Velocity Micro Problems - Reasonable Next Steps?

[AreEss]

Are you insane? The guy has had a PC for 2 years - it's worked most of that time, and now it doesn't. But he won't send it in like they ask, just stomp his foot when...big surprise...the onsite doesn't work. They could have done better with the IO shields, but this does seem like ASUS had some blame too. You seem to be making this hard on yourself, too, OP.

Uhm, no. The OP clearly stated that it has never functioned properly with regards to playing games. Which presumably is the point of purchasing it.

Secondly, Velocity Micro is very squarely at fault. Sorry, but I did OEMing. If you extend a promise of warranty, you assume liability for replacement of identical or equivalent parts under the terms of the warranty. That's not my take on it, that's the legal take on it. If VM wants to swap the Asus for an equivalent Abit, they're within their rights. But they can not refuse to replace a part because they can't get it.
Which brings me to my other point; what makes VM any better than the guy down the street, if their warranty is no more than the manufacturer's warranty? In fact, the OP could have RMA'd the board himself faster than VM. It is VM's responsibility to ensure availability of replacement parts, independent of the manufacturer, as part of warranty obligations. Period. Not having a replacement or equivalent part is not an acceptable excuse. And forcing the customer to wait for an RMA through the original manufacturer is just bad business and bad planning.
And yes, I am well aware of availability guarantees - or rather, the lack thereof - from nVidia, Asus, AMD, etcetera. It is the builder's responsibility, as part of extending warranty, to ensure availability of parts. If a customer has an AMD Athlon64 3000, and it fails within the warranty period, the law does not care whether or not AMD makes it or the builder can purchase it - the builder's warranty specifically grants them the option of making equivalent replacements at their discretion and based on availability.

Frankly, it sounds like the OP has been given a lot of runaround because of VM's exceptionally poor planning. By repair two, VM should have given the OP an equivalent working part. Key word here, working. If Asus does not include I/O panels, it is a builder's responsibility to either A) have the customer retain theirs, or B) provide a replacement from stock or purchase. If Asus can not provide a working motherboard, then the builder should provide an equivalent replacement. It is not necessarily the builder's responsibility to replace the entire system, only to provide a working system of same or equivalent parts, as within the warranty terms they billed the customer for.

Bluntly, my opinion on the matter is this; VM has given the customer a lot of headache, runaround, and excuses - including here. The customer has made reasonable effort to be accommodating, and VM has failed to take advantage of the opportunity to resolve the matter. At this point, VM needs to just bite the bullet, and send someone out to replace whatever parts are necessary with equivalent or better to provide a working system - that means motherboard, and CPU and memory if necessary - for the OP.

But hey, just my $0.02 from my years of building.

 

[Velocity_Micro]

Bluntly, my opinion on the matter is this; VM has given the customer a lot of headache, runaround, and excuses - including here. The customer has made reasonable effort to be accommodating, and VM has failed to take advantage of the opportunity to resolve the matter. At this point, VM needs to just bite the bullet, and send someone out to replace whatever parts are necessary with equivalent or better to provide a working system - that means motherboard, and CPU and memory if necessary - for the OP.

I appreciate and agree with your point - the customer absolutely deserves a working computer right away, and we have certainly given a lot of headache, runaround, and a few excuses. We have sent our numerous onsite techs and parts, and it's not cutting it. All I want is the chance to get the system back in, put some eyes on the thing, and decide if it is OK except for a minor problem that can be quickly and decisively solved or if it needs to be rebuilt with new parts. I think that's totally in agreement with what you said, except I don't trust an onsite repair contractor to do this extensive a diagnosis/repair job, nor should the OP. We are ready to make this right, and just need his system in our lab to make it happen.

 

[FadedSpark]

I've spoken with Jessica and many others about this order today. We are happy to bring the system back in for another repair, as we have offered to do on many occasions. As we have learned together the hard way, replacing a motherboard can often bring on crashes that must be diagnosed further. Often, onsite techs are not able to do straight diagnostic work on high end machines, and they need to be returned for deeper troubleshooting. We have asked for this system to be returned so we can see what's going on, but the customer has refused to allow us to look at it until he is approved for a new system.

In all fairness, we do thoroughly test ever new computer before it's shipped, and especially every repair. We tested his system completely when it was built, and when it was rebuilt last February 2007. We didn't log another support call until December 2007and have tried to ship motherboards out because the customer didn't want to return the system to us again (understandably) at this point. We seem to be at a standstill. I can't fix it or decide if he should get a new computer until we get it in, and the customer won't send it back until we agree to replace it. What if it's just a software issue or drivers?

I ask everyone to please consider perhaps we are trying everything we can to get a perfect computer to this customer, but there is just no way to ensure every computer is going to be perfect after it goes out. We have sent out replacement parts against our wishes because the customer preferred that, and our worst fears have been realized.

If we receive the system back and can make proper diagnosis and repairs, we will happily do so. If we cannot, we will provide a rebuilt computer in his case using new motherboard, CPU, Memory, PSU, and video. All will be faster than what he has today.

In the end, I regret we have been so frustrating. We try harder than anybody in the business to resolve every problem fairly, completely, and quickly. One failure in a hundred is still failure to us, and we will continue to improve.

Good job stepping it up randy. Exactly what I would have done had I been in your shoes (But hell, had I been in your shoes, I wouldnt have posted it from a 50$ chair, on my barely running desktop )

OP, if you turn this down, I have no sympathy for you. VM Is typically VERY accommodating, and From what Randy is saying (Always nice hearing both sides of the story. thanks for filling in the gaps with dates man ) Then you havent really been THAT bad off... it hasn't been an EVERY day thing, but its still unacceptable from a consumer perspective, and they're dealing with it for you. Take his offer, wait on your essentially BRAND NEW system, and don't look back.

