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Venturing into the SFF world...

M

mluke245

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 23, 2005
Messages
174
Well, I never thought I would be looking into an SFF build but times have changed and I need something more convenient. I'm currently serving in our US Air Force overseas in Japan, and have been through almost 3 different "moves" now. Honestly, I hate lugging around even my Mid-Tower case anymore. Thus I'm seeking a better solution; this is where SFF comes in!

First off, I've pretty much nailed down what case I will be using; Silverstone SG01-B. As far as PSU's go, I already have a OCZ 520w Powerstream enroute. I will be putting in 2 SATA drives; 1 - 74gb Raptor and 1 - 300gb Seagate 7200.8 along with my IDE Plextor 716A DVD-RW. On top of that will be the addition of my 4000+ Clawhammer and 1gb of Crucial Ballistix PC4000. I currently have a X850 XT and Soundblaster ZS Audigy 2 Platinum Pro for PCI-X/PCI expansions. That would be ALL of my system components packed into this baby.

Now just a few questions before I dabble in the unknown. First and foremost I will be using a XP-90 heatsink with a Panaflo 92mm Fan for my 4000+. Will this combination fit fine within this case, or is there any limitations I should be aware of? As far as motherboards go, which would you prefer as best perfoming/decent overclockable headroom? I'm not looking at outrageous overclocking but something moddest...maybe push my 4000+ up to around 2.6ghz or higher.

Again, the main reason I'm looking into SFF is because, as we all know, being in the military your never in ONE place for a very long time. I will always be moving and space may vary from base to base. Another reason is for LAN parties. I figure its an obvious fact that smaller computer = more mobility. My concern right now is the lack of motherboard variety. I'm weary about buying an ATI chipset but if its price/perfomance ratio is there then it may change my mind. That being said, I'm more partial to nForce 4 mobo's but its all in which mobo fits the bill.

Feel free to comment on anything. Basically all I'm looking for right now is a few answers and some motherboard choices. If there are new mobo's in the horizon that I should look out for, please feel free to list them and post your thoughts. All advise is appreciated!
 
Jetway A210GDMS. There is only one nForce4 board and it has no overclocking options. This is the best board out right now and there really aren't any other options - and it's not bad. There was a review ([H]ard?) that showed that your card will even perform a little better on a Radeon Xpress board. I would recommend getting a PCI SATA controller, because the onboard controller craps out at high fsb. Otherwise, it's a perty damn nice OCer, for microATX.

Only other option really would be a Shuttle SN25P, but you would have to drop the Sound Blaster and sell the SG01/Modstream. It has good overclocking options, but only 1 useless PCI-E expansion slot and proprietary cooling.

The XP-90 fits, but you have to do a small amount of cutting.
 
I'll read some reviews about the Jetway board. Never used one before so I want to do some reading before I purchase and also for some info on the Xpress chipset. Does the ATi chipset support NCQ? What FSB does the SATA controller cut off at? Hopefully it will get me to 12x230 so at least I'm running at FX-55 speeds.

I originally was looking at the SN25P but if it had a normal PCI slot instead of the PCI-x 1x slot I would be all over that board. I want to keep my Platinum Pro because of the amount of audio options it has. Thats why I'm now looking into an mATX form. Maybe down the road I'll buy the SN25P for a HTPC.

Thanks for the info! Anyone else care to give there 2 cents?
 
as many know, I am not a fan of the Jetway board. I still maintain that it is no better than the MSI or Foxconn and the MSI and Foxconn have the 24pin connector as opposed to 20pin.


Where did you find that review for Jetway?
 
Heh, I got sidetracked at work and haven't been able to look up any reviews as of yet...if there are any.

Would you care to elaborate why you don't care for the Jetway board? I would like as many Pros/Cons about all products to make a good idea of what to buy. Isn't the 24pin native for the nForce 4 chipset? I was originally looking into the Foxconn but I'm at a toss-up between boards.

If anyone cares to throw their opinions out that would be much appreciated!
 
