. So go set the overrides and get your proper fps.

Second, Frosteh, disabling VSync only results in tearing if your framerate is higher than the monitor refresh rate, not lower. The reason you get tearing is VSync limits the vid card's frame output to the vertical refresh of the monitor....thus it will only output a full page, on time, and obviously never overlap. If your card is throwing out 120fps and your refresh rate is only 85, you are going to get plenty of half frames displayed, aka overlap.
However, if your card is only throwing out 35fps, your monitor has absolutely no problem accepting that and it will be displayed perfectly normal with no overlap.

Disabling VSync is only good for one thing: benchmarking hardware capabilities.
 
ChronicTrees said:
Heh, unless you like owning in online games.
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Vsync for my in Counter-Strike Source, it seems different, but I realize it doesn't actually lag my mouse, it's just that I'm not used to seeing such a smooth picture, which makes it seem like it's lagging, but I can still do my perfect 360 degree spins and such.

Limiting your FPS to your refresh rate does NOT get rid of screen tearing, if anything, it's just as bad, Vsync helps alot for image quality. without it, I can't tell what I'm doing.
 
Big Fat Duck said:
whats the point of turning vsync off if you get lower fps then your refresh rate anyways? It only limits your fps. Its a good thing no matter what your fps is
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When ever refresh rate sync is enabled, it will hold the screen draw until a complete draw conicides with the refresh timing, so if your monitor refresh is 60 hz and the game does 40 to 59 FPS, this will only happen every second refresh, in effect 30 fps. It will also slow down anything above 60 fps to coincide with the 60 hz. Basically, it sucks.

I have lived without vsync so long now I don't even miss it. I may be blind, but I never see the screen tearing on my LCD that I used to see on my crt, so it's really not bad disabling it to me.
 
Just yesterday I went from 1600x1200@60hz, to 1280x1024@75hz to play Counter-Strike, it's much more enjoyable, and the game plays smoother :)
 
Borgschulze said:
Just yesterday I went from 1600x1200@60hz, to 1280x1024@75hz to play Counter-Strike, it's much more enjoyable, and the game plays smoother :)
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I've noticed the same thing, running with vsync in CSS helps a lot for whatever reason, even when you're not hitting max. I haven't noticed the same thing in other games.

Also, for anyone interested in testing vsync out, make SURE to enable triple buffering.
 
Isn't triple buffering OpenGL only? Either that or I missed the option.

Oh and with the higher refresh rate, my monitor tears much more easily.
 
Looks like you're right, I thought the option was for both OGL and DX. DirectX seem to handle the issue fine by itself though.
 
if u dont have monitor driver installed u wont be able to up the Hz to 75 or 100, ya need to make sure ur monitor is identified and not sitting at default plug n play crap.

ive read about Vysnc and lots of ppl said leave off, so i have and havent really noticed much tearing or it just doesnt bother me, and I Pwn at Css, im gonna have to conduct my own experiment.
 
My monitor says Plug n Play, I use the refresh rate override, it's set to 75hz, when I switch to 1600x1200 for desktop, it goes back to 60hz, but when I open Counter-Strike, it bumps up to 75hz because it changed to 1280x1024... no problems here.
 
-freon- said:
Second, Frosteh, disabling VSync only results in tearing if your framerate is higher than the monitor refresh rate, not lower. The reason you get tearing is VSync limits the vid card's frame output to the vertical refresh of the monitor....thus it will only output a full page, on time, and obviously never overlap. If your card is throwing out 120fps and your refresh rate is only 85, you are going to get plenty of half frames displayed, aka overlap.
However, if your card is only throwing out 35fps, your monitor has absolutely no problem accepting that and it will be displayed perfectly normal with no overlap.
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I agree with other things you said except this. Tearing can definitely happen when the frame rate is lower than the refresh rate. When frame rate is 35fps, the card is not throwing out 35fps to the monitor - it's still throwing out at whatever the refresh rate it's running at.