 

[Usquabach]

Despite my earlier comments I am always impressed how a CEO in a company the size of VM can find enough time to post as frequently as he does on this forum. Impressive to say the least. It sounds like the ball is in motion on this one. Good luck!

 

[jmclane]

In all fairness, we do thoroughly test ever new computer before it's shipped, and especially every repair. We tested his system completely when it was built, and when it was rebuilt last February 2007.

I’m not trained in these matters and I’m not sure what these tests can and cannot detect. I have no reason to believe that VM isn't telling the truth when they state that they did the testing. I now know that some manufacturers include the tests results with their machines when they ship, which VM did not, but that would have been a nice validation.

Nonetheless, if the testing that is employed on every built, rebuilt and re-rebuilt machine (as I have), and that same machine (i) doesn't boot up when you press the power button, (ii) crashes within 10 minutes of its first boot, and continuously thereafter while using software as innocuous as a web browser, or sometimes while not using anything at all, (iii) crashes regularly during any game play, and (iv) exhibits loud beeping in lieu of rebooting; then what good is the testing? If the testing is so porous that it can't detect even this most obvious problems, then we as consumers, and I personally, are probably way over-valuing the efficacy of the testing, which is a signature “value added” contribution of the boutique computer maker.

We have sent out replacement parts against our wishes because the customer preferred that, and our worst fears have been realized.

Firstly, just to be clear, I PURCHASED a premium on-site repair service plan. I PURCHASED THAT.

Secondly, despite having the on-site repair plan, I cooperated fully with VM suggestions to return the machine to be rebuilt the first time, AND I cooperated fully with VM suggestions to return the machine to be re-rebuilt a second time.

Thirdly, when the second rebuild completely failed, VM suggested that they send out the new board. I remember their suggestion vividly because it was different from the prior two procedures where I was asked to return the machine. I finally felt that I was getting value for my on-site repair agreement, and I didn’t even have to ask for it.

When that board also failed shortly thereafter, I don't recall whether I was adamant about on-site repair or if it was offered- I just don't remember. However, when the next board arrived DOA I was livid, and from that point forward I have been very adamant that my on-site repair contract be honored.

I object to the notion that this entire odyssey of support has been against VM “wishes”, and I don't recall anyone ever stating that they “feared” the board they were shipping me wouldn’t work. I object even more vehemently to the notion that VM is selling an on-site support contract which they don't believe, in my case, to be adequate. Had I known that, I would have thought twice about making that premium service purchase.

We tested his system completely when it was built, and when it was rebuilt last February 2007. We didn't log another support call until December 2007.

I unfortunately don't have a log of every call I've made to VM. I know this is a good habit, but I never think to do it. I would be surprised if there was this much time between calls, but I won't dispute their finding. I will say this however. I can provide numerous witnesses to corroborate my claim that the machine was absolutely not working during this period.

I had a machine out of the box that would crash when not even being used. I would call VM and describe the problem, we would change this and that, and they would send me on my way. It would crash again, sometimes I would have time to call, and sometimes I wouldn’t. When I did call we would tweak some other things and they would send me on my way. Repeat. I spent hours and hours on the phone with techs at VM before the machine was returned. I sent that machine back, it was “rebuilt and tested thoroughly”.

To VMs credit the rebuilt machine no longer crashed when doing nothing or reading Hotmail. That was a huge step-change improvement. However, it continued to crash whenever I would play games. I got on the phone with tech support for countless more hours until the machine was recalled a second time.

There was no noticeable difference in performance between the first and second recalls. That was demoralizing. What was the point? I can't imagine that I never called VM once after the second recall, but maybe I didn’t. I was exasperated already. The machine still worked for Excel, Outlook, and my iPod (those other core non-gaming functions). It was the most expensive Microsoft Office box ever, but it worked for those applications.

It absolutely did not work for any gaming. When I got it back the second time and tried to play an online game with friends it crashed just like the first recall. But why? It was just rebuilt and rigorously tested, and I was assured after its second rebuild that it would be perfect, just as they assure me now. Maybe it was the game I thought, maybe there was some fundamental incompatibility that I wasn’t aware of. On top of that I was incredibly busy with work and didn’t have time to devote to troubleshooting fixing a machine AGAIN after two other rebuilds.

So I basically gave up. My friends can attest to the fact that they made fun of me for paying $4,500 for a machine that couldn’t play the game their $1,800 machines did. One of my friends paid $300 for a video card, plugged it into a 4 year old machine and played forever and never crashed.

Eventually my friends moved onto another game, which I also tried to install and play and it was the same thing, which at this point implied that it wasn’t the game it was the machine. Even still, I was basically defeated.

Shortly thereafter the machine stopped working altogether- not just games, it wouldn’t boot up. It had to get to this extreme state for me to justify spending the time to getting on VMs ass to get a good box. Not because I didn’t deserve a working product all along, but because I didn’t have time to hold VMs hand to getting me a working product.

Anyway, the VM techs told me my hard disk failed, and since it was a weekend it would be a few days before I could get the replacement. I knew that if I waited I would be in the middle of the work week, and fortunately I wasn’t working that entire weekend, so instead I went and purchased a new drive with my own money. I have so little time for this shit, that when I have those spare moments I’d rather spend the money to get it fixed when I can than go without a machine for weeks because I don't have the time to get to it.

So I went and bought the replacement drive and set out to spend my weekend rebuilding my system and everything on it. Low and behold, the drive was fine and the motherboard was dead. It was a misdiagnosis by VM. Oh well, I call back and they offer to send a new board.

The replacement board they sent had two non-functioning USB ports and whenever you would reboot the machine it would shutdown and beep incessantly. Other than those two problems the machine worked perfectly. I could play games and it wouldn’t crash. Hallelujah! But I was still pissed, because I had gone well over a year with shitty hardware that was supposedly tested and never worked and finally completely dead within a year. Why didnt testing detect that. If the new board could function without crashing, why wasnt the old board detected to be defective?