I thought it was for the nf4 ultra...but i dunno about the nf4. Honestly, my problems with the jetway are as follows:

1) unknown brand...yes brand name matters
2) 20 pin connector
3) They don't make graphics cards like MSI does...I like to get MSI board with MSI gpu or ASUS with ASUS..know what I mean?..this is not a huge deal really
4) No features to justify it being better than the known brands
5) no signs that Jetway will even continue making updates for the bios or continue making mATX boards at a good pace
6) Jetway has not shown itself to be keeping up with the new technology...such as no gigabyte and the 20 pin connector.

Just things like that, that make me unsure about this board. However, I haven't seen any reviews on it so we really can't say for sure.
 
Alot of good points to be taken into consideration. I understand brand matters but I was willing to give it a chance if it was worth it. I haven't really seen any mATX with named brands, besides the MSI board. I'm not too worried on matching brands with other peripherals just as long as there compatible.

Does anyone have good/bad experiences with the ATi or nForce 4 chipsets? I'm leaning towards the Foxcom board as I was earlier. I wish more known mobo manufacturers would jump on the mATX form factor and broaden my choices. I really don't want to have to sell my SB Platinum Pro just so I can buy a SN25P :( .

Can anything make this decision easier :confused: :)
 
Read the sticky on 939 boards: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=900405
That's everything you have to choose from that is not SiS/VIA and will not have a PCI/AGP lock. If you are only looking to do 230fsb, then a SiS or VIA board may actually work for you because that's about where they crap out, but I have not looked into any... But compare the overclocking options and make your own decision.

Steeeeve buys entirely based on brands and keeps soliciting that kind of advice. This guy is totally biased.
3. Says it all.
4. Is a lie, because he knows the A210GDMS has OC options and the MSI completely lacks any.
5. Jetway supplied a beta bios midway through development and just released the A03 version.

Jetway has been around exactly as long as MSI - 1986.

If you want to more opinions about the board, most of the anecdotal info on it is here: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=922764 The SATA goes out around 260, I think, so that might not be an issue for you. I believe it's in the thread above.

Radeon Xpress/nForce4 comparison: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2269&p=13
 
I hate people talking about other people when they don't know them...

I don't buy on brand names at all unless it is a PSU. If you don't know anything about a company why would you trust it? They need to prove they are trustworthy and by providing a product that is not better than either the Foxconn or MSI you don't get anyones trust. I mean who offers 20 pin connections on new boards these days?

As for the OCing options...good luck with that, it has minimal OCing opitions which don't justify I thing.

How many reviews have you read on the Jetway? Zero
How many on the MSI? atleast 3

True, Jetway has been around just as long but have they made their presence known? I don't think so


But yeah, you don't have to listen to me, I could care less; but don't insult my opinion because you don't know a damn thing about me
 
Steeeve, you always say that the Jetway has minimal ocing options but from everything I've read from people who actually own the Jetway boards, they are the BEST overclockers out of ALL the 939 mATX boards. You seem to have a lot of opinions and try to help people, but if you don't have hands on experience with these boards or have done extensive research, it's not good to give advice totally bashing a brand like Jetway. And what's wrong with 20 pin? Absolutely nothing from what I can tell, it's just a new standard. The extra 4 pins are overhead for the future, I guess it's kinda like the difference between PCI-X and AGP. Performance is about the same, but PCI-X is more future proof.
 
Steeeve, you always say that the Jetway has minimal ocing options but from everything I've read from people who actually own the Jetway boards, they are the BEST overclockers out of ALL the 939 mATX boards. You seem to have a lot of opinions and try to help people, but if you don't have hands on experience with these boards or have done extensive research, it's not good to give advice totally bashing a brand like Jetway. And what's wrong with 20 pin? Absolutely nothing from what I can tell, it's just a new standard. The extra 4 pins are overhead for the future, I guess it's kinda like the difference between PCI-X and AGP. Performance is about the same, but PCI-X is more future proof.
Click to expand...

