Vega Rumors

[razor1]

Using that source for simple hardware figures as they have a giant table. Nothing too unreasonable about that. I wasn't discussing mining hash rate, but there have been hints from reputable people for some time they are rather strong and not wholly unexpected given the hardware capabilities.

As for the rumored performance of the tweaktown leak, I'm taking that with a grain of salt still. Taken at face value my comparison seems valid as that's precisely what the leak shows. Nothing too complicated about that. More likely new features were enabled and drivers tuned since FE released. RX would have released earlier otherwise, unless inventory was the entire reason for the delay. So far we've seen a lot of comparisons about minimum framerates and cards compared based on cost. That in no way invalidates the possibility they may be significantly faster in average and maximum framerates.

The problem is the hardware capabilities you mentioned which are about SHA and ASE have nothing to do with the hashrates that were mentioned. The hashrates that were mentioned is for Eth mining, Eth doesn't use those types of algorithms. SHA and ASE != dagger hasimoto

I called the Polaris release correctly, async issue correctly, and a year later haven't seen anything inaccurate about my claims. Only odd one being a high end Polaris model that never materialized. I follow the market for investment purposes and being consistently wrong isn't a great strategy. Consequently I'm seeing several hundred percent gains yearly. If any prospective consumer wants an even remotely educated opinion from reading forums, this is not the place to do it. The general understanding of engineering and how electronics function is far too limited, falling to individuals that only understand what is directly in front of them with no ability to anticipate the effects of changing the system. That and a bunch of viral marketers that probably put a bunch of heat on their boss following the whole async debacle.

what 40% increase in performance due to Async compute? Which in reality is only 5%?

What does investment have to do with what we are talking about right now. The only reason AMD stocks are up is because of speculation based on Ryzen, and rightfully so, it has nothing to do with RTG ATM.

 

[Hameeeedo]

As for the rumored performance of the tweaktown leak, I'm taking that with a grain of salt still. Taken at face value my comparison seems valid as that's precisely what the leak shows. Nothing too complicated about that.

This is AMD's Doom slide :
Vega 64 is 12% faster than 1080 using avg fps, and 9% faster using min fps. Remember this is AMD's best case. In tweaktown's rumor you have the Vega 56 like 20% than a 1070, an obvious BS considering AMD's own numbers.

 

[Armenius]

ATI Vega == next Duke Nukem Forever, I called it.

Well DNF actually exists while ATi doesn't exist, so...

 

[Ieldra]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

 

[darrpara]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

TL;DR:
Magic Drivers will save AMD

 

[razor1]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

LOL those 78 points he got from that post probably all that's left of AMD fanboys on r/AMD!

WTF did he say AMD is intentionally letting nV keep the performance crown lol. Great they are such a generous company that gives away cards and lets competitors walk all over them.

 

[Presbytier]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

Someone took the time to write that. That is incredible. They should be writing for the new Star Trek show.

 

[Ieldra]

LOL those 78 points he got from that post probably all that's left of AMD fanboys on r/AMD!

Probably engineered a turbo encabulator that uses hydrocoptic marzal vanes to repeatedly like his post from multiple systems

 

[OutOfPhase]

I think we all know the AMD chips have long had huge raw performance potential. Nobody ever doubted that, right? I don't mean to sound snarky, but that post reads like a drinking game. "Take a shot when they quote a % improvement number!".

The problem, in car terms, is getting it to the real wheels. NV has traditionally been very good at this, for a variety of reasons: easier (in wildly general terms) hardware to program, a ton of pre-built libraries which do a lot of work for you, and hey, if you're a prominent title, you'll get a couple of their GPU experts working on YOUR engine full time.

I really think that last part cannot be emphasized enough. It's more important the more "tweaky" your hardware is or the more unique ways it can work. Just asking devs to use it will have very limited success. Doing it for them - now it's game on.

 

[razor1]

Probably engineered a turbo encabulator that uses hydrocoptic marzal vanes to repeatedly like his post from multiple systems

AMD's next CEO in line just wrote that diatribe lol. He knows his shit, quite literally in both business and EE. If it smells like shit most likely its shit.........

 

[Krenum]

They should be writing for the new Star Trek show.

Nothing can save the new "Star Trek" Show.