I was pissed and I didn’t want a motherboard with bad USB ports that couldn’t reboot even if it could play games. I wanted a machine that could play games, had all of its functioning USB ports and would reboot. So I asked that they send a replacement board. That was the one that was DOA that made me livid.

So I continued on with the bad USB board contemplating whether I should bring suit against VM or not. All the while I could play games, but then within less than 2 months that board died too. Completely dead wouldn’t reboot.

So when HappyJack says

Are you insane? The guy has had a PC for 2 years - it's worked most of that time

He is absolutely incorrect. It worked (with bad USB and no rebooting) for less than 2 months. Other than that it has been a disaster. No offense HappyJack, but it just hasn’t worked.

We are happy to bring the system back in for another repair.

You're "happy to do this"? You're "happy to"? Seriously? It reads as if you want praise for some grand jesture. You don't get extra credit for doing the absolute minimum required operation. Why should it matter if you are happy to do it or not. It's about what you are supposed to do and what you have done and what you will do.

This is what I struggle with and if you look at the original post this was my question to this community. Is it reasonable for me to accommodate yet another rebuild? After the machine being shipped defective, after a rebuild, after a re-rebuild, after one, two and now three inoperable replacement motherboards, on what evidence should I have any belief that the time and effort to accommodate yet another rebuild is not a complete waste? If the same testing of the original build, the rebuild, and the re-rebuild has gotten me to this point why would I have any faith that yet more of the same promised testing is going to result in anything that is any different?

Some of the posters here have faulted me for letting it go on this long-- for not being more forceful in demanding redress earlier. Why would I now, after so many more problems, be just as accommodating? WHY SHOULDN’T VELOCITY MICRO MAKE AN ACCOMODATION TO ME FOR ONCE? Randy’s post offers nothing more than the letter of the warranty agreement. If you presume they have breached no other covenants, which I wouldnt at this time presume, he’s not accommodating anything more than he is absolutely mandated to accommodate by the agreement. I don't see how Omega can claim that he's "stepped it up."

They’ve had my money for a defective machine for over 2 years. They’ve had countless chances to rectify the situation and it has been a failure at every turn. Three weeks ago I asked that they give me my money back or build me a new machine. I just can't believe that those are unreasonable requests. Since then another board has gone bad.

Their tech just left. In addition to no I/O shield the motherboard they installed on Saturday had a defective battery so it was losing about 10 minutes each hour off the clock. Two of the rear USB ports are dead- the tech couldn’t figure out how to get them to work either. Some of them work, but there is an NA IRQ assignment on the boot screen, so it's kind of a mystery. The machine crashed after 10 minutes of game play. So it goes.

Maybe I should do a poll. I'm still not positive about what my next step should be.

P.S. When I realized that this post was going to become unbearably long in clarifying the record, I decided to type it in Word. It’s fortunate that I did. As I clicked on the thread to make this post the machine spontaneously rebooted. This may be the first spontaneous reboot using a browser since the original build. After it booted back up I tried to open the Word file and it again spontaneously rebooted. Fortunately, I was able to get the file off the machine with a USB drive before it crashed a third time.

 

[HappyJack]

All I want is the chance to get the system back in, put some eyes on the thing, and decide if it is OK except for a minor problem that can be quickly and decisively solved or if it needs to be rebuilt with new parts.

I'm holding off on the insanity judgement. Could go either way after your last post...

It looks to me from this quote like VM is offering to give you the rebuilt system you seem to be fighting so hard for, but ya didn't once mention that in your last post. Is that what you want, or just dragging 'em through the mud for kicks first?

Also, I think onsite is fine for a simple video card or hard drive swap, but I'd be damned if I'd want a rental tech doing a rebuild for me, and changing out the mobo can easily screw up the OS while your at it.

 

[Deleted member 133315]

We are ready to make this right, and just need his system in our lab to make it happen.

What else can be said to this ? nothing, computers mess up, hardware breaksdown, the dude got a replaced pc and never logged a complaint or fault on it for 1 year, yet he says it was always faulty but did nothing for about 1 year ???

Randy is willing to make his problems go away but yet the OP doesnt want to ship the pc back to him unless he gets a guarantee of a new pc beforehand, huh, am I missing something ? Randy is going out of his way to look at the dudes problem personally but yet the dude doesnt want to return his pc to him, WTF.

I dont see why VM is in the wrong here at all, because if the OP was genuinely upset and pissed off that his pc was broken since day one then he wouldnt of waited 1 year to log a fault on it after he got a replacement, shit dont fly with me.

Either send the rig back or keep it, VM are offering him a cure but he is reluctant to take it, weird ass situation if you ask me...

I have seen Randy on these boards fix nearly every single VM problem thread, so if he says it WILL get fixed then rest assured it will, but I really cant see why the OP is so reluctant to hand back the rig.

maybe just maybe the damage happened at the OP's residence ? bad electricity etc ??? so maybe VM are justified by saying it left their factory working on more than one occassion.

In anycase, I hope that it gets solved soon which with Randy on the case it undoubtedly will.

I use to work for an oem a good few years back and the amount of rigs that came into the shop due to supposed "hardware" problems that were caused by shitty software, warez, spyware, viri and most of all, people who dont know much about computers destroying the OS slowly over a period of time by installing the entire internet on their pc or deleting system files or using the all mighty impressive 1 click registry fix programs that delete half of your registry because it says you have a problem is un-fkin-believable, so VM have every right to make sure that the dudes rig is genuinely fucked up hardware wise before they pony up for a complete brand new FASTER replacement.

 

[Deleted member 133315]

Three weeks ago I asked that they give me my money back or build me a new machine.

2 years later you ask for your cash back

at most that should of been done within the first 6 months and you would be stretching it if it was 6months to 1 year, but to ask 2 years later for your cash back, dude where i come from thats called, trying to pull a fast one or takin the piss.