Saying the best OCing for mATX is not something to write home about. Is it the best for OCing? Probably, but you from what I have read it doesn't boost performance by enough to jusitfy the other faults. Its like some guy saying "I have 100 bucks" and other guy going "I have 101 bucks" and bragging about how much better he is. As for the 20pin thing, you are right, it isn't "better" for anything unless you get a dual rail PSU and then it that case it has been shown to be a little better...nevertheless, it shows a company is keeping up with standards and staying on top of the game. Just like the release of SATA2, most people can't even get up to SATA1 standards but it shows a use of new standards in new times. There really is no excuse for having a board this new without a 24pin mobo. Now if Jetway had the nF4 Ultra chipset with 24pin connector and gigabyte ethernet then I would say it is probably a safe investment because Jetway will have created a project that seperates itself from the pack...thats how you prove yourself...you don't prove yourself by offering something slightly better and then stick on odd standard stuff (20 pin deal)...that tells me this company is not to concerned about this market.
 
Steeeeve, does not having the "latest" technology affect the buyer as a consumer? Is SATAII going to affect performance? Is 24-pin going to make a difference to mluke245 who is using a 20-pin power supply. Is GbE going to give you any better bandwidth if you just use it for broadband? No! It does not matter.

You need to make the distinction between what matters to you and what matters to the person you are giving advice to.
 
Steeeeve said:
Saying the best OCing for mATX is not something to write home about. Is it the best for OCing? Probably, but you from what I have read it doesn't boost performance by enough to jusitfy the other faults. Its like some guy saying "I have 100 bucks" and other guy going "I have 101 bucks" and bragging about how much better he is. As for the 20pin thing, you are right, it isn't "better" for anything unless you get a dual rail PSU and then it that case it has been shown to be a little better...nevertheless, it shows a company is keeping up with standards and staying on top of the game. Just like the release of SATA2, most people can't even get up to SATA1 standards but it shows a use of new standards in new times. There really is no excuse for having a board this new without a 24pin mobo. Now if Jetway had the nF4 Ultra chipset with 24pin connector and gigabyte ethernet then I would say it is probably a safe investment because Jetway will have created a project that seperates itself from the pack...thats how you prove yourself...you don't prove yourself by offering something slightly better and then stick on odd standard stuff (20 pin deal)...that tells me this company is not to concerned about this market.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think when you compare everything in perspective, having the best ocing mATX ocing options is quite impressive. Looking at all the options available (quite limited) you'll see that this board is quite a bit away from the pack. Tell me, if Jetway wasn't in innovation or wanted to impress users, then why would they even put in all those ocing options? Considering most mATX boards are just OEM, I believe with them making this effort they know where thier priorities are. If 24 pin isn't neccesary then why use it? Also SATA II May be innovative, but it also adds on costs and price vs performance ratio is NOT worth it to put on a board that's going to be most likely used in a small factor form type environment. Also, I'd like to have gigabit ethernet, but you have to take costs into concern. Innovation costs money, from what I see in the Jetway board they put something together that's economical, meets the needs of the end user, and has options that enthusiasts in our market look at. I believe they made smart decisions and this shows to me that they are a good company investing thier time on useful things rather than stuff such as SATA II which is more hype than anything at this current moment. Stuff may be new and popular, but simply they are NOT worth it at this time.
 
The reason I ask is because you think you would know that the Jetway comes with Gigabyte ethernet..atleast for their agp board :rolleyes:

But anyway, we have said enough about it...you know my opinion I know yours. Just leave it at that.
 
I respect all of your opinions but theres no need to bicker about it :rolleyes:

Anyways right now I'm just weighing my options as I'm in no hurry to purchase anything. mATX, in my opinion, needs to mature a little more before I can become confident enough to look into it.

Again, thank you for sharing your opinions and being very helpful with the knowledge you've shared. Sorry if this thread caused hard feelings :(

Lets just all have a nice big group hug ;) ;)
 
I love you man!!! haha, not really...but yeah, I got no hard feelings...just don't insult my opinion :)

You will be fine with waiting...there is no harm in that. Just don't wait forever..I think better mATX boards are due out in a few months at worst.
 