 

[razor1]

I think we all know the AMD chips have long had huge raw performance potential. Nobody ever doubted that, right? I don't mean to sound snarky, but that post reads like a drinking game. "Take a shot when they quote a % improvement number!".

The problem, in car terms, is getting it to the real wheels. NV has traditionally been very good at this, for a variety of reasons: easier (in wildly general terms) hardware to program, a ton of pre-built libraries which do a lot of work for you, and hey, if you're a prominent title, you'll get a couple of their GPU experts working on YOUR engine full time.

I really think that last part cannot be emphasized enough. It's more important the more "tweaky" your hardware is or the more unique ways it can work. Just asking devs to use it will have very limited success. Doing it for them - now it's game on.

It always works for me in beer pong lol! till that one shot to many and start seeing doubles lol.

 

[razor1]

Nothing can save the new "Star Trek" Show.

exactly lol

 

[primetime]

If i can get one of these for retail price it be foolish not to get one......case one could use it for few months and sell it for profit actually.....Win/win

 

[Krenum]

If i can get one of these for retail price it be foolish not to get one......case one could use it for few months and sell it for profit actually.....Win/win

That's probably going to be the idea most people have in mind. Me included.

 

[razor1]

If i can get one of these for retail price it be foolish not to get one......case one could use it for few months and sell it for profit actually.....Win/win

If its as good in mining $ in vs power usage as current cards, it has to get to 60 mhs.

 

[Chimpee]

LOL those 78 points he got from that post probably all that's left of AMD fanboys on r/AMD!

WTF did he say AMD is intentionally letting nV keep the performance crown lol. Great they are such a generous company that gives away cards and lets competitors walk all over them.

I felt dumber reading the whole thing, gimping their own card and offering value, those two things are contradictory.... but hey, if that person wants to remain very positive about unicorn driver, more power to that person I guess....

 

[Chimpee]

Nothing can save the new "Star Trek" Show.

I am willing to give it a shot to see how it goes before knocking it.

 

[exdriver]

"If AMD have that much performance just going to waste... Why aren't they using it to Crush NVIDIA? Give them a Taste of their own Medicine!" Simple... they don't need to, and it's actually not advantageous for them to do so. While doing this might give them the Top-Dog Spot for the next 12-18 months... NVIDIA aren't idiots, and they'll find a way to become competitive; either Legitimate, or via utilising their current Market Share.

And people will somewhat accept them doing this to "Be Competitive", but if AMD aren't being overly aggressive and letting NVIDIA remain in their Dominant Position; while offering value and slowly removing NVIDIA from the Mainstream / Entry Level... well then not only do they know that they can with each successive "Re-Brand" Lower Costs, Improve the Architecture and offer a Meaningful Performance Uplift for their Consumers while remaining Competitive with anything NVIDIA produce."

 

[Snowdog]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

So Vega is super powerful, could Kick the Titan Xp's Ass. But cunning AMD, is gimping their own card (and most of their margins) because...

Their lead would only last a year or so, and they NVidia would get competitive again, and presumably take the lead again...

Wait, what? Why isn't being in the lead an advantage, even if it only lasts a year, you make more money during that year. Being second all the time, just means less money all the time.

My head hurts...

 

[ecmaster76]

Could we rename this the Vega Flaming thread? Its getting to be a trash talking echo chamber bordering on circle jerk territory

WE GET IT ALREADY

 

[Boil]

I, for one, look forward to snagging up a RX Vega 56 GPU when they drop...

 

[Presbytier]

Could we rename this the Vega Flaming thread? Its getting to be a trash talking echo chamber bordering on circle jerk territory

WE GET IT ALREADY

There is nothing wrong with letting off a little every now and then. Once we get real reveiws we will all go back to arguing over the merits of its architecture and what not. Frankly while I think it is disappointing the best they could do was keep up with a 1080 I am actually really curios to see what optimizations id tech 6 has with Vega as Wolfenstein The new Colossus seems to be being heavily optimized for it. Doom runs freakiing awsome on a 1080, so i don't feel the need to jump ship, but seeing hardware specific optimizations is always fun.

 

[Rasterizer]

Well the only reason is there are features in AMD's architecture for Vega that weren't exposed yet and if not exposed the miner programmers wouldn't be able to access them when FE was launched. But I haven't seen any updated miners for Vega FE, so..... highly unlikely. Its not like anyone outside of AMD has access to that info either at least not yet to the people that it would be relevant to.