I have the asus a8n board aswell and on the boot screen half of my stuff has NA for irq, that doesnt matter, as they still work, as windows assigns irq's if your bios is set to auto setup irq's which in most cases it will be.

I am not saying you have not got a genuine hardware fault, but its just weird the way you have went about things.

I do know that those boards are troublesome and I have went threw 2 or 3 of them, but although they were a pain, only one caused me uber problems, the rest well they just took a shit and this one I am using now has been on the go for 2+ years and it has went threw everything I have thrown at it and more, I find that this particular board, if i end up having a problem with it, clear the cmos and keep it like that for 30 minutes and that fixes everything, within reason that is, but this a8n sli deluxe hasnt caused me 1 problem that couldnt be attributed to software, but out of 3 or 4 boards I got one that works perfect, so I do know that they can be a pain, so i aint gunna say that you havent got a genuine fault as with these boards it is very possible that you have, but leaving it 2+ years to ask for your cash back is plain wrong, no matter how you try and get your point across.

also, piece of advice, get an electrician in and get them to test your wall sockets, as I had a faulty wall socket that fried thousands of pounds worth of shit, and yet the main breakers in the house didnt trip, the ups didnt trip and the surge protectors did shit, everything failed, not because they were faulty but because it was a loose wire inside the socket and was giving out bad power but not enough for the security to kick in, but the bad power got through to my psu and messed them up and killed numerous mobos, vid cards harddrives and ended up making one of my cpus look like it had been overclocked for a year and left a nice burn mark on the botom of it, although the cpu still worked, this happened over a period of time and not all in one go, so it is VERY possible that you might have something similar, in the end I got an sparkie to check it out and he fried himself in the process, all because of 1 loose wire which was touching another wire or a metal surface inside the actual wall socket, the only warning I ever got looking back on it now was that for some reason, in everest, i got a warning on every single one of my psu's about the temp being to high

 

[magoo]

Boys, I think its time to shake hands and make up.

No one really knows the pain here, on both sides.

But, the offer has been made to make this right, repetative or not.

I'd send it in, and stand firm; if the machine dumps in Richmond or at your house, you get a new one; just like Mr. Copeland said.

Just do it.

 

[solaris54]

Wow...........$4500.00 computer?

Just my opinion but I would trust sending the computer back to VM more than letting these independent computer techs work on it.
I would be very frustrated but now you have the CEO in on this so now there should be no more excuses. I would try it one more time just for your sanity........

 

[aethelwulf]

I can understand why you wouldn't want to send it back to VM. They've let you down twice in this regard. I also believe, however, that Randy will personally see that it does get fixed. When you send it to them, ask them install whatever games you play and test those games specifically. Make an agreement with Randy, and give him one last chance to fix THIS computer before you ask for a new one. Despite what's happened in the past, I think this is the best deal you can possibly hope to get. I also think that it's not all that bad considering the circumstances. You deserve a working computer for the money you spent, but that won't happen unless you make this concession IMHO. I wish you the best of luck and truly hope that you get a good, working computer out of this.

 

[AaronP]

1 Year after the fact? I call Shens, no one sits on a non-working $4,500 PC for a year, especially when it's under warranty.

 

[RangerSVT]

1 Year after the fact? I call Shens, no one sits on a non-working $4,500 PC for a year, especially when it's under warranty.

I would. Busy people get busy, you should get out more often if this is hard for you to believe.

 

[jmclane]

piece of advice, get an electrician in and get them to test your wall sockets

Upon your suggestion I hired an electrician to come out today to test the circuit. It tested at 119 volts and was pretty consistent around the house and into and out of the surge protector. It varied by maybe 0.1 volts at any one location. The electrician said that this was well within the range of acceptability, which was also confirmed by local IT staff.

 

[jmclane]

1 Year after the fact? I call Shens, no one sits on a non-working $4,500 PC for a year, especially when it's under warranty.

If by shenanigans you're intimating that I'm somehow lying you are way off base.

Firstly, when the re-rebuilt machine (yes it has already been built, built again, and built again) stopped functioning completely and I called VM to report the problem, they mentioned that I hadnt logged a call since February. I was incredibly surprised and noted that the machine never worked for gaming, but I didnt have any evidence to the contrary, and there was no point in disputing the claim anyway. They fact was that the machine was completely inoperable and is even now still under the three year extended warranty that I purchased.

I'm not arguing that the machine stopped working in February because I'm trying to contrive some warranty claim- it's still under warranty. I outlined the complete series of problems to point out the extraordinary problems that I've had with this machine, and the extraordinary amount of my time spent working on it and the extraordinary amount of downtime I've experienced.

Secondly, if you buy a new machine that's basically DOA and you go through weeks of crashing and tech support calls and send it back, and then go through the same thing again after you get the rebuild, and then with the re-rebuild you experience the EXACT SAME PROBLEMS, wouldnt you be just a little unmotivated to go through the exact same futile process a third time.

Instead of doing that I just gave up and assumed it was a software incompatibility. I used it for Office and web. Then within 10 months of the re-rebuild the machine died completely. And then a new motherboard came and the machine worked fine for gaming. That was proof to me that all of the previous problems had been hardware failures related to the bad board that were not discovered during their extensive testing. Unfortunately, the new board wouldnt reboot, had bad USB, and died within 2 months.

Why don't we get VM to post the service records for the two depot rebuilds. I actually asked for it after the first rebuild, and when I sent the machine back for the second rebuild I again, in writing, asked for a complete description of the service they applied. Neither were ever supplied. I have no idea what they even did to the machine the second time (absolutely no change in performance), and had no assurance that I wasn't just spinning my wheels.

At least four different techs have physically inspected the machine installing new boards since December. If there is any suggestion whatsoever that I have somehow deliberately sabotaged the system as you imply I hope that VM will post it here. There won't be because I havent. I want as little to do with the inner workings of a computer as possible, which is why I paid so much for a VM machine to begin with.