Here is how frame buffer works. The card renders to the back buffer, and whether or not the frame is finished drawing, the back buffer will be flipped to the front buffer (what you see on screen) every 1/60 second (given that the refresh rate is at 60hz). You will get the tearing every time the back buffer is flipped to the front before an entire frame is finished or when an entire frame is finished but being rendered over with a newer frame(s).
 
With Vsync on your video card should run slightly cooler too :D Since it's not doing as much work because it's being limited.
 
Supasso said:
I agree with other things you said except this. Tearing can definitely happen when the frame rate is lower than the refresh rate. When frame rate is 35fps, the card is not throwing out 35fps to the monitor - it's still throwing out at whatever the refresh rate it's running at.

Here is how frame buffer works. The card renders to the back buffer, and whether or not the frame is finished drawing, the back buffer will be flipped to the front buffer (what you see on screen) every 1/60 second (given that the refresh rate is at 60hz). You will get the tearing every time the back buffer is flipped to the front before an entire frame is finished or when an entire frame is finished but being rendered over with a newer frame(s).
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Yeah, I realized the error I made after posting that, thanks.
You can get tearing with a lower FPS when VSync is off, because the card wont be sending frames in sync with the monitor refreshing the screen.
As long as it is on, you are fine.. Even with 35fps.
 
I don't know why the "above" the reresh rate thing is given the most attention. it's completely the opposite. Just look at the examples the guys even use. When's the last time you got 125fps on your 85Hz display? What game was that in?

Tearing wouldn't be half the problem it is if that was the problem. We'd higher the settings or put a frame rate CAP on, and be done with it. Vsync wouldn't be halving our frame rate. I'd be getting fanned off by swedish stewardesses. I just see this spread a lot. Please don't spread false information.

Not only does tearing happen below the refresh rate, lower fps than refresh is the real problem in the end. It's causing most of the tears in modern games (doubt my BF2 and FEAR tearing is fps>98Hz), and it's why vsync halfs you to correct it.
 
well my games barely tear, maybe for 3 seconds every once in a while that I play. But I love the extra FPS, never lags!
 
Vsync is an absolute necessity for me. I'm very perceptive and I used to notice screen tearing in just about every game with Vsync disabled. And let me tell ya, screen tearing is one of the most annoying things ever! I'm suprised the developers of MGS2 let it get by, because that game had some MAJOR tearing issues, and it's a console game so you couldn't even fix it! I think tearing is one of those things that a lot of people don't care to notice, like ghosting on LCD screens, which is why they argue that vsync should be off.

But the truth of it all is that most modern [CRT] monitors are running at 85+ Hz, so having Vsync on will limit your frame rate to 85 FPS, which is more or less no different than 300 FPS to the human eye.

So get over it, having frame rates in the 100's is pointless. 85+ FPS will no doubt give you liquid smooth results.

Vsync 4 Life! ;)
 
Another one, look, even if 85fps were the same as 300fps, who cares? That's not the problem. Going above your refresh rate is almost non-metionable. Yet other people make it there primary focus. Vsync on a 100Hz display will net you 50fps every time it goes below 100, and probably 33 when it goes below 50. So you get jumping. 100fps, 50fps, 33fps, 50 fps, 33 fps, etc, and mouse lag!

Your analogy with tearing and denying blurring is a bit off. I see blurs and tears just the same. I have good eyes. Denial is not the issue. Here it is do you want mouse lag, jumpy fps, and tearing OR tearing with none of the other baggage. Since there are pros and cons to either. I understand if jumpy fps and mouse lag are worth going without tearing and hence enabling vsync. It's about making the decision with proper knowledge. By deciding I'd rather go without vsync because my CRT handles it well, makes me no less sensitive to tearing. Just an educated decision. Since I fully understand the situation, I have made an educated descion to forgo mouse lag and jumpy frames. By focusing on above the refresh rate seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding. Sorry, but it is extremely easy to flip this on you and say you are actually not sensitive to jumpy fps. You've totally ignored the biggest part. It seems you don't have a full understanding of the problem.