Well, it did seem pretty odd that Vega FE seems to have only ~300 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and ETH hashrate is a completely memory bandwidth bound workload...

 

[razor1]

Well, it did seem pretty odd that Vega FE seems to have only ~300 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and ETH hashrate is a completely memory bandwidth bound workload...

Where did ya see this the FE should have 483 Gbs

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

Well, it did seem pretty odd that Vega FE seems to have only ~300 GB/s of memory bandwidth, and ETH hashrate is a completely memory bandwidth bound workload...

I think it's more latency bound then it is bandwidth.

 

[razor1]

I think it's more latency bound then it is bandwidth.

Its both, timings are definitely important but if you can get the memory clocks high enough up it is also GPU bound. It just varies.

 

[Rasterizer]

Where did ya see this the FE should have 483 Gbs

Testing of Vega FE with the Beyond 3D suite seems to indicate a significant memory bandwidth regression vs. Fiji, and as far as my limited understanding of GPUs go, Vega FE appears to be memory bandwidth bottlenecked in both ETH mining and gaming. These results struck a bunch of people as quite odd at the time, as it doesn't really make much sense to design Vega to have less memory bandwidth than Fiji, no?

I think it's more latency bound then it is bandwidth.

I'll quote another post I saw on this forum about it:

ETH mining is heavily memory bandwidth bound, to the point that incremental compute horse power doesn't really matter.

After some experimentation, here are my settings (for NVIDIA) that could make mining more "green" and prolong the life of your cards.

1. Set the power limit to 50-60%. This will decrease the GPU clock to about 1000 MHz, without affecting the memory clock. Mining speed degradation will be less than 5%, while your power bill will be cut to about half and your GPU will last 10x longer. My 1070 FEs are running at ~60 degrees Celsius and 0.8V core with this (from 82 oC and 1.05V).

2. Overclock the memory by 5-10%. Memory clock is proportional to mining rate.

In Windows, use MSI Afterburner, while in Linux, use the NVIDIA SMI tool.

I am currently getting 81 MH/s from 3 cards on Windows. Hope this helps!

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

So, why do we have a GTX 1070 outhashing the 1080 ? Clearly the 1080 has more bandwidth and compute

We ran into the same issue with the 290 using elpidia memory. Needed custom timing tables to correct it for mining.

 

[razor1]

Testing of Vega FE with the Beyond 3D suite seems to indicate a significant memory bandwidth regression vs. Fiji, and as far as my limited understanding of GPUs go, Vega FE appears to be memory bandwidth bottlenecked in both ETH mining and gaming. These results struck a bunch of people as quite odd at the time, as it doesn't really make much sense to design Vega to have less memory bandwidth than Fiji, no?

oh yeah forgot about that, not sure man, once I get one I'll test it out though!

I'll quote another post I saw on this forum about it:

Really depends on the miner, if I don't overclock my GPU core I only get 31 mhs on my 1070's, also dropping the power to 50% I can't get 1900mhz and but at 60% I can get that 1900-2000mhz , and at that mhz I get 3.5 more mhs.

 

[Rasterizer]

So, why do we have a GTX 1070 outhashing the 1080 ? Clearly the 1080 has more bandwidth and compute

We ran into the same issue with the 290 using elpidia memory. Needed custom timing tables to correct it for mining.

Again, I'll admit up front I'm almost entirely out of my technical depth here, but from what I read isn't that because of something to do with the 1080 using gddr5x vs the gddr5 of the 1070? On any given GPU, shouldn't an increase in memory bandwidth cause an increase in ETH hashrate?

 

[Digital Viper-X-]

I

Again, I'll admit up front I'm almost entirely out of my technical depth here, but from what I read isn't that because of something to do with the 1080 using gddr5x vs the gddr5 of the 1070? On any given GPU, shouldn't an increase in memory bandwidth cause an increase in ETH hashrate?

I would say that is true only when the increase in bandwidth = a decrease in latency or equal latency. Gddr5x most likely has relaxed timings to achieve higher speeds.