There is absolutely no spyware or viruses on the machine. I am very deliberate about checking each regularly. I dont use any crapware from the net. I use a browser, and Office, and Money, and iTunes, and when it worked for a couple months I played a couple games. Moreover, the fact that the first replacement board (the one after the re-rebuild stopped working) worked reasonably well before dying, and very differently from the past and future boards should imply that there is no systemic non-fundamental software issue. It's hardware related dude.

 

[Nenu]

1 Year after the fact? I call Shens, no one sits on a non-working $4,500 PC for a year, especially when it's under warranty.

We're all pretty clear on what has happened, I feel for the OP.
VM is also clear on the issue too so theres little point in speculation.

 

[shaunh20]

I've been down this road myself with my Falcon Northwest and ended up just giving up and buying a new computer. I will not buy another PC or peripheral from Falcon Northwest and I continuously tell folks about my story wherever I go, both in the real world and in the virtual world.

Here's what it boils down to IMO: sure maybe VM doesn't have to build this guy a new PC or really do anything but continue to try to repair his immediate issue but in the long run it would probably be far more in VM's favor to go ahead and build him a new PC using comparable components. I can't see it would cost VM all that much considering it's a 2 year old machine and in the world of PC's that is an eternity.

The simple fact is that stories like these can cause 10,15,20 or 25 other people who read it to steer clear of that vendor, justifiably or not. If VM is smart they will build him a new, comparable machine and get GOOD word of mouth going forward, not a horror story.

And this isn't even to mention it may end up costing them LESS money in the long run than continuing to repair, replace, ship and pay offsite support if problems continue. Just my two cents worth.

 

[jkalland]

Guys...give up the "you didn't call until now?" crap.

He bought a 3 year warranty. If within those 3 years, he gets busy...that's his perogative. I for one am in college, have a fiance, and work 45-50 hours a week 1 hour from my house and have a mother currently in the hospital. Shit happens...that's not an excuse for the wretched service he's recieved.

I used to work as a PC Tech for Circuit City, so I've played the OEM game before doing warranty work on extended warranties such as this. I've been on hold with HP for 2 hours to replace a harddrive in a laptop worth only about $400...I've put new LCD screens in vintage thinkpads simply because I found the part cheaper than the cost of a replacement. Parts can be found if the service folks are willing to look. We actually had a business account that let us overnight parts from newEgg or somewhere similar if the part wasn't available through our normal chanels, and then if not covered within the warranty, the bill was later passed to the customer.

But...and here's the kicker...if we couldn't find a part or otherwise fix a system...a new system was sent back home with the customer. The thing VM is doing so terribly wrong is that they are wanting to test everything on this poor guy's dollar. The proper course of action is to ship the guy a new machine, and then test his once he has the new one, and take appropriate action to reclaim any funds possible from it...be it re-using the good parts as warranty replacements or selling them out. At the very least, a loaner system should be sent out...we used to pull display models for loaners at CC so long as the customer left us a credit card # and signed the appropriate paperwork.


I find it hard to believe that a company like Circuit City that hires a 18 year old with nothing more than a high school diploma and pays him $10.75 an hour can one up a so called 'boutique' in the support department, but it appears that that is exactly what has transpired.


VM should be ashamed of this and the dozens of similar stories on RR about systems being DOA, shipping with incorrect hardware, being built in a hurry to the extent that cards aren't seated properly and packaging is left on them, and that they have a parts department that they can seemingly fit in a sock drawer if they have all the inventory issues they have.

Lastly: at this point the bare minimum course of action should be to have a field tech confirm the status of the system and then have them either arrange a replacemtn over the phone, or have THEM ship it back to VM..the customer shouldn't have to lift a finger once they purchase a premium warranty...that's why they pay for them.


jmclane...should you ever get this resolved and wish to purchase a custom machine, I will build you one free of any labor charge and ship it to you, from which point I presume Geek Squad or FireDog could serve you better than what we've seen here, because if VM won't step up to the plate [send it back for inspection my ass] someone should.

 

[AaronP]

I hope the OP's issues get resolved, he did pay for the Warranty so he is more than entitled to it. But looking at this from my POV (which is 3rd party) it looks to me like Details are missing. $4,500 for a house hold computer is a rather large investment. I can understand maybe 1-2 months and at most 6 assuming the person left the country/moved because I have heard of that happening but almost a full year? Did you put it in the closet and forget about it? That just looks suspicious to me.

Side Note: I wish everyone would keep in mind that no matter how good a company is, what their passed records show, even if they have a 99% Postive reseller rating someone some where is going to get a 'lemon' system, it's inevitable. Unfortunately it looks like the OP was the unlucky person to get said lemon. Seeing this thread has to make you wonder though, how many people out there have actually had issues with VM machines, let alone their support? What's the % of people that AVA, Puget, Maingear, or even Alienware. Would those % numbers be similar?

For anyone's reference I've been building, and supporting computers for 3 years straight, I've made ok living off of it. I've seen people who I've only heard from because they have questions and I've heard from people who just can't seem to catch a break to save their lives, and sometimes the later person has had a previous system from the same manufacture that was utterly flawless. To me seeing VM actively participate in this thread gives me a lot more confidence in VM than if I'd just heard a person complain and then VM fight with said person instead of willingly accepting blame and trying to resolve said issue in what appears the be the best possible way.

P.S. Saying you're a tech doesn't really give you any credibility, if I've learned anything in the past 3 years it's that you don't know as much as you think you do until you have a job dedicated to fixing computers. And being a "tech" doesn't mean crap. Some stores have "Techs" and all they know is what the piece of paper in front of them says. Anyone who's worked professionally in IT can back me up on that.

 

[BrinNutz]

Guys...give up the "you didn't call until now?" crap.