No hard feelings, but Steeeve, the Jetway Socket 939 mATX does NOT come in any AGP fashion or contain gigabit ethernet, and it's gigaBIT not BYTE =P It's only PCI-X, and this argument isn't just from this thread, just some stuff I've been meaning to say after browsing these boards for a few weeks. Hehe, and yes again, no hard feelings, I just don't want people to think that Jetway is a crap brand or anything because they are indeed a decent company. Hah, I think this is the first thread I've actually been active in.
 
Steeeeve said:
I love you man!!! haha, not really...but yeah, I got no hard feelings...just don't insult my opinion :)

You will be fine with waiting...there is no harm in that. Just don't wait forever..I think better mATX boards are due out in a few months at worst.
Click to expand...

It is not insulting your opinion by pointing out how wrong it is. That is called debunking falsehoods. Of which you can't seem to stop yourself from perpetuating.
 
Let it go Tiny, let it go.

but you just said you are an accountant so its all cool :) Like you said, how can accountants hate each other ;)
 
Jelic said:
No hard feelings, but Steeeve, the Jetway Socket 939 mATX does NOT come in any AGP fashion or contain gigabit ethernet, and it's gigaBIT not BYTE =P It's only PCI-X, and this argument isn't just from this thread, just some stuff I've been meaning to say after browsing these boards for a few weeks. Hehe, and yes again, no hard feelings, I just don't want people to think that Jetway is a crap brand or anything because they are indeed a decent company. Hah, I think this is the first thread I've actually been active in.
Click to expand...

I can spel reel wel.

Look on the Jetway website...they have a socket 939 mATX with gigabyte (sic) ethernet.
www.jetwaycomputer.com

Thats another thing that pisses me off...their website is garbage. How am I supposed to navigate that thing on a slow Dell at work? :D

never-the-less, I think the board is no good, you think it is good...that seems to be the end of it. If I see some reviews otherwise I might chance my mind, however, for now, it is not the best out there for me.
 
Wow, Steeeve I'd be very interested if you could show me the link because the only one that I see that's Socket 939 that has Gigabit ethernet is the full sized ATX board. The micro ATX one from the spec sheets show 10/100. And Gigabit/Gigabyte is not an issue of spelling well but having the knowledge to know the difference. It's easily confused by many people who don't understand the technology very well. A gigabit per second transfer speed is much different from a gigabyte per second transfer speed. Also, I don't think the engineers who design the boards care about the web-site =P So I really think that's a non-issue in quality of product. The web-site is functional and easy to navigate, that's more important then being flashy and all cool looking =P
 
yeah I know the difference but, seriously, have you never said byte instead of bit or vise versa? I probably do it more often then most though. I can't tell you how many times I refer to my internet speed in bytes :rolleyes:

Ethernet LAN
λ Realtek 8100C 10 / 100PCI LAN

You are right...my bad..once again I post mostly at work, looked like 1000 to me
 
Yeah, heh I've said byte instead of bit a few times before ^_^ Darnit, I was hoping that you DID indeed find a mATX mobo on the Jetway site that had gigabit ethernet =P Got my hopes up sigh,
 
It seriously still looks like 1000 on this computer. You would think with all the money the university I work at makes that we could get a computer screen that does strain your retinas to the point of blindness....but they are Dell's :rolleyes:
 
I took a tab bit of a byte out of my itty bitty 5 gigabyte pocket harddrive. Now that byte put me in a bit of a jam because when you byte something a bit you might break it.

Its friday and I am not working haha...thank you taxpayers!
 
Also, I just emailed Jetway to see if they can give me some information on their new board for you guys. I asked about any new boards coming out and if they knew of any reviews or other information that would be helpful. mATX has been a slow developer :(
 
Steeeeve said:
Also, I just emailed Jetway to see if they can give me some information on their new board for you guys. I asked about any new boards coming out and if they knew of any reviews or other information that would be helpful. mATX has been a slow developer :(
Click to expand...

Give us an update when you get any word back. Preferably start a new topic because this one has plummeted grossly off topic :D
 
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