As we oc the memory, timings get adjusted at certain speeds, if the latency goes up enough, it will negate the bandwidth increase. I lose 1mh on the 1080 goin from +144 on the memory to +145. (Amp extreme)

 

[Captain Newmackwa]

That is actually a pet peeve of mine. There is no reason to shut off manufacture specific GPU features in games to do benchmark testing. It should just be acknowledged that it is a feature specific to a manufacture. The Witcher 3 is a great example as it uses NVIDIA Gameworks extensively in hair on people and creatures. That is an actual feature that should be discussed in GPU reviews it makes a legitimate difference in the games presentation and should not be ignored because it favors one GPU manufacture over the other. Same reason why a game that favors AMD should not be ignored; there are peole who may want to play such game and seeing how both manufactures handle said game is part of the buying proccess.

Many reviewers disable HairWorks and Physx on Nvidia hardware for an apples to apples comparison with performance measurement. There are also tests done with HairWorks on and off to determine the performance impact of the effect as well as whether the graphical fidelity improvement is worth the performance hit or not. At least that's how I understand why reviewers do it that way. AFAIK, AMD's shader intrinsics are baked into DOOM which gives GCN an inherent performance advantage and reviewers take it for what it is just like how it was with the NVAPI extensions used in Battlefield 3.

 

[ChosenUno]

So basically AMD has Fiji CFX in Vega but it's disabled because AMD feels charitable? Good lord that was a good laugh.

AMD fanboys will drum up any kind of nonsense in order to justify the hype train, and then once reviews are out and the crash happens, #waitForNextAMDGPU.

I think that guy needs to see a psychiatrist. That kind of delusional thinking isn't normal

 

[KazeoHin]

Some brilliant mind wrote this lengthy analysis of Vega, worth a read.

TLDR:

As much as I would love the world to work like this, AMD is a publicly traded company with shareholders breathing down their neck. When AMD has compelling products, their share price goes up: look at what Ryzen has done for them.

If they could make their GPUs faster, but choose not to, their shareholders would pop a f***ing vein and drag the executives out.

 

[bezant]

So basically AMD has Fiji CFX in Vega but it's disabled because AMD feels charitable? Good lord that was a good laugh.

AMD fanboys will drum up any kind of nonsense in order to justify the hype train, and then once reviews are out and the crash happens, #waitForNextAMDGPU.

I think that guy needs to see a psychiatrist. That kind of delusional thinking isn't normal

Imagine the shareholder lawsuits. CEO would be thrown out in a second.

 

[Anarchist4000]

If Vega 56 matches a 1080, why did they show Vega 64 matching a 1080 in the official amd presentation?

Because they are priced approximately the same? Makes sense to compare similar market segments.

As for the figures, 13.1tflops puts it well ahead of the Titan Xp (reference clocks). Vega is comfortably the single most powerful GPU in terms fp throughput, doesn't translate to effective performance. Those are just facts that have been verified tens of times by all the independent reviewers who benchmarked Vega FE. Tiled rasterization will alleviate memory bandwidth bottlenecks thus improving performance, in the absence of memory bandwidth constraints it will reduce power consumption. The performance numbers presented by amd (games) are using the new geometry pipeline (sans primitive shaders as those require developer intervention) so I don't see where you're coming from here.

It will also reduce the load on ROPs, TMUs, and cache as it will accelerate culling in some cases. Still need more documentation on what steps are being performed.

In my eyes all you've been doing is harping on about pretty much anything AMD does as if it's the second coming of christ, and you set ridiculously high expectations for everything, then when things inevitably turn out to be less flabbergastlingly good than

As I've been somewhat consistently posting in AMD threads, yes it would be accurate that I'm staying on topic and talking about AMD. My interest lies in upcoming technology and trends. As AMD is traditionally well ahead in regards to features and capabilities, that's what I focus on. Combine that with Nvidia keeping details private, there isn't much discussion there. Just try to explain this thread with all the AMD consumes all this power, Nvidia has better performance/watt, Nvidia supports async, DX12 benchmarks on Nvidia aren't valid, can't compare game using intriniscs because they were left out of the API since Nvidia doesn't support them.

Not sure what expectations I'm setting. Half the fun with AMD is the over the top hype that gets generated. I just crunch the numbers and arrive at a sensible conclusion. The only time that isn't the case involves someone taking the statements completely out of context, often in a manner that makes no sense at all.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. There is no need for this here or on any other forum, and were you a regular in any sort of place that you suggest you are then you would not make comments of this sort. It's not the first time you have said things like this.