I guess by your logic, I've one upped you. By being sensitive to all of the above, I made my choice and picked my pros and my cons. So now I can insinuate you are in denial to your mouse lag and jumpy frames eh? If you know this stuff I apologize but you ignored the biggest part. The downward pressure vsync puts on your framerate, in jumps. I mean shit, who's getting through the roof framerates in FEAR etc? A frame rate cap is fine, but that has nothing to do with why vsync, to some, stinks! People with LCDs are playing at a pretty consistent 30fps.
 
texuspete00 said:
Vsync on a 100Hz display will net you 50fps every time it goes below 100, and probably 33 when it goes below 50. So you get jumping. 100fps, 50fps, 33fps, 50 fps, 33 fps, etc, and mouse lag!
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Triple buffering fixes that, and direct x handles it without that problem too in my experience.
 
Triple Buffering may introduce some mouse lag too, but it is definitely the way to handle it if you are sensitive to tearing. Sadly, a lot of the big games right now don't support it.

Where I disagree with you is in Direct X support. Nv and Ati seem to have a way to force it for OpenGL, but not for DX. Furthermore, many of my Dx games don't have it automatically either. So unless you want to try out DXTweaker and start messing around, a lot of the time you are still going to have to make a choice. Don't be confused by jumpy frame rate counters. FPS is still a function involving an average over time. Vsync is holding a single frame to the tune of 1 or 2 or 3+ refreshes, until the next frame is ready. In a given second, there can be varying amounts of vsync operations like that. Games like BF2 don't exactly go 60-30-60-30 like may have been implied.... but instead they just kind of hang out around your vsync points. Holding on to those frames is the mouse lag.

It's a good point. But all the more reason to rally around more DX support IMO.
 
texuspete, I've never had issues with jumpy fps and mouse lag with vsync on. And I've played a fair share of games with both vsync on and vsync off. My frame rates have always been right up there with my refresh rate. The frame rate counter in UT2004 for example is almost always at 85 FPS. Same with my other games except the more modern ones like FEAR for example because obviously I'm not gonna reach 85 in that game unless I'm staring at a wall. ;)

But seriously, I've never seen frame rates be as inconsistent as you say, in any game. As long as my hardware is new, the frame rate is always at or near the refresh rate. To be honest I never even heard of vsync actually doing anything other than limiting your FPS to the refresh rate until I heard someone on these forums say that it negatively impacts your performance. Not to say that I don't believe it, but if it is true, then the effect is so minimal that not even the most hardcore obsessive cumpulsive is gonna notice it, because I'm pretty obsessive compulsive when it comes to smooth gaming, and I wouldn't allow it if the frame rates jumped as much as you say.
 
i have my 17" dell crt and driver installed and run at 100hz did the vsync in CS:source and not only where my shots off and cost me kills(i played many maps for a very long time, ill even get video to show.)but i didnt notice that there wasnt tearing it made my gaming experience worse.

but i guess it could be argued that i only tried on CS:source, but then again i found my proof in the pudding and it tasted like tapoica, no thanx. :p

so back to Pwnage with the m4 and ak47, and the infamous AWP.
 
texuspete00 said:
Another one, look, even if 85fps were the same as 300fps, who cares? That's not the problem. Going above your refresh rate is almost non-metionable. Yet other people make it there primary focus. Vsync on a 100Hz display will net you 50fps every time it goes below 100, and probably 33 when it goes below 50. So you get jumping. 100fps, 50fps, 33fps, 50 fps, 33 fps, etc, and mouse lag!
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I'm not sure what you are using to make you think using VSync on a 100Hz display nets you 50fps every time it goes below 100, but I never have that problem. I haven't seen that happen in any game.
And in the other post you bring up mouse lag? Holy crap if I got mouselag from having VSync on I wouldn't have it on, EVER! FPS games are my favorite and competing online is my favorite way to play them. I haven't experienced mouselag in anything from Quake1 to now.