He bought a 3 year warranty. If within those 3 years, he gets busy...that's his perogative. I for one am in college, have a fiance, and work 45-50 hours a week 1 hour from my house and have a mother currently in the hospital. Shit happens...that's not an excuse for the wretched service he's recieved.

I used to work as a PC Tech for Circuit City, so I've played the OEM game before doing warranty work on extended warranties such as this. I've been on hold with HP for 2 hours to replace a harddrive in a laptop worth only about $400...I've put new LCD screens in vintage thinkpads simply because I found the part cheaper than the cost of a replacement. Parts can be found if the service folks are willing to look. We actually had a business account that let us overnight parts from newEgg or somewhere similar if the part wasn't available through our normal chanels, and then if not covered within the warranty, the bill was later passed to the customer.

But...and here's the kicker...if we couldn't find a part or otherwise fix a system...a new system was sent back home with the customer. The thing VM is doing so terribly wrong is that they are wanting to test everything on this poor guy's dollar. The proper course of action is to ship the guy a new machine, and then test his once he has the new one, and take appropriate action to reclaim any funds possible from it...be it re-using the good parts as warranty replacements or selling them out. At the very least, a loaner system should be sent out...we used to pull display models for loaners at CC so long as the customer left us a credit card # and signed the appropriate paperwork.


I find it hard to believe that a company like Circuit City that hires a 18 year old with nothing more than a high school diploma and pays him $10.75 an hour can one up a so called 'boutique' in the support department, but it appears that that is exactly what has transpired.


VM should be ashamed of this and the dozens of similar stories on RR about systems being DOA, shipping with incorrect hardware, being built in a hurry to the extent that cards aren't seated properly and packaging is left on them, and that they have a parts department that they can seemingly fit in a sock drawer if they have all the inventory issues they have.

Lastly: at this point the bare minimum course of action should be to have a field tech confirm the status of the system and then have them either arrange a replacemtn over the phone, or have THEM ship it back to VM..the customer shouldn't have to lift a finger once they purchase a premium warranty...that's why they pay for them.


jmclane...should you ever get this resolved and wish to purchase a custom machine, I will build you one free of any labor charge and ship it to you, from which point I presume Geek Squad or FireDog could serve you better than what we've seen here, because if VM won't step up to the plate [send it back for inspection my ass] someone should.

Well, I agree with this fella. For what the guy paid, I'm pretty sure VM could build a Quad Core with SLI 8800GTX's, 4gb of 1066 RAM, a nice oc'ing mobo, and probably 2 x 500gb HD's and still be netting a profit I bet since they get parts cheaper than we can. And give me another 3 year warranty.

Seriously, I've seen the deals, and I know y'all get parts cheaper. Just build the guy a new system, then you can write it off on your taxes maybe. Because, as far as I can tell, a 2-year old "Gaming" System, won't play Crysis, well, at least not a playable framerates, because I have one, and it wouldn't play some games maxed out like it should have, and I had half of what he paid insested, buying parts at full retail, some on the release date ($600 GPU back then)

I've been down this road myself with my Falcon Northwest and ended up just giving up and buying a new computer. I will not buy another PC or peripheral from Falcon Northwest and I continuously tell folks about my story wherever I go, both in the real world and in the virtual world.

Here's what it boils down to IMO: sure maybe VM doesn't have to build this guy a new PC or really do anything but continue to try to repair his immediate issue but in the long run it would probably be far more in VM's favor to go ahead and build him a new PC using comparable components. I can't see it would cost VM all that much considering it's a 2 year old machine and in the world of PC's that is an eternity.

The simple fact is that stories like these can cause 10,15,20 or 25 other people who read it to steer clear of that vendor, justifiably or not. If VM is smart they will build him a new, comparable machine and get GOOD word of mouth going forward, not a horror story.

And this isn't even to mention it may end up costing them LESS money in the long run than continuing to repair, replace, ship and pay offsite support if problems continue. Just my two cents worth.

Sorry VM, but I've read one to many bad threads about you guys. Granted, that you/we hear more bad then good from the consumers, it still pains me that you're just following the "warranty" agreement at this point. For all the wasted time you've put this guy through, and all the useless sitting around of a $4500 computer. Come on, just give the guy a break, he paid you and assload of money, at least show the consumers out there that you're worthy of giving that large sum of money to.

The guy even paid over $250 of his own money to get his power outlets checked, just in case, albeit at another members suggestion, but still. The OP seems to have been willing to solve the problem if he did this. But I think he deserves a new rig, so he can finally play his friends in games.

 

[zpackrat]

I appreciate and agree with your point - the customer absolutely deserves a working computer right away, and we have certainly given a lot of headache, runaround, and a few excuses. We have sent our numerous onsite techs and parts, and it's not cutting it. All I want is the chance to get the system back in, put some eyes on the thing, and decide if it is OK except for a minor problem that can be quickly and decisively solved or if it needs to be rebuilt with new parts. I think that's totally in agreement with what you said, except I don't trust an onsite repair contractor to do this extensive a diagnosis/repair job, nor should the OP. We are ready to make this right, and just need his system in our lab to make it happen.

From what I've read you have had his system twice for repairs, so that makes 3 times your technicians have tested his system and signed off on it being OK when in fact it has never been OK. At this point it's about customer satisfaction and making right what has never been since this product was purchased. VM should state privately or publicly that you will replace his system with a new comparable system for ALL OF HIS TROUBLES AND EFFORTS for working with VM over the last 24 months to get this right. It's like a car in that after having the same thing repaired over and over you don't trust it to take a trip in, you wind up trading that POS car for a different brand all the while telling your friends and family about the POS car that you once owned.

Randy, do what's right and give this guy a new system and help save your reputation. As it stands now reading about this guys issues with your system and inability to make things right I would in no way recommend VM to anyone. On the other hand a show of good faith and customer service go a long way.