No need for facts? Unbiased, educated speculation? Just about any other forum would have a much higher signal to noise than this one. Ignore half a dozen posters and 80% of the thread disappears and nothing of value is missed. Just endless repetitive posts hammering talking points about fact x that isn't true and conclusion y that has no basis in science because of unrelated context z. It's nearly all misinformation, but the reviews are good and there are some useful discussion at times.

 

[Hameeeedo]

Because they are priced approximately the same? Makes sense to compare similar market segments.

I just crunch the numbers and arrive at a sensible conclusion.

Then they would have compared the 700$ Vega 64 liquid to a 1080Ti, they didn't. They also showed benchmarks where the 1080 beats Vega 64, they also stated Vega 64 trades blows with the 1080 (not beat it). They also hid their fps counters, did blind testes with the 1080 and Vega 64. You are ignoring a lot of official information coming directly from AMD, for the sake of speculations and conjecture on your part. That's just a fanboy's wishful thinking. No number crunching is involved here.

 

[Ieldra]

Because they are priced approximately the same? Makes sense to compare similar market segments.

They said Vega 64 matches a 1080.

It will also reduce the load on ROPs, TMUs, and cache as it will accelerate culling in some cases. Still need more documentation on what steps are being performed.

the whole point is to keep data in the cache, I don't see how it will reduce the load. If rasterization was a bottleneck then lifting it will increase ROP load if anything.

As I've been somewhat consistently posting in AMD threads, yes it would be accurate that I'm staying on topic and talking about AMD. My interest lies in upcoming technology and trends. As AMD is traditionally well ahead in regards to features and capabilities, that's what I focus on.

But not hardware accelerated primitive discard, tiled rasterization, multiprojection. You went off on an ignorant tirade against 'tensor cores' on B3D in such haste that you forgot to even read what operation they were performing. Kept droning on about tensor products for the love of god.

Just try to explain this thread with all the AMD consumes all this power, Nvidia has better performance/watt, Nvidia supports async, DX12 benchmarks on Nvidia aren't valid, can't compare game using intriniscs because they were left out of the API since Nvidia doesn't support them.

What exactly is it you want me to explain about this thread? I don't follow. NV has better perf/w, supports async. Yes. And? Why are benchmarks in DX12 not valid ? I don't understand, and how can NV not support intrinsics ? They are intrinsic to the architecture, please inform yourself about what shader intrinsics are before making statements like these because I cannot take you seriously at this rate lol.

Nvidia doesnt support intrinsics, Intel doesnt support their own ISA. lol.

Not sure what expectations I'm setting. Half the fun with AMD is the over the top hype that gets generated. I just crunch the numbers and arrive at a sensible conclusion. The only time that isn't the case involves someone taking the statements completely out of context, often in a manner that makes no sense at all.

I'm sorry to shatter your alt-reality but you never arrive at sensible conclusions, you are no different from the people over-hyping shit on r/AMD; you're just better spoken and give the impression that you are better informed.

No need for facts? Unbiased, educated speculation? Just about any other forum would have a much higher signal to noise than this one. Ignore half a dozen posters and 80% of the thread disappears and nothing of value is missed. Just endless repetitive posts hammering talking points about fact x that isn't true and conclusion y that has no basis in science because of unrelated context z. It's nearly all misinformation, but the reviews are good and there are some useful discussion at times.

Your speculation is niether unbiased nor educated so you fit right in with your description of the forum mate. This is your home now.

 

[exdriver]

No need for facts? Unbiased, educated speculation? Just about any other forum would have a much higher signal to noise than this one. Ignore half a dozen posters and 80% of the thread disappears and nothing of value is missed. Just endless repetitive posts hammering talking points about fact x that isn't true and conclusion y that has no basis in science because of unrelated context z. It's nearly all misinformation, but the reviews are good and there are some useful discussion at times.

It's a rumors thread, so all that's fine, though you may not like it. Are you sure it's not 81.3%, while we are speculating with no basis in science? You pull numbers out of thin air when it suits you.

The topic is Vega, not this forum or its members. You should refrain from attacks of that nature on H and its members or find a place you like to be other than here, imho, if it's not good enough for you. I happen to like this place. I don't have a problem with you, but if you want to group me and other people into your statement and expect no backlash here's a reality check.

Back on topic I'm starting to wonder about the memory on Vega, I was poking around this issue in another thread. Interesting numbers you have there on FE.