Going above refresh rate is mentionable. You are very likely to get more tearing (I am beginning to wonder if you even know what tearing is) when your FPS is higher than your refresh rate, than when it is lower.. Obviously, if your vid card is spitting out 150fps to a monitor running at 85fps, you are going to end up with the overlap known as tearing.
BTW, your CRT doesn't handle it any better than any other CRT in the world.
 
Look, I know what I'm talking about. I been around the block a few times. I want to try and put it kindly, but if you don't know anything about the halving thing, then it makes it obvious that you're the one who doesn't know what you are talking about. I've already explained halving the frame rate is more in reference to the graphics card holding a frame over another refresh, and that an actual average over a second can be a bit different.

I also would like to ask you again, what game are you getting well over 100 fps in? Thats right... none. More noticable tears, maybe. Let me know what setup, settings, and game you are getting 125fps in.

I don't think my CRT is special in any way other than it is one of the best ones you can buy. i.e. the refresh is quite good at high res. 1920*1200 @ 98Hz. 1600*1024 @ 125Hz! High refresh rates subjectively eases tearing for me. I was more alluding to the fact that an LCD @ 60Hz makes me enable vsync because it is that much more troublesome for me, rather than saying my monitor is some supreme non-tearing device.

Seriously, forums are a place to learn when you don't know certain things. Are you sure about you posted? Because I'm 1000% positive. Call it cocky, but if you're going to call me wrong make sure you know what you are talking about. Because I'm not speculating here. Now I'm sorry, but I'm done teaching for now. :)
 
-freon- said:
I'm not sure what you are using to make you think using VSync on a 100Hz display nets you 50fps every time it goes below 100, but I never have that problem. I haven't seen that happen in any game.
And in the other post you bring up mouse lag? Holy crap if I got mouselag from having VSync on I wouldn't have it on, EVER! FPS games are my favorite and competing online is my favorite way to play them. I haven't experienced mouselag in anything from Quake1 to now.

Going above refresh rate is mentionable. You are very likely to get more tearing (I am beginning to wonder if you even know what tearing is) when your FPS is higher than your refresh rate, than when it is lower.. Obviously, if your vid card is spitting out 150fps to a monitor running at 85fps, you are going to end up with the overlap known as tearing.
BTW, your CRT doesn't handle it any better than any other CRT in the world.
Click to expand...

Should I keep Vsync On or Off?
ANSWER
Frame rates will appear higher with vsync off but the amount of information displayed is limited by your monitor in that instance. A monitor with an 85 Hz refresh rate will only display 85 frames per second even if the videocard is rendering 400 frames a second. The visual quality may decline as a result also because some frames could be skipped as a result of excess rendering so the interpolation between the first frame and the next frame displayed could be off resulting in 'tearing' or jerkiness.

With vsync enabled, the refresh is either at the rate of the monitor, or a fraction thereof.
75hz refresh with vsync enabled may yield 75 frames per second.

It may also yield 37.5 frames per second. If the new frames are consistently not ready for display at each refresh, they're delayed until the next refresh, which can end up halve your frame rate, or worse.


and as far as 100+fps when i play CS:s i use cl_showfps 2 and show 100+ at times and yes it fluctuates, and another thing when i do stress test i get 109fps with minimal AA and AF.

another thing is i think it may depend on what game your playing and whether the game is a Online game.
 
For me the numbers and refresh rates are entirely academic. It is really simple. I heard for years to keep it off. Gamers keep it off. I tried it for shits and giggles recently. Damn if Doom3 didn't run about a million times more smoothly, with tearing almost entirely eradicated. Same deal with HL2. Far Cry on the other hand was not a v-sync success story. Got really framey on me with it enabled with the occasional stutter and hitch. Game by game basis is the way to go for me at least. I have little faith in frequently misleading fps counters. I do not need to have numbers tell me what I see. I know what I desire out of my gaming experience and adjust my settings accordingly.
 
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