Personally I would take nothing less than my money back or a new machine, otherwise I would take VM to Small Claims court for not fulfilling their end of the purchase and have a judge rule on this. i wonder who would win given the amount of documentation the OP has on this matter?
here are some of the $ limits across the country
http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/ADF1FA1B-C67D-4B95-AD615532C3AE0862/104/308/273/ART/

 

[Deleted member 133315]

cool, glad to see that it was'nt caused by faulty socket, you were pretty quick off the mark getting it tested also unlike me, but the prudential sorted it out for me in the end and replaced one of the rigs, but I had to shell out a good 2k or so before hand on parts for the other rigs, but it is good to see that the testing came back good

Upon your suggestion I hired an electrician to come out today to test the circuit. It tested at 119 volts and was pretty consistent around the house and into and out of the surge protector. It varied by maybe 0.1 volts at any one location. The electrician said that this was well within the range of acceptability, which was also confirmed by local IT staff.

 

[Anh N.]

I just don't understand why VM just won't bite the bullet and send the poor guy a new one. Yes, they will lose money on this deal. However, a customer who spent 4k+ is one you want to keep, who most likely to buy for his family same kinda computer and/or recommend to his friends who most likely could afford the same. Plus, they are not doing anything more than honoring their warranty. The earlier person commented about Honda would not replace your car after 2 yrs is dead wrong. If after multiple fixes during warranty period, and problems are still not resolved, most car manufacture will replace the car for you wether it's Honda/Toyota/Mazda/Ford, etc...

 

[Velocity_Micro]

I wish to reiterate that I HAVE offered to build a new computer for the OP, and am awaiting him to send his box in.

 

[SR45]

What does Microsoft have to do with your BIOS update? And why couldn't you go to the mainboard manufacturer's site and get the BIOS update?

Tried another bios update, never worked.


VM informed me that the special bios that they have installed would probably allow activation of windows to another system and Microsoft says no to that.

 

[Deleted member 133315]

I wish to reiterate that I HAVE offered to build a new computer for the OP, and am awaiting him to send his box in.

Game, Set & Match to VM.

 

[shaunh20]

Game, Set & Match to VM.

Not really, from how I read VM's offer, they want him to send in his PC for diagnostics, to see if they can fix it and THEN if they can't fix the issue they will send him a new PC. Perhaps I misunderstood it. If so, then it appears the OP has misunderstood it as well.

VM - are you saying that if he sends in his current PC that you will simply get it, build him a new PC of equal or better nature and send it back to him? Or is his getting a newly built PC conditional upon the nature of the issues on his old one? Huge difference there.

 

[Deleted member 133315]

Oh, so this isnt an offer of, " Send the PC back and we will dump it and build you a new one with new parts and newer tech" ?

I did read the earlier posts where it was send your pc back and we will check it out, but with Randy's last post I thought their had maybe been contact and that the Op was told he was getting a new rig, but just had to send his back first.

ahwell my bad if I got things confused.

 

[shaunh20]

Oh, so this isnt an offer of, " Send the PC back and we will dump it and build you a new one with new parts and newer tech" ?

I did read the earlier posts where it was send your pc back and we will check it out, but with Randy's last post I thought their had maybe been contact and that the Op was told he was getting a new rig, but just had to send his back first.

ahwell my bad if I got things confused.

Yeah, maybe you're right, I guess that's why I asked VM to clarify. Perhaps they have extended a new, better offer that is not conditional to him and that simply hasn't been brought to light in this thread. Until we hear about that though we all must assume that VM's last post is referring to his earlier, conditional offer, which I can see why the OP wouldn't really want to submit to, considering he's been down that road before.

 

[zpackrat]

I wish to reiterate that I HAVE offered to build a new computer for the OP, and am awaiting him to send his box in.

Actually you have not offered to straight up replace his system,

Originally Posted by Velocity_Micro
I appreciate and agree with your point - the customer absolutely deserves a working computer right away, and we have certainly given a lot of headache, runaround, and a few excuses. We have sent our numerous onsite techs and parts, and it's not cutting it. All I want is the chance to get the system back in, put some eyes on the thing, and decide if it is OK except for a minor problem that can be quickly and decisively solved or if it needs to be rebuilt with new parts. I think that's totally in agreement with what you said, except I don't trust an onsite repair contractor to do this extensive a diagnosis/repair job, nor should the OP. We are ready to make this right, and just need his system in our lab to make it happen.

Your last statement was more cat and mouse, your offering to try and fix a 2 year old system that you have failed to fix twice in addition to the on site visits the OP has had. So if you were to say "send it back and we'll send you a NEW system" then OK, but no more of your technicians need to look at it BS. They have failed three times already, once when it was shipped new and twice after. Add to that the fact that for 2 years the OP has not had a fully functioning system, but has had much frustration (and patience) and deserves a new system that should have been offered up long ago.

 

[shaunh20]

Actually you have not offered to straight up replace his system,

Your last statement was more cat and mouse, your offering to try and fix a 2 year old system that you have failed to fix twice in addition to the on site visits the OP has had. So if you were to say "send it back and we'll send you a NEW system" then OK, but no more of your technicians need to look at it BS. They have failed three times already, once when it was shipped new and twice after. Add to that the fact that for 2 years the OP has not had a fully functioning system, but has had much frustration (and patience) and deserves a new system that should have been offered up long ago.

Not to mention I seriously doubt with all these issues that the OP has a "minor problem". It's no doubt a combination of issues at this point, nothing very 'easily' fixable.

 

[jmclane]

$4,500 for a house hold computer is a rather large investment. I can understand maybe 1-2 months and at most 6 assuming the person left the country/moved because I have heard of that happening but almost a full year?

The first build crashed randomly with no software running but a browser. The first rebuild fixed that problem. I don't know what they did, but that problem was fixed. Unfortunately, it still constantly crashed during game play, and was sent back for a second rebuild.

The second rebuild was just like the first. I'm not sure what they did to it. The computer was stable for Office, Money, Web, iTunes, but it crashed during any gaming. So it wasn't in the closet, I just stopped playing games because I didnt make time for continued support calls or to send it back a third time.

At first I assumed it was the game ("Guild Wars") that was causing the crash because it had been "rebuilt and tested" by VM. Then friends switched to DDO Online and I tried that too, and it still crashed, so I figured it was hardware. Shortly thereafter the motherboard died altogether so it was kind of a moot point.

In fairness I've rounded up to $4,500 because I couldn't remember exactly what I paid. Turns out it was $4,296, which in fairness included shipping, warranty, and speakers. So the actual rig was $3,885.

 

[jmclane]

I wish to reiterate that I HAVE offered to build a new computer for the OP, and am awaiting him to send his box in.

My understanding of the offer is that they will honor only the Warranty. VM will pay to return the machine, troubleshoot the failures, correct them if possible, and if not rebuild the system with the existing case with a combination of parts that may include a new Mobo, CPU, RAM, Video, and PSU of equal or better quality.

My reservations are that:

1 - I have to go without a machine for almost 3 weeks if the previous recalls are any indication
2 - The previous build and two recalls were failures and I have no confidence in the testing such that the machine could test fine as it's done before, get it back and I have the same problems all over again, despite another incredible waste of my time
3 - It's annoying and time consuming to back everything up and make sure I have everything off the box I need in case it's wiped. I've done this twice already and it was a waste of my time. I'm happy to do it but I want absolute certainty that it's not time wasted.

(1) is becoming less of an issue because the existing mobo has crashed twice outside of gaming, has a BIOS clock that wasnt fixed with the new battery (not sure what else can cause it to lose time), and has 2 dead USB ports. It's acting very similar to the first replacement board after the second rebuild (clock issue is new though), and if that's the case it will be dead within 2 months I suspect.

I'm frustrated enough that I thought it was a reasonable accommodation for VM to just provide a similar quality machine, send it to me, let me move everything over and make sure I have what I need and that it is working properly, and then I will return the defective box. If I dont return the defective box within some time frame (say 1-2 weeks) I've authorized them to charge my CC for the new box.

I've also offered to just get a commitment for a refund, I'd buy a new box, move everything over, and send them the old one, and then when they receive it issue the refund.

Neither offer seemed unreasonable to me given the issues to date, but VM has declined. Granted, both of my offers are beyond the Warranty Agreement, but I kind of feel like I deserve something beyond the minimum given the extraordinary problems. Maybe my frustration is clouding my judgment.

 

[magoo]

Wow.
Add to that the 170 dollar electrician bill!!

Strict interpretation of the warranty, you are correct. Return it in working condition with equal or better parts. You paid a bocoup of money for that computer, and it should have run GuildWars around in circles.

At this point I think I'd go to BestBuy and get me a 300 dollar e-machine to use for everyday stuff, and send that box back to VM and just hope for the best; and hope VM's conscience tells them to do the right thing.

Please keep us updated on what happens.

 

[AndonSage]

At this point I think I'd go to BestBuy and get me a 300 dollar e-machine to use for everyday stuff, and send that box back to VM and just hope for the best; and hope VM's conscience tells them to do the right thing.

That makes sense, especially if it can be returned within 30 days like most Best Buy stuff.

 

[Uberbob102000]

I say that VM should just suck it up and build him a brand new computer. It would help them look good in the eyes of the OP but the rest of the forum. It might be cheaper with all the man hours they're spending to fail at fixing it.

 

[jkalland]

HAHAHA.

I just read that you have the lifetime upgrade plan to, for cleaning, maintenance, discounted upgrades and tuning.

 

[BrinNutz]

No offense OP, but VM can build you, like I said in my previous post..

An Intel Quad Core CPU, 8800GTX (Hell, at this point, the 9800GTX), 4gb of 1066mhz DDR2 Ram, a nice mobo, an X-FI sound card, about wouldn't probably lose money at this point.

But wow, I can't believe how expensive a system like that cost you, let alone all the problems. VM made a good amount of profit on you. With the amount they sell, I think they should take the hit, send you a new system with a paid return label attached for you to put your system in, and send back once it's arrived. And to ensure you'd ship it back, they'd obviously have an agreement where if the system isn't shipped by a certain date (verified by the tracking info), they would charge you for the system, but I doubt that parts going to happen. =)

 

[michael.pa2]

At this point,I don't see what the OP has to lose by sending the computer back,if VM is paying for it.The thing sounds pretty much useless right now anyway.See what they can do with it,in a reasonable amount of time,if they fail to fix it I'd say you have grounds for legal action.This isn't doing their already tarnished reputation much good,it would be in their own best interest to make things right in this case.

 

[lovemyPC]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this thread anymore. OP has complained, VM has responded, and the entire community has weighed in on it. I know it may be the popular thing now to howl for VM to build this guy a new computer with all new parts and send him on a cruise, etc, but a couple things to keep in mind:1. both parties agreed to the warranty - abiding by its conditions now is what should be happening2. OP - no offense, but it seems like you are mostly on here now to churn up negativity to VM. Looks like VM has offered on several occasions to work with you and yet you are still on here complaining, Why don't you come back and post after VM has had a chance to make good on their offer.3. Finally - VM is the only company you will see on here discussing the inner workings of their policies with 3rd parties who really have no business in this. I don't see any other companies doing their customer service to a GReek chorus. I think VM has shown much restraint and professionalism by not getting into the details - which could be unflattering to OP. No matter we're really only getting one side of the story.4. at this point (second finally) - this thread is totally boring (I know I know - then stop coming). Can we get back to actually talking about computers instead of weighing in on what should be a pretty much private matter between two parties we have nothing to do with.

OP - let VM do their job and come back when it's finished. I really don't see any point for you continuing to take this onto the forums unless it's just to stir things up.



Looking forward to hearing what happens.